|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
continue here 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziels_fate_was_in_th.htmlJohnny Manziel's fate was in Mike Pettine's hands, but as Browns' coach fights for survival roles appear reversed: Tom Reed BEREA, Ohio – Mike Pettine probably knew this scenario would unfold from the night the Browns drafted Johnny Manziel 20 months ago. The first-time head coach was like the dad of college-age daughters who bought a tidy beachfront condo only to see Charlie Sheen move in next door. It's been one worry after another even as Pettine's playboy quarterback has made undeniable on-field progress under his reconfigured coaching staff. For much of their time together, Pettine has controlled the fate of Manziel. Now, as the coach makes a case to keep his job in the throes of a 3-10 season, the roles are reversed. He needs a player in whom he's never completely trusted to navigate a brutal stretch drive and convince ownership to stay the course for another year. Master chef Michael Symon could not serve a dish of irony as delicious. "I don't get wrapped up in that," Pettine said Monday when asked about his future with the club and how owner Jimmy Haslam wants to see end-of-season progress. "I have more than enough on my plate. ... We are going to coach our tails off. We are going to go out and play with the same effort and focus that we played with (Sunday) and then some. However it falls out, it falls out." Pettine took a positive first step with a 24-10 thumping of the inept Niners at FirstEnergy Stadium. It marked the Browns' most complete performance of the season, highlighted by Manziel's strong outing fresh from a two-game grounding for his dishonest depiction of a recent weekend escapade in Austin, Texas. Johnny benched Johnny benched Mike Pettine demoted Johnny Manziel not just because he partied over the bye weekend when he promised he wouldn't, but because he tried to cover it up. The quarterback earned another shot in part because battered Josh McCown broke his clavicle against the Ravens and Austin Davis could not rally the team in a 37-3 loss to the Bengals. Circumstance enabled Pettine to go back to Manziel, who ended the team's seven-game losing Sunday. The quarterback made plays inside and out of the pocket, building on momentum from his effort against the Steelers, which came before his latest Pettine-imposed timeout. Manziel, who's rarely been held accountable by anyone other than the Browns coach, wasn't thrilled with the punishment. He said last week he was "forced to learn a hard lesson." His rebellious nature won't be curbed by Pettine or anybody else, but if the Browns can harness Manziel's swagger and continue the development a happy medium might – I say might – be reached. A more pressing concern, however, is what Manziel's play affords them over the final three weeks. It's hard to imagine the Browns winning in Seattle (8-5) and Kansas City (8-5) or beating the Steelers (8-5) in the season finale, especially as injuries mount. All three opponents are playing well and fighting for playoff stakes. A coach's longevity is intertwined with his quarterback's success. Nowhere is that more apparent than in Cleveland. Pettine needs Manziel to excel if the Browns have any chance in these games. If they get drubbed, the quarterback's future transgressions will be another coach's problem – here or elsewhere. Safety Donte Whitner made a plea for ownership to retain Pettine and the coaching staff, blaming the poor record on the players. It's a nice gesture, but Pettine's job status is imperiled because his defense consistently underachieved. Does anyone see the Browns harassing Russell Wilson and Ben Roethlisberger the way they did Blaine Gabbert? No, Pettine's best opportunity for survival hinges on Manziel and the offense. The quarterback doesn't have to run the table, but the Browns need a win or two with him playing at a high level. I don't see it happening, but if it does Pettine might be able to sell Haslam on the progress. The owner understands the importance of continuity and if sees his beloved SEC quarterback thriving against top-flight and desperate opposition maybe he gives Pettine's staff – with some alterations -- one more year. The coach praised Manziel's performance during a Monday conference call and defended the youngster from more outside criticism. He again lauded his preparation and work ethic, which were absent a year ago when the coach led the Browns to seven wins while dealing with myriad off-field brush fires. Pettine's issues are rooted in Manziel's behavior away from the facility, but right now his focus is on a quality showing in Seattle. "We know that this is a formidable opponent in one of the most hostile environments in the league," Pettine said. "We're going to go up there and cut it loose." The coach has nowhere else to turn. Brian Hoyer is in Houston. McCown's arm is in a sling. In Johnny Manziel he trusts. Oh, the irony.