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You mean like WR & LB?

I'd agree with you if QB wasn't much more important than all the other positions.

I think he's talking about backup center.

I don't totally disagree with that but I think we need to re-examine our preseason expectations. Before the season it was generally accepted that our defense should be fairly stout, our running game should be ok, and our passing game was going to struggle a lot because of the McCown/Manziel combination and lack of a big time playmaker at WR...

Well since then our passing game has exceeded expectations while our running game and defense have been, for the most part, well below expectations... so just because our passing game hasn't sucked like we thought it would and it has been overshadowed by deficiencies in rushing and defense, does not necessarily mean our passing game is "good"..

We have put up a fair amount of yards, but we are still 21st in total offense and 29th in scoring... some of that has to be on the QB doesn't it?

I don't know, I think the whole "minimizing the QB position" has been working out well, don't you?

Man, I don't know what happened that this team ended up being a mirror image of everything it was supposed to be coming in to the season. Bizzaro world I guess.

It's a Rorschach test. If Johnny finishes strong, people are going to say:
1) It proves he should've been playing all along.
2) It means nothing because it is a small sample.
3. Pettine should be fired for holding him back.
4) Pettine's tough love is the reason he finally "gets it."

LOL...........that's both funny and true.

Again, I hope Manziel plays well and we don't draft a qb w/our very high pick in the first round.

This team is in desperate need of impact players. We need a larger WR who can put up big numbers each week, take it to the house on any single play, and be a reliable threat in the red zone. There is a reason our red zone offense is so bad. It's because we don't usually run the ball down there and our smurf receivers aren't good at getting position or running the ally-oop type of plays in the back corner. I would guess that both Barnidge and Hartline get more targets in the red zone than the other guys because of those reasons.

We also need a dominant pass rusher who demands attention in every opponent's game plan and can still make big plays despite drawing so much attention.

If we get a big time pass rusher and a big time WR, it would amaze people how much better some of these other guys would look.

I agree. Im so tired of taking QB's in the first round.

Of course those are the things people are going to say, based on their preconceived notions going in...

But the only ones that will be right will be the ones that agree with me.

Aren't some of those things true? I don't get what's wrong with saying what's true.

How many versions of the truth can there be?

1 and 2 are contradictions of each other as are 3 and 4.

If Manziel plays well, I'm starting to lean on hoping Haslam lets everyone return, they commit to Manziel, and draft BPA.

If that happens, 1-4 will be irrelevant anyway. It won't matter how we got here. It will be about how do we move forward.

The next two games will tell us the most about how much Manziel has improved. I hope he lights it up and shows he is worthy of all the headaches. Either that or fails so bad the Browns have no choice but to upgrade at QB if it's even possible with this crop coming out this year.

I'm happy to see you're starting to come over to my side of things.

Welcome.

From The Big G:

1) It proves he should've been playing all along.
2) It means nothing because it is a small sample.
3. Pettine should be fired for holding him back.
4) Pettine's tough love is the reason he finally "gets it."



I don't think they contradict each other at all. It can be true that both Manziel should have been playing all along and it can be true that his play late in the season is too small of a sample to move forward with him. In fact, I would argue that Manziel should have played earlier so that we would have a bigger sample.

Also, I don't know if Pettine can be fired for holding Manziel back (he can be fired for many other things though), but he definitely should have started him sooner so that the team could have a better idea of what he is. Furthermore, I don't know if it is true or not, but one could argue (if Manziel is successful) that getting "put in his place" helped him out a lot.



I don't think Manziel can do enough on the field this season to convince me that he should stick around (especially when I think there is a very good QB available for us to pick), but I understand a person who thinks that.

I agree with you that if Manziel is the guy we should let everyone return. First, Manziel changing offensive systems for the third time in three years would be very hard. Second, we shouldn't hire a coach and/or a GM and tell him, "You must have Manziel on the team."

lol what good QB do you see being available? I just see a bunch of avg joes. Lynch would be interesting but I hear he is staying in college so who knows.

Goff is very good. I don't think he is as good as Winston or Mariota, but I would take him over every QB from the Bortles/Manziel/Bridgewater/Carr draft.

So you believe Johnny is a franchise QB? You think he is a first guy in last guy out type player? We should bet the future on Johnny?

