|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=...o&type=lgnsTaking out the trash By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports May 22, 2007 This spring, six Penn State football players were arrested and charged for crimes stemming from an off-campus fight in which at least 15 Nittany Lions were present. The charged included a couple of star players, although what apparently bothered coach Joe Paterno the most was how many of his kids were willing to be involved. And so Paterno, 80 now but no less tough, no less disciplined, hatched a plan to set things right within his program. He'll let the local legal and student judicial process play out, but regardless he decided that to keep people from thinking his team was trash, it'll spend the fall cleaning it up. According to Paterno, the Penn State football team will clean Beaver Stadium after each home football game this fall. It'll gather garbage, sweep stairs and maybe even hose parts down. It'll be Notre Dame on Saturday, nacho spills on Sunday. It's a job that usually goes to members of club sports on campus
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877 |
Good for him. That's awesome and should be encouraged by every program. Kids get WAYYYY too high and mighty these days thinking they're hot shizzle.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
There's two sides to this style of leadership,...it was used for years in the Marine Corps, and is a mainstay of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" where the whole platoon continuously gets punished for the failure(s) of one misaligned private.
I love Joe too, but he has to be careful with this.
Did the entire rest of the team KNOW about the shenanigans of these 6 morons,....
What repercussions will they get from their "teammates" now,...??
He would have been better off to make the six clean up Beaver Stadium,....
Not an argument,...just a counter-look at leadership and the effect it has on overall morale.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013 |
OOHJAH...
1st of all, it would take 6 guys til the following saturday to clean the stadium themselves...
secondly, i get your point on morale, but let's face it, this isn't some sort of torture...it's a little bit of work, and as was said, couldn't hurt in terms of keeping egos under control...
would you be critical if this was policy was put in place after an offseason of no arrests?...
Browns fans are born with it...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Excellent recruiting tool.. Lets see now.. I am a blue chipper and I really, really wanna spend my time playing janitor. YES!! I wanna go to Penn State! 
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Excellent recruiting tool..
Lets see now.. I am a blue chipper and I really, really wanna spend my time playing janitor. YES!! I wanna go to Penn State!
May not be the best recruiting tool for those players who wanna be pampered and paid, but for a player or parents who wanna turn thier college boy into a man who understands & learns what hard will get him in the world and how far work can take him, for a player / person who wants to earn his place and things in the world, I think it's a great recruiting tool,
When games get tuff and ya gotta work for yards, who's gonna make it and who's gonna quit....the pampered street sissy, or the hard working never give up football player.
As for home games, what do the have 4 or 5 per year, it's not like there doing this every saturday from August till November....I applaud Joe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Hey.. applaud Joe Pa all ya want. Fact remains that a kid that is trying to decide between PSU and Wisconsin is going to want a place where he can play football, get an education, enjoy his college years etc.. and hopefully prep for the NFL.
At PSU he is going to be a janitor on Sunday.. at Wisconsin he is going to be doing what any other college kid is doing. I don't think it's any secret what the choice will be.
And, as a parent, I would want my kid cracking the books on Sunday (with some time out to watch the Browns of course)
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
Excellent recruiting tool..
Lets see now.. I am a blue chipper and I really, really wanna spend my time playing janitor. YES!! I wanna go to Penn State!
I've got a feeling he will LOSE some of his better players due to transfers because of this and he should!
If I were on his team and had nothing to do with this? I would transfer ASAP! This isn't Jr. high Joepa! You just took a huge leap at trashing your own program!
Dee Dee Dee!!!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
May not be the best recruiting tool for those players who wanna be pampered and paid, but for a player or parents who wanna turn thier college boy into a man who understands & learns what hard will get him in the world and how far work can take him, for a player / person who wants to earn his place and things in the world, I think it's a great recruiting tool,
Being punished for the mistakes of OTHERS is teaching your kids? What,teaching them to be a damned door mat?
Not where I'm from! If I do something wrong,fine. But don't punish MY kid for the mistakes of others. Kids have a rough enough of a time growing up and learning to take responsibility for themselves. If you wanna teach them something? Make a prime example outr of the kids who DID IT!