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...re-in-clevelandNFL Grades Week 14: Johnny Manziel looks like the future in Cleveland By John Breech | CBSSports.com December 13, 2015 11:42 pm ET It turns out that Johnny Football can actually play football when his coach lets him. After two weeks of keeping Johnny Manziel on the bench, Browns coach Mike Pettine finally unleashed Mr. Money Signs on the NFL this week and the decision paid off. If Sunday's game against the 49ers was an audition for Manziel, then the Browns have to start thinking seriously about making Manziel the team's starter in 2016. Johnny Football was almost perfect against the 49ers, throwing for 270 yards and a touchdown in Cleveland's 24-10 win. Manziel has now been the starter in two of Cleveland's three wins this season. Manziel's Sunday got off to a money start when he decided to autograph a $100 bill for a Browns fan. The $100 bill must have rubbed off on him because Manziel was money on the field. Johnny Football came out firing for the Browns. On Cleveland's first four offensive drives, Manziel was impressive, completing 10 of 14 passes for 135 yards. The only reason the Browns didn't win this game 50-10 is because Cleveland kept shooting itself in the foot, which had nothing to do with Manziel. Johnny Manziel was all smiles on Sunday. (USATSI) Johnny Manziel was all smiles on Sunday. (USATSI) The Browns scored 10 points on those first four possessions, which would've been more if not for a blocked field goal and a lost fumble. The impressive thing about what Manziel did is that he did it with only one healthy receiver, Travis Benjamin. Two of the Browns' top-four receivers didn't play on Sunday (Andrew Hawkins, Tyler Gabriel) and another top receiver, Brian Hartline, had to leave the game in the third quarter. Johnny Football wasn't fazed by those losses though. Manziel really only made one big mistake in the game and that came on a second quarter pass that he threw off his backfoot, across his body. You know Manziel's taking things seriously now because he was visibly upset after throwing the pick. (Note to Johnny's parents: Don't get him a Microsoft Surface for Christmas). The thing about Manziel is that when he's good, it opens up the Browns offense. Running back Isaiah Crowell is probably Manziel's biggest fan, espcially after Sunday. Since Manziel's a threat to run, the opposing defense has to take that into account and that can mean bigger holes for the running back like it did for Crowell, who rushed for 145 yards. As a matter of fact, the Browns' rushing total on Sunday (230) was their highest total since also hitting 230 yards in 2010. If Manziel wants to tighten his grip on the starting job for 2016, all he'll need to do is win one of Cleveland's final three games, which is a lot easier said than done. Over the final three weeks of the season, the Browns travel to Seattle and Kansas City, before hosting the Steelers in Week 17. If Manziel wins one of those, he should probably be named a starter for life. If Manziel does win though, Pettine could be the big loser because the front office will want to know why Manziel wasn't starting earlier in the season and why he didn't keep the starting job after beating the Titans in Week 2.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/...e-and-awarenessJohnny Manziel's growth seen in pocket presence and awareness Johnny Manziel had better results when standing in the pocket than he did on the run during the Cleveland Browns’ win over San Francisco on Sunday. That as much as anything shows Manziel’s growth as an NFL quarterback. Against the 49ers, Manziel stood in the pocket on 25 of his 31 throws. He only scrambled on six plays. In the pocket Sunday, Johnny Manziel completed 17 of 25 passes for 182 yards, with one touchdown and no interceptions. AP Photo/David Richard The numbers from ESPN Stats and Information break down this way: In the pocket, Manziel completed 17 of 25 passes for 182 yards, with one touchdown and no interceptions. Passer rating: 102.4 Outside the pocket, Manziel was 4-of-6 for 88 yards, with no touchdowns and the one glaring interception. Passer rating: 70.1 It’s a measure of Manziel’s growth that he is learning to operate in an NFL system the NFL way. San Francisco is not Seattle, Sunday’s opponent, but that doesn’t change what Manziel did. He stood in the pocket and made throws, and when the need arose, he moved around and made something happen. It’s the exact order of the process that coach Mike Pettine referred to when he discussed Manziel at halftime of the loss to Cincinnati. NFL quarterbacks succeed and have a longer shelf life with pocket presence and success. Scrambling is not discouraged, but it’s the second step in the play call. But Manziel is so used to throwing on the move from college that when he does run in the NFL, he has shown he can be effective. “He is able to continue plays from four to six, seven seconds,” tight end Gary Barnidge said on a conference call. “That is tough for a defense to cover anyone that long.” It’s interesting that Barnidge said Manziel’s ability to move makes him unique, but in the 24-10 win Sunday he didn’t move that often.