DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum All the Cards are on the Table... Your Move Jimmy

The cards are on the table and it all comes down to Jimmy

We can all assume he has been in constant contact with his buddy Sexton for at least the past 3 weeks. He has some idea if there’s a possibility of hooking a big fish.

My opinion is that he realizes he has run a very poor, low grade, NFL business model.

He needs to clean house - - to some degree, literally. Let everybody other than Business Boy and the Quarterback Coach go. Strip and clean Berea down to the core, literally put a new bucket of paint on it. Bring in all new people.

We can count on a few things:

He will have to overpay if there is any chance of bringing in one of the big guns. Minimum 2.5 million dollars over the Leagues top salary, per year.

Probably more.

If he is working through Sexton to get somebody like Gruden or Saban, I believe it will take as much as 10+ million per year. Of course, if either one of them are willing to take the job, the amount that Jimmy would have to pay is chicken feed. Chicken feed next to how much he will lose if he doesn’t improve the way he runs this organization. 10 million a year for a coach who turns this around would be a bargain. By simply getting on TV more, he could make 10 million in jersey and accessories sales in two weeks. Money shouldn’t even be a consideration for him when it comes to bringing in professional people - - professional people.

To me, the interesting angle I could see being played is that those two know if they came in an turned it around, the respect they would gain by their peers, the game, the media, everyone in the NFL would be off the charts.

Respect, money, and to some degree “legend” status. Their status in football history would skyrocket and they know it. Both those guys have huge egos and there would be something attached to being the guy who came in and got it right - - Who re-built the Cleveland Browns. One is from Ohio and the other coached here during the …

They know.

If they were to come in and turn it around it would be huge for their legacy. Just like the LeBron thing. He figured it out, he sees it.

Respect

If it wasn’t for this angle I wouldn’t give Jimmy much of a chance, no matter how much money he would throw at them. That seems like our only chance. Jimmy has shown time and time again, when it comes to the NFL, he hasn’t been able to close the deal. He can’t close.

We have to appeal to their emotions (along with 10+ mil), their feelings concerning their legacy. They would have to want to do this. Not settle.

Farmer gets his #%* kicked by other GM’s, Pettine gets his *&%$ kicked by other coaches, and Jimmy gets his *&^% kicked by other owners.

Jimmy knows this. He can control whether he puts more skin and effort into the game. He has to be confident he can improve. Improve on the job by learning from his mistakes. Farmer, Pettine? Time for them to move on.

This may be Jimmy's last shot of re-building before his reign slides permanently into decline.

So, where are we at? When Jimmy lets Farmer and Pettine go, its all on him. He got it wrong with Banner and it created all this mess. Its time where he can re-brand the whole deal and make better personnel choices. Is he willing to overspend and give up control? Is he able to close a deal with real, talented, professional, NFL people? Can he re-build it? Can he hook the guy who will re-build the pure football part of it?

NFL apparel is split between all the teams. The Browns won't make much more money there. The only extra he might make would be the retailer profit at any retail outlets he runs, such as the stadium team shop.

Come on Ol, he's been the owner of the Browns for only 2.5 seasons (by the end of this season).

He's not shown much of anything that every other owner hasn't.

Lots of other owners have failed before they finally succeeded. The prize doesn't only go to the swift, but rather to those that keep running.

He needs a lot more time. And he's paid a hefty price for that time.

Hopefully, Haslam has learned that the coaching carousel leads to a dead end loser. Can't make filet mignon when given ground meat. Farmer must go and NOW.

On a side, wouldn't be disappointed if O'Neil went with him. Others stay.

There are rumors around Alabama football that if Saban wins his 5th national title this year that he might be looking to move on to his next challenge. Univ of Texas is reportedly ready to offer the moon, but there's also talk that Saban is tired of the recruiting grind. It might be worth a try to make an outrageous offer to Saban after the college playoffs.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2607074/alabama...-as-head-coach/

... Can you get Saban

Then yes, you move heaven and earth.

Otherwise everybody looking for major change will be posting their 1-15 predictions for 2016 because we will only be making coordinator and position group changes.

There is little evidence to suggest the group won't get year 3.

Who's going to be the GM if you get Saban? Anyone that comes in will no doubt be a puppet to him.Who'd want that arrangement? LOL, funny thought, how about Lombardi

One of the "slappys"

Atlanta has to be dumping them ... Right ???

Saban will have complete control. I believe that's the only way he'd accept the job.

He'd likely pattern himself like the New England organization. Saban would control the draft/FA and be the coach. He'd have others who would help in whatever capacity he feels he needs.