Creating a situation where the innocent are paying for the indescretions of those who are guilty is not "teaching them" anything positive.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I disagree Pit... I don't know what the long term effect on the program will be but the one positive it is teaching them is that this is a TEAM. We succeed as a team, we fail as a team, and how we act reflects on the team.... Pretty much every coach I've ever known has made the whole team run if a few kids were screwing off in practice.. this is just a larger version of that same principal... You're me, me, me attitude... I didn't do it, therefore I should not be affected sounds Braylonesque to me... 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
You win or lose "on the field". You don't win or lose by individuals breaking team rules off the field. Two seperate arena's. Expecting fair treatment based on your actions isn't about "me,me" it's about "personal responsibility" and fair treatment. It's pretty basic human and civil rights in the good old U.S. of A. But I'm pretty sure Penn. State will hear from enough attorney's on the subject they'll be backing off of this before it even starts. Next time I get a speeding ticket,you can send me half of the money for it. After all,we're both on the "Dawg Talkers Team" aren't we?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
You win or lose "on the field". You don't win or lose by individuals breaking team rules off the field.
The feeling of "team," especially at the high school and college level, extends well off the field and you know it. Didn't you ever see Remember the Titans for heavens sake?
Quote:
It's pretty basic human and civil rights in the good old U.S. of A.
And when you sign up to join a team, you certainly don't give up your civil rights, but you do voluntarily submit yourself to the rules of team, if they happen to be more stringent than your basic civil rights... which includes things like dress codes, mandatory meetings and training, drug testing, etc.... this isn't a civil rights issue here Pit, no matter how much you want to make it one... every one of those players is free to walk away.
Quote:
But I'm pretty sure Penn. State will hear from enough attorney's on the subject they'll be backing off of this before it even starts.
I'd be willing to bet they don't.... But you sound almost happy that something like that would happen. I would think you would be a propenent of JoePa being allowed to run his team, HIS way... since being part of that team is completely voluntary any way...
Quote:
Next time I get a speeding ticket,you can send me half of the money for it. After all,we're both on the "Dawg Talkers Team" aren't we?
Only if Prpl tells me to, since he's the coach...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
I guess I would have to take a "long look" at what "rules" a player at Penn State "signs onto"............................
I guess we just see this differently. Yes,we win and lose as a team. You practice and work "as a team". And off the field? That's where we seperate our views................
Off the field,I'm responsible for "my own actions". And yes,if "I" break team rules and reflect a bad light on the university,"I" deserve to be punished. However,if you're on that same team and on the other side of town waxing a ladies..................uh..............CAR,yeah,car,then you're a third party with nothing to do with nor any possible way of stopping or even seeing the innapropriate actions I might have participated in.
There is simply no logic nor reasoning that makes that appropriate. God knows there needs to be some overhauling of NCAA regulations and enforcement of existing rules as well. Stiffer punishments on "players who commit infractions". But where do you feel a coaches authority ends? Anmywhere? Do you feel he "owns these guys" 24/7 and can actually penalize players with NO INVOLVEMENT of the offenses OFF the field?
See,I think that's just "one step too far". And I feel wheather it's the NCAA,Penn. State,his players mass exits,or exactly what it will come down to,but I say he gets called on this one and has to either back-off or retire.
I don't like the attitudes in some of these kids. And it is up to the NCAA to step up to bat and do something. But having a coach punish innocent members of a team for the actions of a small portion OFF the field,is just going too far. While I agree that a coach is a powerfull figure that commands much respect from his players,he is not a God.
There has to be a limit somewhere. And you know where that limit is? Unless Joepa is out there pushing a broom too,he's the only member of that "team" that seems to be able to escape responsibility? Everybody else who didn't see it either is LESS guilty than Joepa? You know,the leader?
Unless he is willing to bear the same punishment as the other "innocent people who weren't even there" then it's just another example of someone of responsibility passing the buck to everyone but himself. The violators team mates didn't recruit them and bring them to Penn. State to begin with,Joepa did. He's making a point by blaming everyone but himself for not "baby sitting" for him? How noble.............