( That may be the most encouraging fact about Manziel’s game. “He is improving and he is just going to keep getting better week in and week out,” Barnidge said. “The mistake before the half (the interception) is well documented,” coach Mike Pettine said. “That’s glaring. But other than that, I just thought he was in great command of the huddle. I thought he had a great sense of the plan and how they were playing us and making in-game adjustments. “Overall, he made good decisions, was accurate with the football and when he could stay in the pocket, he did and made plays, and there were times -- we all saw -- he has that special ability to extend the play and was able to do that numerous times with solid success. “Overall, I think it was a good day for him.” With Manziel always comes discussion about his off-field issues. Fair or not, it’s part of him until it goes away, or until his success on the field overshadows what he does off it. Barnidge said the coaching staff deals with things like that. The role of the players on the team is to support Manziel. And he said the players “are going to be behind him no matter what.” “We are a team,” Barnidge said. “You have to stick behind everyone on the team. You can’t just alienate certain people and say, ‘Oh, we are not dealing with you because of this, this and this.’ All together, we are a team. We are going to need everyone on the team to succeed. “When it comes to all the other stuff, that is what the coaches help with. We talk to him and we do all that type of stuff as well, but he has to hear it from the coaches, as well as from us. He is going to learn. That is everybody. Any player in general, it should be the same way.” Barnidge also shrugged off Manziel missing him on the first-half interception that led to the now-famous scene of the quarterback hitting himself in the forehead with a tablet five times on the bench. “It happens to everybody,” Barnidge said. “He is going to see it and he is going to learn from it and get better.”
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
I still don't blame the coach for benching him. He deserved it. Not for partying but for lying about it.
It takes guts to do that given the teams record and pettine chances for continued employment here.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Seen/heard a fair amount on Manziel the last couple days. Most of it positive, some glowing in that he's really turned a corner and looks like the guy, some more moderate in that there was improvement but still a long way to go, and then Merrill Hoge saying that he looks a little better but fully expect to see him suck the last 3 weeks against real defenses.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554 |
I still don't blame the coach for benching him. He deserved it. Not for partying but for lying about it.
It takes guts to do that given the teams record and pettine chances for continued employment here. I am not really sticking up for Manziel, but we don't know what was said before he left for the bye. Maybe Manziel felt like he had no other way out. Also, the point of the article is spot on, if Manziel keeps playing well, why was he not playing long ago? A good friend posed a question that I am going to use. This team, might not be big enough for both Pettine and Manziel...which one would you choose?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Does anyone see the Browns harassing Russell Wilson and Ben Roethlisberger the way they did Blaine Gabbert? No,
Ummm...Mr. Reed, we haven't played the Seahawks yet...got to wait till after Sunday to say that if you can (which I hope you can't)... Sometimes I wonder about Bozos
smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
I still don't blame the coach for benching him. He deserved it. Not for partying but for lying about it.
It takes guts to do that given the teams record and pettine chances for continued employment here. daman...I totally agree...
For all of Manziel's bad behavior from HS to A&M to the Browns...the punishment Pettine handed down was the first time Johnny was made to pay a price for his bad behavior.
Johnny has always managed to wiggle out of any real discipline without paying a price.
Pettine didn't treat rookie Johnny like anyone special, handing out punishment when necessary, but nothing too harsh.
This time though, Pettine made the punishment fit the crime, making it hurt Manziel for maybe the first time.
I seriously doubt that Manziel will disrespect Pettine again..and that is progress folks.
Last edited by mac; 12/15/15 10:49 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Wonder who are receivers are going to be this week?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Benjamin & Moore (I prefer Jennings) but like both. Gabriel might be back??? Pryor should see some action. Bowe can stay in street clothes for all I care he's just a player for us to wait when the best time to release him cap wise.
I wouldn't mind seeing Crowell as RB and us spreading out wide with Johnson 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
As much as I hate to admit it, I guess I'm going to have to back off Pet on this one. Still think Pet treated Johnny like a red-headed step child, but on this one I guess it was right.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
I am not really sticking up for Manziel, but we don't know what was said before he left for the bye. Maybe Manziel felt like he had no other way out.
peen...yes, you are sticking up for Manziel, completely excusing his lying and attempting to get others to lie for him.