Which, in my opinion, could be disastrous. It's not like another model has worked in Cleveland (which is more about people than model) but I just have never seen a coach having complete control work effectively outside of Bill Belichek.

People said that the last time when we fired Chud. And if he gets it wrong, they will say it the next time he makes a change. He's the owner, he has until the day he dies to try to get this right.

How many times since the advent of Free Agency has that actually worked. I can only think of Belichick where it has worked very well.

Holmgren was a flop as GM/HC, while he never actually had both titles, Mangini was a flop, Maybe the other success was Bill Parcells, but when in both positions, he didn't win a superbowl and let's face it, that's the definition of success in the dual role.


Anyone else?

Just another thought on Parcells, when he was the GM of Miami, he didn't do such a terrific job either. The man was a great HC. No question about it. But as a GM, nope. Not the right guy.

I'd say the odds of Saban being successful as HC/GM are not in his favor. It's a tough job. And remember, he wasn't all that successful as HC of Miami.

If the dolphins GM would have allowed him to sign Drew Brees as he wanted, he might have had a little more success lol

I will do it, money seems OK. I will be ignorant for half the money.

Just wondering...........would you rather have a another "no name up-and-comer" as our GM and give him power over the roster?

I think there are more examples of coaches who had a lot of power in the organization than many of us are aware of.

I am not trying to change your opinion, but I believe bringing in Saban is the best move we can make.

I certainly wouldn't. Now I'm not one who has a preference as to whether it's the HC or GM that has the final say on personnel, but what I will say is that I want which ever one of those two who has that power, they need experience and both the HC and GM must be on the same page, building with the same concepts and goals in mind.

From my point of view, what we have now is a GM who has trouble getting the talent that fits within the system Pettine wants to run. He has trouble spotting top talent in the draft and when it comes to the O, they certainly don't seem to be on the same page.

That's not something you can build on.

pit you know me so does vers damn and eoa you guys know me I have quite posting because over the yrs I have had 10 of thousands of post whipped out because of a computer click. I have started the game day thread and the countdown thread. Just as old62 and hotyoungturk after me as I gave them my blessing to continue. I have no desire to continue to fight for my beloved Browns. I have my 64 championship. I watched it though in black and white I watched it.these are my Browns and it is damn time you get behind them. You do have to get behind all their moves. No but support them including Johnny. I think he could be a BIG Winner. Put bias aside.

+1
I try not to really criticize or congratulate Haslam on things just yet because I don't know what business model he is using and trying to build. After a decade and a half of bad organization I think people are fooling themselves believing it would all run like purring kitten after 1 season.

If Saban is tired of the recruiting grind, Then would an offer of having complete control GM / HC be an appealing offer to Nick ? Or would, just come in and be HC and not worry about anything else be more appealing to him.

I'm reading where people are saying he would want full control, then I read that he's tired of the recruiting grind.

I'm taking it as Nick getting older, Nick wanting less stress.. So wouldn't having full control be a lot more stress, then having a good GM he can work with to lighten the load ?

I think it has more to do w/this:

Saban might become available if he wins another national championship because he would have proven himself to be one of the all-time great collegiate coaches and it bothers him that he did not achieve success in the NFL. Some people have a burning desire to be the best in everything they do. I believe Saban is one of those people.

I gave the negatives to bringing in Saban, but of all the folks that are out there, he's probably the best for us.

Thoughts:

1. I doubt he comes here
2. Who's the GM that will come in knowing he's second fiddle to Saban

As for if I want a "no name up and comer", I would guess that if you bring in Saban, I doubt you have much of a choice. But no, if I had my druthers, I'd want to get a guy that's been there and done that but isn't over the hill. Trouble is, I can't really think of one.

You're right....Saban probably won't come here. It's a long shot.

He would want full control if he did come here. I suspect our organization would be set-up much like New England's is because as you probably remember, Saban was Belichick's defensive coordinator when both were w/the Browns.

Our "GM" would probably be someone like Scott Pioli [not sure if I spelled it right.] He had the same type of role w/BB in New England before moving to KC. He's had his ups and downs, but was a good fit w/BB because he got Bill the types of players that Belichick wanted.

I have to admit that it gives me pause that he was shut out by a Romeo Crennel led Browns team...

Agree 100% !

I really don't know all the options out there - and I am probably talking from a shallow knowledge base when it comes to viable GM's and HC options.

I agree that keeping Pettine is more appealing to me over a no-name "up and comer". And I agree Farmer just can't be here next year. Certainly not here in the same capacity.

