DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum College QBs to Watch

I suspect it's because of the 2 gap system; linemen don't really get a ton of sacks or pressures in a two gap. In a one gap 3-4 they do, but it's a bit of a guessing game for the DL.

I don't think our 3-4 has been a two-gap (Crennel/Belichik/Lebeau) 3-4. Out NT has lined up shaded in the A-gap for most of the season (like a Ryan/Bowles 3-4). That's why our D-coaches (Pettine, O'Neil, Montgomery) have continually described our D-Line as consisting of a 1-tech, a 3-tech, and a 5-tech.

We don't run a two-gap 3-4.

It would ensure us at least 2 more years of quarterback controversy.. YEAAAA!!!!!!!

Because regardless which one actually won the job initially, we aren't going to be a great team yet... so with the ups and downs that either will have, the fan base would divide, there would be constant calls for the back-up every time the starter played bad or the offense stalled...

It would be a disaster.... which is why we will probably do it.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure I trust the info garnered in the scouting process either. No one wants to be the guy who damaged a kid's career by telling the truth about what could end up being simple immaturity. So they'll dance around or fudge the truth, or outright lie to avoid being that guy. Even when there are public records, people will often minimize the behavior. Then you get players like Gilbert, or worse Hernandez, or Pac-man.

Jacoby Brissett reminds me of Jason Campbell. I think he'll be a starter for 7-10 years.

So you shouldn't ask a player if his mom was a prostitute?

You absolutely should, then 'Inside Sports' can do a 30 minute story on how he overcame the conditions of his youth to become draft eligible, great for ticket sales.

I still haven't seen any real breakdown of any QB in this draft that makes them a sure fire top 10 pick

I posted a breakdown of Jared Goff in this thread that paints him in a very positive light.

Also, it's only December.

Neither have I. Doesn't me one or two won't be good players and it might not be fair to them that every QB for the next 5 years will be given the "well he's not Andrew Luck" tag... but that's what it is.

A QB doesn't have to be Andrew Luck to be drafted first overall. He just needs to be an above-average starter. Have you guys seen the QB wasteland that is the NFL this year? We started the season with Josh McCown as our QB. Josh McCown!

I know he doesn't have to be, but since Luck was drafted, the top of every QB class has been compared to him and will continue to be compared to him and anybody who is NOT him, will be deemed less than a sure thing.


Yes, instead of parity, the NFL seems to have achieved mediocrity. There are about 4 good teams and then the drop off is significant into mediocrity.

I don't like either Goff or Cook. No way would I draft them in the first round.

Lynch has more potential, but he is a project who may or may not work out.

I haven't watched that other kid yet, he plays from some small school in the Dakota's.

I hope JM plays well and we draft some weapons for him rather gambling on an erratic passer like Goff or non-leader like Cook.

Carson Wentz. North Dakota State.

We need an instant impact stud so bad, I would definitely go D in the first and take a chance on this guy in the 2nd if we are definitely getting a QB. From what I've seen and read, that is. Time will tell...

He was a Free Agent, and hurt, at the time, and they had a Top 4 pick ready to go..

Brees also, up to that point, had been terrible for the first few years of his career, hence why they spent a Top 4 pick on a QB.

that would be an absolute best case scenario. However in following your analogy, we draft a QB this year, Manziel starts the next 2 years, starts looking much better, then we get rid of him to go with the newer guy... then Manziel goes on to win a super bowl somewhere else while we have some nice seasons but never win much.

I do think your 2 first rounders for Brees is a stretch, he had one really good year out of 5 and one decent year, two where he was not very good and his first year where he didn't play much.

If JM plays well down the stretch, I would be very upset if we drafted a qb w/our first round pick.

I think that Phillip Rivers/Drew Brees thing has been glorified, dramatized, and embellished throughout the years.

What did San Diego get in return for Brees? I seem to remember them getting nothing. I seem to remember him going to New Orleans as a free agent. I seem to remember Saban being mad as heck w/Miami's FO because they did not obtain Brees in FA.

The Browns are in desperate need of impact players. Drafting a qb w/a very high pick in the first round and then putting him on the bench in the hopes that you will "eventually" get a big payday is not sound logic. Has that EVER actually happened?

We need a pass rusher in the vein of V. Miller, JJ Watt, K. Mack, C. Matthews, etc and a dominant WR similar to O. Beckham, J. Jones, etc.

You know what's really crazy, DC? We had the opportunity to draft most--if not all--of those guys.

Again, this team is in desperate need of impact players.

Agree Vers.

When the season ends we need to decide where we stand with Manziel. There are 2 acceptable options.

1, We say we are happy with Manziel and his his progress both on and off the field. He is our Qb of the present and future. Then we go all in on him. In this case, there is no way we draft a Qb until at least the middle rounds at earliest.