No one made Johnny do that, BUT JOHNNY. He lied to his coach and was made to pay a price for that lying.Also, the point of the article is spot on, if Manziel keeps playing well, why was he not playing long ago? I can remember a discussion about Manziel's progress earlier in the year..Pettine was pleased that Johnny stayed in the pocket long enough to make one read, before taking off.
...that is why he was not playing, he needed more work to learn how to play the position of QB in the NFL.
...plus, he could not beat out McCown, so Pettine played the best QB.A good friend posed a question that I am going to use. This team, might not be big enough for both Pettine and Manziel...which one would you choose? Browns fans are about to find out just how smart Jimmy Haslam is...his record speaks for itself..he is worse than Randy Lerner was when it comes to establishing continuity.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Wonder who are receivers are going to be this week? Taylor Gabriel was a healthy scratch Pettine said Gabriel, who was cleared from the concussion protocol last week, could've played, but was inactive. "He was really just kind of an insurance policy for Travis,'' he said. "We didn't think we would have Travis early in the week. It ended up just being a numbers game and giving him an extra week. With Hartline being down, we certainly anticipate Gabe being up this week." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_indexwould think he will replace Brian Hartline and Terrelle Pryor will play again too......
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
I still don't blame the coach for benching him. He deserved it. Not for partying but for lying about it.
It takes guts to do that given the teams record and pettine chances for continued employment here. I am not really sticking up for Manziel, but we don't know what was said before he left for the bye. Maybe Manziel felt like he had no other way out. Also, the point of the article is spot on, if Manziel keeps playing well, why was he not playing long ago? A good friend posed a question that I am going to use. This team, might not be big enough for both Pettine and Manziel...which one would you choose? I'm kinda been thinking the samething. If Pet really does not like Johnny(I really don't think he does), then who goes? My vote would be Pettine because that's Jimmy's boy.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Thanks.
That was somewhat interesting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064 |
Pettine gets my respect. If this helps JFF grow up and make a pile of cash, tough love helped. Browns have been giving him breaks; hope it pays off.
Slobbering to draft a great anything but QB in the next draft.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
As much as I hate to admit it, I guess I'm going to have to back off Pet on this one. Still think Pet treated Johnny like a red-headed step child, but on this one I guess it was right. Pettine wouldn't had started JM if Josh Mc wasn't injured.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
http://www.businessinsider.com/johnny-manziel-is-one-of-nfls-best-young-quarterbacks-2015-12Johnny Manziel has gone under the radar and become one of the NFL's most exciting young quarterbacks Through 12 career games, Johnny Manziel has been viewed differently than most other young quarterbacks. Manziel is undoubtedly a polarizing figure, and his off-field antics haven't necessarily helped his reputation. However, where other young quarterbacks are often provided the excuse of being young, inexperienced, and still learning, Manziel's flaws and occasional missteps oddly seem to be noted more often. Perhaps the lens through which we view Manziel is the problem. Manziel is a second-year quarterback who's blown chances for more on-field action by taking his role lightly, such as when he was benched for partying during the Browns' bye week just a few days after being named the starter. The move cost Manziel two games as he sat as punishment, though it's worth noting that partying during a weekend off is hardly the worst thing an athlete can do or has done off the field. Looked at through a different lens, Manziel can be seen as a rookie — a player who's only played in 12 games, starting just six of them, playing in an unstable situation with a coach who isn't totally ready to commit to him. Again, while some of that has had to do with Manziel's own missteps or lack of preparation, he still hasn't played a full season, much less had much of a chance as a starter. To take it a step further, Manziel's rookie year was basically a throw-away. He played just five games, with only one full start, which went disastrously. Some of that was Manziel's own bad play, but some of it was also because of an offensive line that was embarrassed by the Cincinnati Bengals. He started the next game, got hurt early, and didn't play again. This season, Manziel was slated as the backup again. Only after Josh McCown suffered a first-quarter concussion in the season-opener did Manziel get to play. Manziel played well in Week 1, albeit in a loss, but led the Browns to a win in an efficient Week 2 performance. However, when