DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Case for Keeping Them

thanks for the chuckle!!!!

Glad your amused. Now tell me your story.

What a stupid thing to say.

Will Smith is the person I look to for advice.

I agree.

j/c

All I know, if Haslam is planning to blow it up, he better do it quickly and bring the big boy wallet. I don't think available talent in the GM pool is plenty neither is head coach. Tennessee and maybe Detroit will attract the best HC. Teams hired GMs left and right the last few years. I can't imagine what is left.

In the end, fans who want all new better be prepared for worse. The roster is pretty raw risky for any good GM to want the job.

Maybe Haslam hires a consultant helping him better understand football operations. This could make things ugly in a political sense.

Anyway you slice it I simply don't see anything good coming out of it. My gut says stick with it hoping these two learned from their mistakes.

The situation between Farmer and Pettine seems to be untenable. One has to go.

All I am saying be prepared for worse. If one or both are let go, it will cost Haslam a lot for maybe lessor qualified.

Odd response DC. Were you following the thread that lead to cfr's post?

Did you hear the sound when that went right over your head?

LOL. Man, haha, do I feel dumb.

Doh!

That was my da-mans-hot moment of the day.

Sorry Daman.

Hahahahaha!

A case for keeping the coaching staff is beyond logic. The Pettine mantra is the talent is not good enough. Tell me if you have heard this before, McCown gives us the best chance to win. How about this one? Gilbert cannot play his way onto the field in practice. How about West is immature and a locker room cancer? Love the Bowe is beneath Jennings, Moore, and Pryor on the depth charts. Who honestly believes that? How about the poor first season of Shelton and Erving? Firing an OL coach because his actions do not fit the Pettine "play like a Brown" slogan. My favorite, he lied to me and therefore I am making Manziel the 3rd string QB. How immature can a man be? To ignore one instance, okay. To ignore all of them? Not to mention Mayle was not as good a Pryor in training camp? This coaching staff has made horrible personnel choices and questionable on the field choices. I try to find a reason to keep them around. The best I have heard is to keep the OC as the offense has gelled somewhat but even that.... If you want to keep the OC, make him the HC, let him hire his own OC or be the OC himself, fire Pettine and Oneal and hire someone veteran to help your young HC. Let Farmer do his job with drafting. Honest evaluation of the last two drafts cannot claim Farmer failed.

Cute,, Really cute

It HAS to be Farmer...doesn't it? There CAN'T be any way Haslam allows this knucklehead to run another draft...right?

If Farmer is kept and Pettine is let go...I think my head will explode. I don't know if I can take this anymore. Really.

Wait, thats not how I'm supposed to read your username?

My whole life is a lie..

Yep...Because looking at success from the outside in is what you do.

Not worth the trouble

It has to be both really. I fear that it will only be Pettine.

If people fear that after firing everyone we won't be able to get anyone good..

What if we only need a HC, and that person then knows they have to work with Farmer?

I don't know what head coach worth anything would want to come in and work for the GM who texted down to the sideline to "help" the coaching staff and who feuded with the previous head coach. Steve Sarkisian is looking for a job, he would fit in perfectly with Manziel.

If Farmer is still around, then we will be in the situation the Raiders were in several years ago (during the Shell, Kiffin, Cable, Jackson years).

The credibility has to start from the top down.

Can you expect to go find a good GM and tell him he can't hire his own coach and he has to stick with your pre-selected QB who has question marks? Is any potentially "good" GM going to want to start off under those circumstances?

Agreed. Unfortunately, that likely means if only 1 stays, it's Farmer. For some reason, I think Haslam is going to give Farmer and Pettine one more season to show improvement. Just a hunch or should I say "gut feeling"!

I think the only kind of credible person we are going to get is going to be a person who wants full control over personnel and will be the coach. It's really the only thing we have to offer.

It's extremely rare that that a HC/GM works out.

I'm still gun-shy of that setup after Butch. (Gad, that was a long time ago...)

I agree.

It has worked in Seattle, but Carroll is a different type of person.

Well...if we can't keep just one...then I am in favor of BOTH going because I simply do not trust Farmer. In a pass happy league...passing on WRs is simply unacceptable. To think of WHO this team might have had at WR just pisses me off to no end.

I hope you are right... People keep talking about how Manziel is playing for his future the next few weeks, I have to believe that O'Neil is coaching for his future now too.