2, We say for whatever reason, we don't think Manziel is our Qb of the future. In which case we look at the available Qb's and if one is even close to be worth a top 5 pick then we take him.

This makes me very sad. Especially considering how many people on this board wanted some of those guys. How is it that we weekend draftniks are consistently better than Browns GMs?

You are preaching to choir vers.. I would go a step further and say that Manziel doesn't even have to play really well. Just don't lay eggs, show that you are still working on improving in the pocket and command of the offense, show poise and be under control..

That is correct. He had a surgically repaired shoulder, and there was reportedly a lot of concern by a number of teams that he would not heal properly, and that he would never be the same. The Saints took a huge risk, and it paid off.

I seem to recall that many of the talking heads thought that Brees would never play again. His injury was really severe, and the doctor involved. James Andrews, IIRC, said that he has never seen an injury that was so severe, and that a normal man would never be able to throw again.

Let me see if I can find anything about it. Oh yeah, 11 supports when a normal reconstruction would have 3-4. Now I do remember that. (I was not that far removed from shoulder surgery of my own at that time)

Here we go:

Why Did the Chargers Let Drew Brees Go? - Bolts From The Blue
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010/2/8/1301176/why-did-the-chargers-let-drew

Now we're going to get into the severity of Brees' shoulder injury. Any injury to the throwing arm/shoulder of an NFL QB is going to have teams worried. This was a poorly-timed injury (right after Chad Pennington's career starting spiraling downwards after a shoulder injury) to a free agent QB that wanted to be guaranteed a starting spot and starter's money. Oh, and it wasn't just any old shoulder injury (emphasis is mine):

More than 1,700 miles away in Birmingham, renowned orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews watched a replay of Brees going down. "I thought, my God, what an injury," says Andrews. Four days later he examined Brees and diagnosed a rare 360-degree tear of the labrum, the ring of cartilage around the entry to the shoulder joint. During surgery Andrews discovered a deep, partial rotator cuff tear. He says the damage in Brees's shoulder joint represented "one of the most unique injuries of any athlete I've ever treated."

Andrews and two other surgeons mended the labrum with the unheard-of total of 11 surgical anchors (three or four is common) and also repaired the rotator cuff. The 90-minute procedure was performed arthroscopically--a godsend for Brees. If the doctors had had to cut through shoulder tissue, his recovery would have been prolonged by months.

Still, Brees faced an arduous rehabilitation, with long odds. "Lord, I was just hoping to give him a functional shoulder," says Andrews. "An average athlete would not recover from this injury."

James Andrew handed Brees off to Kevin Wilk, a physical therapist and clinical director at Benchmark-Champion Sports Medicine in Birmingham who has been rehabbing Andrew's patients for 18 years. "Dr. Andrews told me, 'You've got your work cut out for you,'" Wilk says. "I had never seen an injury this severe in any elite-level throwing athlete. We were in uncharted waters."

So now you're starting to see what A.J. Smith was seeing. Contrary to what some people may think, this was not a decision that was made simply because Smith wanted to bring in "his guy". The Chargers GM did his due diligence, checking with specialists (including Dr. Andrew himself) to see what the future could hold for Drew. While some doctors were very optimistic about his chances of regaining his full strength in the shoulder, many of the doctors Smith talked to gave Brees about a 25% chance of regaining full strength (which he needed, since he didn't have a lot of arm strength to spare).

Knowing that he was already paying Rivers starters' money, and with the knowledge that Brees may never again be able to be a starter in the NFL, A.J. Smith did what anybody would do. He offered Brees an incentive-laden contract that only offered about $2 million guaranteed per season (backup QB money) and told him that Philip Rivers would be back too. Basically, Smith took one look at Brees' shoulder and decided to not put all of his eggs in that one (injured) basket.

Obviously, I am not insider and wasn't even a blogger at the time this happened. I don't know exact specifics, but what is known is that Brees was offered contracts by only three teams: the Chargers, the Dolphins and the Saints. The Dolphins were coming off of a 9-7 season and were looking to upgrade from Gus Frerotte. Their coach, Nick Saban, had just finished coaching his first season and was looking like the genius he was expected to be. The Saints were coming off of a 3-13 season (that included dealing with Hurricane Katrina) and had just signed first-time Head Coach Sean Payton (and they were not Coach Payton's first choice).

Number one on Brees' priorities was being a starter. He did not want to be signed as a backup somewhere, because he was worried he'd never get a chance. Miami would not guarantee him the starter's spot, and (supposedly) barely offered him more money than the Chargers did. It seemed the Dolphins strategy for the 2006 season was to sign a bunch of these risk players that had/have potential and see who emerges. Their starters for the season ended up being Joey Harrington, Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon.