McCown was healthy the next week, Manziel got benched, and he didn't start again until Week 9. Throwing away Manziel's second career start in 2014, in which he threw just eight passes before getting injured, Manziel's five starts have been promising, as he's shown improvement over time: Johnny Manziel startsVia Business Insider These numbers won't wow anybody, and the extra time Manziel has had over almost two seasons surely benefit him over actual rookies. But at the core, the Brows are 2-3 with Manziel as a starter and he has a 59% completion rate, five touchdowns, four interceptions, and an 84.1 passer rating. Perfectly fine numbers for a new quarterback. Compare this to Jameis Winston, who in his first five starts had a 58.3% completion rate, seven touchdowns with six interceptions, and an 85.5 passer rating. Or Marcus Mariota, who had a 66.8% completion rate, nine touchdowns, five interceptions, and 94.9 average passer rating in his first five games. Even Blake Bortles, who's sixth in passing yards and third in passing touchdowns this season, had a rough start, going 1-4 in his first five starts with a 63% completion rate, four touchdowns, and 10 interceptions last season. The Jaguars stuck with him and now he looks every bit like a starting quarterback. Again, Manziel is in his second year, meaning he's had that much more time to adjust, work with coaches, other players, and study the game. Nonetheless, at 23 years old, Manziel's finish to the 2015 season is seen as a "tryout" in the NFL, a chance to prove he belongs, while Winston, Mariota, and Bortles are are generally viewed as future franchise staples. Manziel has been knocked in other areas. His size has been listed as a weakness, but at six feet, 210 lb. (according to his NFL page), he's taller and heavier than Russell Wilson and the same height as Drew Brees. Manziel's reliance on athleticism has also been knocked, as if his speed and scrambling abilities are bad things. Instead, over a relatively short time, Manziel has improved as a pocket passer and has seemingly gotten better at extending plays to make completions. While the 49ers' defense Manziel faced in Week 14 wasn't exactly like playing the Broncos, Manziel looked poised and dangerous under center. He was able to hang tough in the pocket: Your browser does not support the video tag. Via NFL.com He's also dangerous in play-action when he has more time to pass and can use his legs more often: Your browser does not support the video tag. Via NFL.com Sure, Manziel slamming a Microsoft Surface on his head after an ugly interception was both funny and noteworthy, but the positive things Manziel did in getting the Browns their third win of the season far outweighed the bad. After the game, Manziel seemed to acknowledge that he's trying to improve upon his limited experience, telling reporters (via Cleveland.com's Mary Kay Cabot), "I've only gotten to play six or seven games. I know the number is starting to climb, but for me, these mean a lot to me. I still have a lot to prove. I feel like I'm just getting started. I'm going to continue to play, continue to fight." Mike Pettine was half-hearted in his praise for Manziel, saying he did more good than bad, although avoiding showering Manziel with praise just one game after being benched is understandable. Given Manziel's age and relative inexperience, what he's done in his limited time on the field should be seen in a positive light, much like other young quarterbacks. The Browns remain a team in transition, but committing to a 23-year-old who has a knack for keeping plays alive while improving his overall IQ and pocket presence should be a priority. If the Browns are able to surround him with a solid offensive line and real weapons at running back and wide receiver, there's no reason Manziel shouldn't be viewed as an exciting young prospect in the NFL, rather than a player fighting to keep his career alive.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Pettine wouldn't had started JM if Josh Mc wasn't injured.
I see you are saying for the last 4 games. When they demoted him and before McCown's injury they did leave the door open for him to start sometime during the season.
When we named him starter in the bye week McCown was healthy enough to start the 6 games...then got hurt. But we named Manziel the starter.
I think Pettine did the right thing and he was excited for Manziel during the last game - the one bright spot this year has been the handling of the QBs.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Wonder who are receivers are going to be this week? Sad when a total newbie at that position, I mean total as in likely hasn't ever played the position, gets the call over your 9million guaranteed mistake. I suspect TP will get the call again. I wish he would have blocked, or least got his hands on someone, during one of Crow's big runs and he was downfield but eh. Hopefully Pryor watches the tape and gets more eager next time. ... As for JF, lets hope he can get his off-field life together, because on the field he's becoming to show large amounts of improvements. Sometimes he looks so calm in the pocket, it's as-if there isn't even a game going on around him.