Nick Saban is the only person that really makes sense in that role.

If he had trusted his gut instead of his doctors Miami would of signed Drew Brees, and the entire football landscape would be different.

Me too. I'm also gun-shy of hiring a first-time GM and putting him in charge of all football operations, as is Farmer. It's obvious to me that the sideline texting/interfering and his high round draft choices dictate he is not GM material let alone one to be in charge of everything football with an accountant/PR man as his boss.

If we can't get Saban I'm all about getting a VP of Football Operations and let him decide the fate of Farmer.

If he keeps Farmer then they decide together on Pettines fate.

If he cans Farmer then he hires his own GM and the two of them work together to hire a HC. You can't saddle a new GM with a HC not of his choosing. Who would take the job? And if someone did how long before we get a new HC? Another quick reboot.

I really don't get this line of thinking. At all. I hate bringing it up w/you, but there seem to be a lot of posters saying the very same thing.

Have you followed NE at all?

I think the key is getting a GM that suits the coach, not the other way around.

People looooooooooooooove the exceptions.

I'll bite:

McCown: "yeah, but he didn't win"... Our QB position regardless of who's been on the field has produced pretty consistently this season. There is absolutely nothing to support the opposite statement that McCown DOESN'T give us the best chance to win.

Gilbert: It's not that he CAN'T play his way on to the field, by any accounts he just doesn't care. I really think putting him in at KR was an attempt by the coaching staff to spark some interest in the kid.

West: We don't seem to be any worse off without him...?

Bowe: I believe it because he's still not on the field. Why is it so hard to believe that guys like Moore, and Jennings, etc actually work harder than Bowe? It's not like the concept of undrafted or late round guys working their way in to the line up is unheard of... (Crow, Gabriel, K'Waun...)

Mayle: Weren't there reports that the kid was up and down during camp? Had problems catching consistently? The only knock on Pryor that I recall was his lack of experience. And in the end, neither guy made the roster Week 1, so the comparison is kind of moot anyway.

Manziel: Poor, poor Johnny. I guess if Pet is a bad daddy, then it stands to reason that Flip and O'Connell are as well right? I mean, do you REALLY expect us to believe that Mike Pettine is just SOOOOOO petty and small, that he benches Johnny for NO other reason than to stick it to Farmer, to Haslam, to Flip, to O'Connell, to the team, to the fans, to Swagger?

Funny, no one is claiming Pet is petty and small and on an ego trip because he's not playing Gilbert (incidentally, wasn't that a guy he was high on Draft Day?)...

I don't know, maybe Pet is being petty by playing all of Farmer's other draft picks...

Sorry man, I'm just not buying the "Pettine is holding Johnny back" nonsense because there is nothing to support that at all. I'm not ready to believe that 10 weeks of rehab for an unknown issue is the only reason for Johnny's improvement this year. If Pet was as hands off with him as he was last year, I don't think it's far fetched to believe Manziel wouldn't be anywhere near where he is now.

Have you not noticed the pattern here: Manziel not playing because of maturity issues, Gilbert not playing because of maturity issues, West not playing and ultimately traded because of maturity issues... he's not being picked on, he's not being used so Pet can give Farmer the middle finger. In fact, there's more proof the opposite is true if for not other reason than Pet has spent much more time dealing with Manziel than he has with any of the other problem children. If he was sticking it to Farmer he would have buried Manziel at the bottom of the QB chart day 1 and left him there until he was forgotten about.

It's probably past time to put this baby to bed??

I don't think its as much of an exception as you may think. Maybe on the front end, with the initial hiring and all.. but let's look at the teams where the GM picked the coach and have been together for say, 5+ years. do you really think that the GM is still dictating the agenda? Are guys like Tomlin and Harbaugh dancing to the tune of their respective GMs OR have things gotten to a point where their GM's come to them in the off season and say "Mike, John... what do you need?"

Obviously you want to have a good working relationship between the GM and coach. That doesn't mean they should be the same person.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. VERY few peoples seem to be able to pull that off and honestly I wouldn't be comfortable with that unless we had a very well established (here) and successful coach.

Right, Versatile Dog was pointing to the Patriots as a place where the is also the coach. That is the exception.

My bust. I thought he was holding it up as an example of a GM supporting the HC vs the other way around. I don't really keep up with any other teams so I'm admittedly ignorant on subjects relating to anyone else.