Supposedly, the New Orleans Saints offered the same contract the Dolphins did. It was still not starter's money, but new coach Sean Payton was willing to guarantee Brees the starting spot if the QB could get healthy in time for Training Camp. All it took for Brees was one trip to the devastated city to see that, if he were to regain his past form, he could make a big difference in building this city back up to it's previous heights. He decided to sign with the Saints, got himself healthy by Training Camp and the rest is history. He led that Saints team to a 10-6 record in his first year, and led them to their first Super Bowl in his fourth year.

You mean like actually commit to someone?

You sir, are out of your mind!

Have we ever ACTUALLY done that?

It's going to be different now, our entire front office was forced to read, "What Real Commitment Looks Like," by Charlie Sheen.

Thanks for the article.

FYI: My questions were redundant. I knew the answers.

Connor Cook's personality, like it or not, is reason for Spartans' success

Dec 18, 2015
Dan Murphy
ESPN Staff Writer

No one likes you when you beat them. Michigan State is learning this year what it’s like to go from the scrappy underdog to the power team people root against. No one has felt that more than quarterback Connor Cook.

The numbers are well known by now. The Spartans have won 36 games in the past three seasons, 34 of them with Cook starting. The wins have come with a few mementos to fill up the fifth-year senior’s trophy case: a Rose Bowl MVP, a golden statue of Johnny Unitas, and a couple of Big Ten championship MVPs. Well, technically only one of the conference awards made it onto Cook’s shelf. The most recent one he gave to his offensive linemen.

“We have it on a little shelf at the top of our room,” left tackle Jack Conklin said. “He said, 'This game wouldn’t have been won if it wasn’t for you guys.' I think that goes to show his character right there. He’s not a selfish guy.”

Most discussion has been about how Cook received that trophy, not how he gave it away. The in-the-moment snub of Big Ten legend Archie Griffin when accepting the award was a blip on the radar, sufficiently squelched by a postgame public mea culpa and a phone call to Griffin. The story has lingered, though -- not because anyone really believes there is anything more to it, but because it provided a chance for many who are a little put off by Cook to air their grievances.

Cook’s teammates didn’t vote him to be one of the team’s three captains. He can be salty in front of a camera. His confidence teeters in the direction of brash. It’s natural that at some point this would cause a problem.

What’s important to remember is this is the same Connor Cook that helped build the Spartans’ recent run of success. His personality isn’t a reaction to the awards or fame he’s achieved, it’s the reason those things have come to be. In an age of entitled quarterbacks, he isn't one of them. Cook was the same guy as he worked his way up from being an under-recruited prospect out of a small school in Hubbard, Ohio. He was just as self-assured as a first-time starter two years ago.

In just his third career start, Michigan State lost a close game to Notre Dame in which Cook was pulled in the fourth quarter. After the game he was his typical, honest self.

"I was a little disappointed, you know?" Cook Cook told reporters in South Bend. "I don't know why they pulled me. They said I was a little inaccurate, but I would have wished that the coaches had faith in me to keep me in there in a critical situation like that."

Yes, Cook has an edge. But without it he wouldn’t be Connor Cook. And without Cook, Michigan State wouldn’t be Michigan State -- at least not the version headed into a game against No. 2 Alabama with a trip to the national championship game on the line.

Coach Mark Dantonio has said multiple times his quarterback is an integral part of Michigan State’s ability to avoid hitting a plateau during the past three seasons. It’s not just his talented right arm that has kept the Spartans moving upward. Cook’s attitude matches his coach’s, and together they embody the defiant confidence that is the identity of their program.

It seems odd to be dissecting Cook’s personality in terms of the NFL draft with the College Football Playoff still ahead of him, but that’s where the conversation has shifted. ESPN’s Todd McShay reported earlier this week that while most of what he hears about Cook is positive, some scouts have concerns about his character. The pre-draft quarterback scrutiny has reached new levels of irony when the manner in which a player accepts a trophy for being the most valuable part of his team raises questions about how he might affect future teams.

Whatever Cook's doing, it’s working. He is a winner. Does how he gets there really matter?


http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...partans-success

I like Lynch and Goff , but do not see either as a top 10 pick ! PS ; neither is Cook !

"We had the opportunity to draft most--if not all--of those guys.

Again, this team is in desperate need of impact players."
=======================================================

Therein lies the failure of the Browns.

When you look at the number of picks and how high some of the picks were; then cross reference the players that have been available to the Browns the failures are almost inconceivable .

How many teams in NFL history have had multiple good QBs on their roster?

Off the top of my head -- the 49ers with Montana and Young, the Chargers with Brees and Rivers, and the Browns with Anderson and Quinn. But that's it really.

Is there a chance that we're just seeing a hypercompetitive 22 year old trying to find the delicate balance between friendships and being hypercompetitive?