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 12/15/15 12:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
One game sample! One game! Novemver 28th, 2010 - Matt Cassel, 22/32, 233 yards, 4 TDs. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201011280sea.htmNovember 27th, 2011 - Rex Grossman, 26/35, 314 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111270sea.htmNovember 3rd, 2013 - Mike Glennon, 17/23, 168 yards, 2 TDs. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201311030sea.htmNovember 22nd, 2015 - Blaine Gabbert, 22/34, 264 yards, 1 TD http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201511220sea.htmIt will be very exciting if Manziel plays well. It will also mean almost nothing. In what world is 168 yards on it's own something to get excited about? Manziel has gone for over 650 yards in his last two starts, one of them against Pittsburgh. The most important thing isn't the numbers, though... I agree you can't be told much from the stat line, but we certainly can see the things that he's doing better. On the very first passing play of the game on Sunday, Manziel went to his third read and delivered an accurate ball as Pasztor was being pushed back into him, he stood in the pocket and delivered an accurate pass to the open man despite smacking his hand on Pasztor's helmet. That is marked improvement over what we saw last season. I know you won't rest until our entire roster is made up of Pac-12 players, but for me, at this point Goff is kind of "Johnny Lite."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
If Pet really does not like Johnny(I really don't think he does), then who goes? My vote would be Pettine because that's Jimmy's boy. I'm really really hoping that Manziel looks good the last few weeks, the Browns are competitive in every game, maybe even squeaking out a win or 2.. and both stay. But that's optimism, so some will call it unrealistic. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
If Pet really does not like Johnny(I really don't think he does), then who goes? My vote would be Pettine because that's Jimmy's boy. I'm really really hoping that Manziel looks good the last few weeks, the Browns are competitive in every game, maybe even squeaking out a win or 2.. and both stay. But that's optimism, so some will call it unrealistic. I hope this is the case as well. I also really think it should be.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
the one bright spot this year has been the handling of the QBs. The bright spot has been the QB play and how Josh Mc has mentored the other QB's unlike Hoyer. I'm not so sure the coaches handled it all so well. IMO bringing in Josh Mc has paid big dividends for the QB room.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
the one bright spot this year has been the handling of the QBs. The bright spot has been the QB play and how Josh Mc has mentored the other QB's unlike Hoyer. I'm not so sure the coaches handled it all so well. IMO bringing in Josh Mc has paid big dividends for the QB room. Yeah. I agree with this post. I'm not totally against how the coaches handled it, but not totally supportive of it either (if that makes any sense.) Josh has been a great addition. He seemed to be the first person there, cast and all, waiting to talk to JF or high-five him and I've not heard a single bad comment come from any player's mouth regarding Josh. He is a true lockerroom/team guy, and he's a mentor 100% opposite of Brian.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
The bright spot has been the QB play and how Josh Mc has mentored the other QB's unlike Hoyer. To be fair, McCown knows he's at the back end of his career and he knows this isn't his long term gig so it's to his benefit to be a mentor. Hoyer envisioned himself as an NFL starter, which he should, and he wasn't going to teach the new guy how to take his job. Not to mention, McCown got to work with the new and improved Manziel, Hoyer had the butthead rookie Manziel.. which I'm sure made a difference in their desire to work with him.