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593 |
Good for Joe Pa. Maybe this will knock some of them off their high horses. As for losing recruits or players, i don't think this will have any effect as a matter of fact it may help, because if a student is torn between 2 schools their parents may push them toward PSU since they see that Paterno is a no nonsense kind of guy. Plus its only for 6 or 7 home games they play and with 85 scholarship players plus all the walkons it'll probably only take an hour out of their day.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
Quote:
There's two sides to this style of leadership,...it was used for years in the Marine Corps, and is a mainstay of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" where the whole platoon continuously gets punished for the failure(s) of one misaligned private.
I love Joe too, but he has to be careful with this.
Did the entire rest of the team KNOW about the shenanigans of these 6 morons,....
What repercussions will they get from their "teammates" now,...??
He would have been better off to make the six clean up Beaver Stadium,....
Not an argument,...just a counter-look at leadership and the effect it has on overall morale.
Bad example, Joe pa is far from badgering one lone slacker. If there were actually 6 or so players involved with the confrontation, that is a large portion of the team. Last time i checked footbal was a team sport. If the other players decide to bring some justice down on these guys, so be it. Work builds character and the wrongdoers will also be more apt to think about others as well as themselves when they are in a similar situation.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Being punished for the mistakes of OTHERS is teaching your kids? What,teaching them to be a damned door mat?
Not where I'm from! If I do something wrong,fine. But don't punish MY kid for the mistakes of others. Kids have a rough enough of a time growing up and learning to take responsibility for themselves. If you wanna teach them something? Make a prime example outr of the kids who DID IT!
Wow Pit your reading in my opinon way to much into this, there are times when punishing kids on a single basis is fine and should be, but dont you think other kids can learn from the doing wrong of others, and as a team it makes everybody understand what they do effects the whole team, adn didnt these young men come to Penn st. with the understanding they will be part of that team, not individuals. I'm sure Joe will handle this as a team learning experiance, and will make sure the ones guilty of the infraction do most of the work. Learning that sometimes in life what you do effects others is a good learning tool, and sometimes thinking before you do something you know is wrong and how it effects others and involes others might make these young men think before they go out and do something else, Joe is approching this as a TEAM learning not as anything else, so to add anything from outside life or away from TEAM doesnt fit in this case. Letting down others on your team makes one accountable for thier actions sometimes, not always, I bet these guys work harder to win the trust of thier teammates back and will have a better understanding of how it effects the whole team.
there are not set ways to teach young people right from wrong if there was we'd just grab the book.
maybe this works and maybe it drives a stack into the team and seperates them, but I think Joe's a little smarter than that to let thet happen.
this situtation has to be looked at from a team atmosphere, leaders step up and tell these kids look, your actions effected all the team, us leaders are not gonna let ya do it again or we will make sure your gone.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Team atmosphere?
So when the "team" leaves the practice field,and they all go their seperate ways,that's the "team atmosphere"? That's the problem I have with this in part......................
Who recruited these players? Their team mates,or Joepa? Who is responsible for those athletes being at Penn State in the first place? Their team mates? Or Joepa? Who judged their character and deemed them worthy of being on this team? Their team mates,or Joepa?
Sounds to me like Joepa is "passing the buck" just a little bit IMO.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
Quote:
You win or lose "on the field". You don't win or lose by individuals breaking team rules off the field. Two seperate arena's.
Expecting fair treatment based on your actions isn't about "me,me" it's about "personal responsibility" and fair treatment. It's pretty basic human and civil rights in the good old U.S. of A. But I'm pretty sure Penn. State will hear from enough attorney's on the subject they'll be backing off of this before it even starts.
Next time I get a speeding ticket,you can send me half of the money for it. After all,we're both on the "Dawg Talkers Team" aren't we?
Other than the team aspect of what is going on, it also teaches that your actions effect others. Many people can exept the judgements of thier own actions, but will think twice if they know that it will also negitively effect people they have to face on a day to day basis.
Human rights . . . right, now your grasping at straws. Every player there has a right to leave the team if they think the punishment is unfair. No one will be cleaning the stadium against thier will. Too many people throw the word "rights"around when "rights" have nothing to do with it.
Poor example, A better one woudl be a few people at a company work together to run some drugs in/with thier product. They get busted, the company loses buisness and the company goews out of buisness. It too bad the court of public opinion judges the whole group, not just the bad apples. That is why headlines read "Six PSU football players in trouble for being in a brawl" who does it effect in the eyess of the public . . .PSU football
Last edited by ibleedorange; 05/24/07 12:24 PM.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
Quote:
Team atmosphere?