My Christmas wish - Sean Peyton and if by some miracle Peyton Manning doesn't have a QB role in the NFL next year, then I want him as part of the Browns F.O.

I'd take Gruden. I am not sure how I feel about Saban. His stints in the NFL have been brief and I don't want a 2 year tenure from my next HC which is what I fear out of Saban.... I do think Saban would want full control and GM responsibilities, because he knows that as the HC, he lives and dies by the talent his GM supplies him, as someone pointed out. He wanted Brees in Miami, didn't get him and Brees has been among the top tier QB's ever since.

The part about being tired of the recruiting grind was speculation from the article I posted the link to. Saban strikes me as being a little like Belichick; a football equivalent to a "gym rat". My impression of him is that he's the type who wouldn't consider watching film 'til 10PM to be work. But when it comes to taking the Alabama private jet to all parts of the country to visit HS seniors, to sit in their living room and be grilled by his parents ... I could see that getting old in a hurry, especially at this time of year when he's trying to prepare for MSU. The link below is to an article about Alabama recruiting, which happens between Dec 1 and Feb 1. It says that in the 2014 offseason, Saban made 53 recruiting trips, many to Alabama, Louisiana, Ga, Fla, but also as far as San Francisco, Minnesota, and New Jersey. I don't know Saban, but like I said, he seems more like a guy that would like to be holed up with his staff evaluating players and games rather than glad-handing HS recruits and their parents.

Anyway, here's the link to article about UA recruiting flights :

http://www.nola.com/sec/2014/07/sec_recruiting_records_reveal.html

Yeah, Pioli is the kinda guy that acts well as second banana. But can't seem to carry the water himself. So that might work.

You might remember that Pioli was one of the "Slappys" under Belichick back then. Just like Mangini. Pioli has been groomed from the ground up so yeah, I could see that.

I do not know how the relationship is between Saban and Pioli.

Either way, the key is Saban.

Yeah, he was one of the "the Slappys." LOL......that cracked me up.

I remember seeing a documentary on I think the NFL Network where all those guys from the Browns in the early 90's were looking back. Guys like Savage, Pioli, Mangini. all had some seriously funny stories.

Saban might be great, but if he wants to move to the NFL then I am guessing he will have other [better] options than going to Cleveland.

As discussed in other threads, the Dolphins, Colts, Titans, Chargers, Giants, Saints, 49ers, and/or Browns will be looking for a head coach.

The Dolphins are not an option for obvious reasons, but here is how I'd rank those situations:

1. Colts
2. Giants
3. Titans
4. Chargers
5. Saints
6. 49ers
7. Browns

Some of these will not be willing to give Saban full control. All would be willing to pay him. We have very little chance.

Those rankings could change by the end of the year.

I'm not at all sure where I read it, but Saban was once quoted as saying that had he been able to get Drew Brees in Miami, he might still be there.

If I am remembering that correctly, he's clearly saying that if he had a QB, he would still be there.

So, knowing that, where do you rank the Browns now?

I go like this:

Colts (because of Luck)

Titans (because of Mariota)

Browns (because of Manziel if he proves to be of value by the end of the season, if not, all bets are off.)

I'd say the Saints are out because the Brees of yesterday is nearing the end.

I'd say the 49'ers are out because they don't have a QB. Gabbert isn't the answer and Kap, well, I just don't know what's up with him. He hasn't been the same since they changed coaches.

I'd say the Chargers are out because there is no guarantee they keep Rivers. Lock him up and they move into 3rd place on my list. Maybe, only because he is also closer to the end of his career than he is to the beginning.

Just a lot of guessing of course.. No real facts to deal with.

I agree about the Dolphins.

And I don't believe the Giants are going to change head coaches. Just a guess however.

Pioli is in charge of personnel for the Falcons. Also, Dimitroff is probably going to get fired (which would give Pioli more power).

This is true. But I don't see the top three changing.

Rivers signed a long term extension before the season.



I think Coughlin might get the golden handshake.

Guess I missed the news on Rivers, but still, he's closer to the end of his career than the beginning.

And if you look at Brees and Manziel, they both possess some similar qualities. Not saying Manziel is in the same league as Brees, but if he proves worthy in the next couple of weeks, he could be heading that way.

Is the golden handshake the same as getting fired?

They're both short and are from Texas?

Did we see the Peter Principle with Pioli in KC? There were tons of articles painting him as a tyrant who created a work environment that no one wanted to be a part of. Additionally, he did a crappy job.

Change for change sake will be just as bad as doing nothing at all.