Last edited by DCDAWGFAN; 12/15/15 01:19 PM.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
The bright spot has been the QB play and how Josh Mc has mentored the other QB's unlike Hoyer. To be fair, McCown knows he's at the back end of his career and he knows this isn't his long term gig so it's to his benefit to be a mentor. Hoyer envisioned himself as an NFL starter, which he should, and he wasn't going to teach the new guy how to take his job. Not to mention, McCown got to work with the new and improved Manziel, Hoyer had the butthead rookie Manziel.. which I'm sure made a difference in their desire to work with him. To be fair? Hoyer will never be a team player. (Probably why he was realesed from the Patriots) Josh Mc has always been a team player
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 12/15/15 01:28 PM.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I see anything positive in mentoring and teaching and in that QB room was the players coaching themselves. ??? Am I mistaken in your meaning?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Hoyer was released because they drafted Mallet.. then Mallet was traded because they drafted Garoppolo
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
Hoyer was released because they drafted Mallet. Umm..wrong....Hoyer was retained after they drafted Mallet.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
I see anything positive in mentoring and teaching and in that QB room was the players coaching themselves. ??? Am I mistaken in your meaning? Nope.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,395
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,395 |
The bright spot has been the QB play and how Josh Mc has mentored the other QB's unlike Hoyer. To be fair, McCown knows he's at the back end of his career and he knows this isn't his long term gig so it's to his benefit to be a mentor. Hoyer envisioned himself as an NFL starter, which he should, and he wasn't going to teach the new guy how to take his job. Not to mention, McCown got to work with the new and improved Manziel, Hoyer had the butthead rookie Manziel.. which I'm sure made a difference in their desire to work with him. To be fair? Hoyer will never be a team player. (Probably why he was realesed from the Patriots) Josh Mc has always been a team player It's water under the bridge, and the guy has his faults for sure, but Hoyer's teammates have always gotten along with him for the most part. It's been that way since high school.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Hoyer was released because they drafted Mallet. Umm..wrong....Hoyer was retained after they drafted Mallet. For one year...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
I see anything positive in mentoring and teaching and in that QB room was the players coaching themselves. ??? Am I mistaken in your meaning? mccowns looking for a job coaching after he done here. jmo.... i think he was coaching somewhere in collage/highschool when the bears brought him back????
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,472
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,472 |
If Johnny plays well, I have no problem picking a QB high, and I have no issue not picking a QB high. Just pick good players.
Last edited by oobernoober; 12/15/15 02:16 PM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,985
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,985 |
Hoyer was released because they drafted Mallet.. then Mallet was traded because they drafted Garoppolo Then Mallett was released because they had Hoyer. Funny how that came full circle. But yeah, Hoyer didn't mentor Johnny because he thought he was a legit NFL starting QB. The Browns didn't think he was worth a big contract and wanted to groom Manziel.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
CFRS15, you keep saying that no matter what Johnny does over the remainder of the season, it is too small a sample size and you point to bad QBs who have strung together a few good games. But this would not be Johnny having four good games somewhere in the middle of a pedestrian career, this would be him stepping up exactly when he needed to show something. Given all of the variables on this team, and putting aside last year, he hasn't had a terrible start yet. He has gotten better with each start. And if, and it is a big if, he finishes strong, it will be much more than a random streak of good performances. It sounds like you are putting too much stock in some sort of magic sauce that Manziel has.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,928 |
Hoyer was released because they drafted Mallet. Umm..wrong....Hoyer was retained after they drafted Mallet. For one year... When BB probably noticed Hoyer wasn't a team player and not mentoring Mallet as expected.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
One game sample! One game! Novemver 28th, 2010 - Matt Cassel, 22/32, 233 yards, 4 TDs. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201011280sea.htmNovember 27th, 2011 - Rex Grossman, 26/35, 314 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111270sea.htmNovember 3rd, 2013 - Mike Glennon, 17/23, 168 yards, 2 TDs. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201311030sea.htmNovember 22nd, 2015 - Blaine Gabbert, 22/34, 264 yards, 1 TD http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201511220sea.htmIt will be very exciting if Manziel plays well. It will also mean almost nothing. In what world is 168 yards on it's own something to get excited about? Manziel has gone for over 650 yards in his last two starts, one of them against Pittsburgh. I was just pointing out how ludicrous it is to say that we know could know Manziel is the guy after one game in Seattle. Blaine Gabbert, the same Blaine Gabbert that we just faced, played well in Seattle not even a month ago. The most important thing isn't the numbers, though... I agree you can't be told much from the stat line, but we certainly can see the things that he's doing better. On the very first passing play of the game on Sunday, Manziel went to his third read and delivered an accurate ball as Pasztor was being pushed back into him, he stood in the pocket and delivered an accurate pass to the open man despite smacking his hand on Pasztor's helmet. That is marked improvement over what we saw last season. I agree that numbers are not the most important thing. I was just using them as an example because if Manziel has numbers equivalent to some of the ones I've posted above people are going to act like he's the savior. I know you won't rest until our entire roster is made up of Pac-12 players, but for me, at this point Goff is kind of "Johnny Lite." I don't care if we draft players from the Pac-12. I just see them more than any others, so that's who I say we should draft. If it is determined that another QB is better than Goff, I would prefer that player over Manziel. Last year my favorite player in the draft was Jalston Fowler.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Manziel Manziel
|
|