So when the "team" leaves the practice field,and they all go their seperate ways,that's the "team atmosphere"? That's the problem I have with this in part......................
Who recruited these players? Their team mates,or Joepa? Who is responsible for those athletes being at Penn State in the first place? Their team mates? Or Joepa? Who judged their character and deemed them worthy of being on this team? Their team mates,or Joepa?
Sounds to me like Joepa is "passing the buck" just a little bit IMO.
Last time i checked Joepa didn't get into a fight. Nice how you have come twisted the argument to attack him instead of the players who are in the wrong. . .
Ruining QB's since 1999.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
So when the "team" leaves the practice field,and they all go their seperate ways,that's the "team atmosphere"?
15 of them went their seperate ways and ended up at the same party...
I would assume you know this Pit, but in college, football players tend to live with and around other football players... they hang out together, go to parties together, etc... You seldom see a lone football player ANYWHERE.
Quote:
Who recruited these players? Their team mates,or Joepa? Who is responsible for those athletes being at Penn State in the first place? Their team mates? Or Joepa? Who judged their character and deemed them worthy of being on this team? Their team mates,or Joepa?
Sounds to me like Joepa is "passing the buck" just a little bit IMO.
This part I agree with... JoePa needs to include himself and the rest of the staff in this somehow.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Again.. this hurts recruiting. Setting aside all "moral lessons" and JoP's attempts to teach people that should know better simply by virtue of their age.. Pragmatically, If I am a HS senior and I'm being recruited by PSU and half the Big Ten, and I find out if I decide to go to PSU, I'm gonna be spending 4 years of 6 Sundays each year cleaning that stadium when I could be doing something more productive on Sunday such as my homework, screwing a cheerleader or watching the Browns.. the hell with PSU. It's not my problem nor is it my issue. Furthermore, JoPa could do a better job of recruiting better kids. Then the kids on the team wouldn't spending their time doing silly crap like playing janitor. Ding, Ding! 
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Again.. this hurts recruiting.
I'm sure it will... but what does JoePa care? He'll be gone in a year or two anyway... And anyway, I'm not arguing whether it will help or hurt this team or recruiting, I'm just defending his ability to do it...
Quote:
Furthermore, JoPa could do a better job of recruiting better kids. Then the kids on the team wouldn't spending their time doing silly crap like playing janitor. Ding, Ding!
I seriously doubt that JoePa's kids are any better or worse than most other major universities, they're kids who let a situation get out of control... could have happened anywhere.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
Last time i checked Joepa didn't get into a fight. Nice how you have come twisted the argument to attack him instead of the players who are in the wrong. . .
Me "holding him accountable for recruiting those kids that got in trouble" is NO different than him holding other innocent individuals responsible for it.I'm with you! Let's hold those SIX that got into the fight responsible. But if everyone on the "team" is in trouble for the actions of those six,so should Joepa.
He DID bring them there and he IS the "leader" of that team. So if the other INNOCENT players are guilty of anything,so is Joepa..............
The REST of the team didn't get in a fight either. Joepa is no MORE innocent than they are. But what's Joepa's punishment?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
CALM down, don't get CARRIED away, you are getting ALL excited... you're going to have a HEART ATTACK. It's just a college FOOTBALL team.. sheeeesh.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
15 of them went their seperate ways and ended up at the same party...
So six out of those 15 did something wrong. How many players are on the roster at PSU again? 50? 60? So roughly one in three were even THERE and less than HALF of the one's who WERE there,weren't in the fight. Hmmm? Not very good odds there as far as "hitting the target".
Quote:
This part I agree with... JoePa needs to include himself and the rest of the staff in this somehow.
To have any "moral highground" on this issue,he certainly does................. If not? I would consider him no better than the young men who got into the fight in the first place IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
CALM down, don't get CARRIED away, you are getting ALL excited... you're going to have a HEART ATTACK. It's just a college FOOTBALL team.. sheeeesh.
I've been taking posting lessons from Diam!