Man, that's not the guy I see. I see a guy that will do just enough to get by. Not one iota more. I see a guy that thinks his natural ability will save him in any situation. People compare him to Drew Brees and Russell Wilson. I think he's more like Vince Young. A natural athlete with a two cent head. He may win some games, but unless he has a SERIOUS attitude adjustment he will never take a team to a SB. Johnny also reminds me of another Browns player. Meathead. Entitled A-holes.

If there is a QB at the top of the draft that IS a first man in last out type and he can spin it? I say take him. Nothing wrong with having another QB. Not like one stud WR was going to make this a good team anyway. Now, if there was an ELITE pass rusher there that would give us 15+ sacks every year? THEN I'd be open to looking for a QB in the second round.

Peace

Oh and Merry Christmas Vers. Hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday season man.

I thought I said this:



I said................."I hope........"

Oh, and Merry Christmas to you, Spirit. I hope you are feeling better.

I agree w/you. I am not impressed w/the qbs in this draft. Lynch has a huge upside, but he is risky. Goff and Cook look like journeymen qbs to me. They don't compare to the class that JM came out with.

Lynch looks like Manziel with less talent, the rest are meh..don't pop out like the Manziel, Bridgewater, Carr draft class. Big gamble on any of them, if Manziel looks good the rest of the season I say stay with him. JMHO

Lynch looks nothing like Manziel. If you ask me, Lynch reminds me of Cam Newton when Cam was coming out. Will Lynch work to develop like Cam did? Who knows. Is Lynch as Charismatic - doubt because few people are.

And this is why Pettine has had to handle Manziel the way that he has. I believe that Pettine sees potential for greatness in Manziel but knows that potential will be lost if Manziel doesn't learn to take his job seriously and put in the work that needs to be done.

There are no Franchise QBs in this draft class, period.

I doubt that is true - what is more accurate is that there is no sure fire "Andrew Luck" or "Peyton Manning" type franchise QB.... I'd be surprised if there isn't a Tom Brady like players somewhere that gets taken in the mid rounds and out performs all expectations. The chances of landing 'that guy' is slim to none. Even less if we still have Farmer in the FO

There are plenty of "franchise" QBs that are not the best QB in the league. If we drafted a QB and he turned out to be as good as Flacco, Matt Ryan (pre-2015), or Eli we'd all be very happy.

And the jury is still out as to if Manziel can be that guy. My position has evolved, and will probably continue to do so. Right now I'm thinking don't go after a 1st round QB, let Johnny continue to prove out. If we draft a QB, let's look at Jones who has the tools but needs time to learn (if he can) to be an NFL QB. Letting him learn while Johnny proves out might be the best path forward. The problem would be with all those who expect and insist on instant results.

P.S. I wouldn't take Jones before the 4th. If someone else wants to invest a higher pick on such an obvious project, more power to them.

Draft a QB with the first pick, make sure Manziel is not on the team if that happens. That's where I'm at right now.

Should we draft a QB in the 1st round, then JM has to go. I don't see any way the two could co-exist. Keep McCown as the mentor (again)...

Some are all giddy with the thought of having a shiny new toy at QB, tough for them
that JF is going to be our No. 1 next season.

I think you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Okey dokey, we shall see.

Indeed we shall.

Absolutely.

Draft the kid from NDSU in the 3rd or 4th round if he is there. Develop him for a couple seasons and then make him your QB if Manziel has not taken the Browns to the promised land. Drafting a QB in the first round without getting a real good look at what you have is just rinse and repeat of the same old, same old. Anyone who wants continuity in the organization cannot rationalize drafting a QB in the first round and still have claim to credibility.

The love affair w/the qbs in this draft boggles my mind.

Only the Browns would be stupid enough to let JM go and draft a dud like Goff, Cook, or another project in Lynch.

Only the Browns would be stupid enough to rely on a QB who is an immature, alcoholic who has made repeated dumb decisions since college and not draft a potential franchise QB like Goff or Lynch.

Yes draft another spread QB. That is a good idea. When neither is as good as Johnny was when he was in college. Fire the coaches bring in new coaches and when these new QB's struggle because it is a much longer learning curve to play NFL QB coming from a spread offense then in 2 years we will do it all again. Been there done that.

Johnny has improved and is showing signs of turning the corner. This team needs weapons on the outside and a pass rush. Draft Bosa in the 1st.