I'm fine,really. But thanks for your concern.I'll revert back to using the quotation marks more so you won't worry so much.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593 |
Quote:
So six out of those 15 did something wrong. How many players are on the roster at PSU again? 50? 60? So roughly one in three were even THERE and less than HALF of the one's who WERE there,weren't in the fight. Hmmm? Not very good odds there as far as "hitting the target".
Pit, the article says that "at least" 15 were present and that 6 were charged. Also if i recall some of the ones involved were stars of the team. And there are 85 scholarship players plus numerous walk-ons. When these players are recruited these guys are usually told that they need to keep their noses clean or there will be repercussions.
Quote:
To have any "moral highground" on this issue,he certainly does................. If not? I would consider him no better than the young men who got into the fight in the first place IMO
Why should he? Thats like saying if i own a business and one of my employees screws up that i should discipline myself too. He didn't force these kids to go out late at night and to get into a huge brawl.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
So six out of those 15 did something wrong. How many players are on the roster at PSU again? 50? 60? So roughly one in three were even THERE and less than HALF of the one's who WERE there,weren't in the fight. Hmmm? Not very good odds there as far as "hitting the target".
I find it sort of humerous that you are so worked up about this... I have never once said I thought it would be highly effective... in fact it could be quite detrimental... I just offered one possible positive that could come out of it... and argued that it's his program and he has the right to do it... if some players don't show up to clean, then it will be interesting to see how he handles that... I'll bet PSU has a lot of "injuries" in the final few minutes of every game that's not in doubt..
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
Why should he? Thats like saying if i own a business and one of my employees screws up that i should discipline myself too. He didn't force these kids to go out late at night and to get into a huge brawl.
Why is that any different than you punishing 65 of your employees for something that 15 employees OTHER than them were guilty of? Oh that's right,in the private sector you wouldn't be ALLOWED to do that!
I think the bottom line is pretty simple. YOU HIRED THEM,right? Why would your "innocent employees" be any more guilty for the bad one's actions than the guy that hired them? Any way you slice it,with 85 scholarships and 15 players at the party,there is 70 players getting punished due to NO fault of their own.
That's not justifiable in anybody's book. Not even your own.
Unless you're saying that if YOU hire a "bad apple" you're going to fault your OTHER employees for it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
I'm not "worked up". I find it fairly amusing that people are trying to justify punishing 70 innocent football players for the act of a minority of their team mates.
Sometimes people go too far. Some players play too long. And some coaches coach too long. That sadly may end up being the case here.
I'd hate to see it all end that way though. Rather Woodyesque..............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
How many players are on the roster at PSU again? 50? 60?
Quote:
than you punishing 65 of your employees for something that 15 employees
Quote:
are trying to justify punishing 70 innocent football players
I was wrong Pit... this isn't hurting his recruiting at all... In fact, he has more players every time you post.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
I posted, and I just noticed that its not the full article there, and what i had written isnt there.
weird, anyway...
I applaud JoePa. Commenting on what the others have said. Joe is in fact punishing himself along with the team, He, himself has to wake up early on Sunday's to supervise these kids for cleaning up the stadium. You think he wants to be there? no, he'd rather be at church, sleeping in, film study, practice planning, recruiting or whatever it is he likes to do sunday mornings. Watch the Browns. wahtever.
Will this affect recruiting. Maybe. Here's where it will. The kids that go to just have a good time and playfootball and use the popularity to get laid and whatnot might not go there. Also, players that get in fights and go to parties that have fights, and say yea they wish they were there for the fight might not go there. But hardworking kids that are there to get better at football, be better people, and good teammates will still want to go there.
But, I personally, would want to go there. Joe Paterno knows about team concept, if one person is at fault, everyone is at fault. The 15 that were there, couldve taken the 6 away from the problem. The 45 that werent there, couldve been there with their teammates, or couldve talked their teammates into not going.
Its a team sport, if you punish just the 6, in a way youre punishing the team. Lets say he suspended those 6 kids the first 4 games. Thats hurting the whole team anyway. This way, they do something good for the school, they do it as a team, and together, they learn a valuable lesson.
Again, I applaud Joe Pa, im glad he's cleaning up the garbage (pun completely intended) on the PSU football team. He doesnt want punks, chumps and thugs on his team, and if they dont wanna clean the stadium they wont play for the team, and he can find 65 or whatever number it is, players that wanna play football and football only.
In a way, this effects recruiting, maybe not to the benefit of the school, but to his team. He can get the players that he wants, because theyll want to be there regardless, and do things his way.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
Lets say he suspended those 6 kids the first 4 games. Thats hurting the whole team anyway. This way, they do something good for the school, they do it as a team, and together, they learn a valuable lesson.
Yeah. This way he punishes the BULK of the team for something they had NO part of so he can keep his "stars" on the field. Boy that'll teach them some character.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,593 |
Quote:
Why is that any different than you punishing 65 of your employees for something that 15 employees OTHER than them were guilty of? Oh that's right,in the private sector you wouldn't be ALLOWED to do that!
Yes you can, you could take away privileges like not allowing a radio to be played in an office, or no vending machines, or whatever.
That stuff happens all the time, because a few screw up all are punished.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
So you can make them work for free cleaning your shop on Sundays? I don't think so Tim........................... Apples and oranges. You're talking about requiring them to "compensate" you by performing work as a punishment. Not even in the same ballpark. Try that out some time and see how that works for you. "Folks,come here. I know there's 80 of you working here,but 15 of our employees went to a party after work and got in troiuble. Now these are 15 of my best workers,so I don't want to fire them or give them a layoff because it will hurt production around here." "So here's what we're going to do. To make it look like I'm a character guy and a real diciplinarian I'm going to punish ALL of you by making you come in on Sundays and clean the shop for free. That way I can save my top employees,keep looking good and you innocent people can help me save my image and top workers from being suspended.So I'll just keep rolling along and the rest of you can absorb their misdeeds." " I know. I hired them. I'm the one who put my job on the line by bringing them in here. But I don't care. All 80 of you will be punished for the act of a fraction of you." Yeah,try that out!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Yeah. This way he punishes the BULK of the team for something they had NO part of so he can keep his "stars" on the field. Boy that'll teach them some character.
So you'd rather "not" punish the innocent players by making them go 5-7 because they have to play a bunch of games without their better players?
He could have done what some other programs have done, he could have suspended 3 of them for the game against Central Pennsylvania Community College and the other 3 for the game against Eastern New Jersey Tech... that would have fixed 'em...
At least he tried SOMETHING.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
hopefully Penn St. does loose a few players and Ohio St. picks up a few good BACK-UPS........LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
I see your point. But this punishes the players, but doesnt necessarily hurt the players come game time. and whos to say those 6 kids were the stars. Maybe theyre benchwarmers. It's an all or nothing thing.
I just really like that, he wants to "clean up" a public mess as they wrote in an article or two.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Quote:
I'm sure it will... but what does JoePa care? He'll be gone in a year or two anyway... And anyway, I'm not arguing whether it will help or hurt this team or recruiting, I'm just defending his ability to do it...
This might just be his last year.. and we are arguing different things.. I'm just taking a pragmatic look at the results and not his ability to do such a thing..
Quote:
I seriously doubt that JoePa's kids are any better or worse than most other major universities, they're kids who let a situation get out of control... could have happened anywhere.
No argument there.. I'm just heaping on Joe 
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248 |
Quote:
So you'd rather "not" punish the innocent players by making them go 5-7 because they have to play a bunch of games without their better players?
He could have done what some other programs have done, he could have suspended 3 of them for the game against Central Pennsylvania Community College and the other 3 for the game against Eastern New Jersey Tech... that would have fixed 'em...
At least he tried SOMETHING.
If you call punishing 70 people that had NOTHING to do with this "something" I suppose he did. I really don't care what he "does" as long as the guilty pay for the infractions and the innocent do not.
Like I said earlier,it's really important the the NCAA step up to the plate. In the grand scheme of things,"they're the govorning body",not Joepa. No matter how you slice it.
But punishing an entire team for the actions of a minority of a teams members is not building anything. It's only a reminder to future possible recruits that Penn State permited this to happen. And that will be around longer than Joepa will be at Penn. State.
Fair is fair and right is right. This constitutes neither.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Paterno lays down the hammer...and
broom at Penn St.
|
|
