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I don't believe many of the moves Farmer has made have been upgrades and I'm not sure how much input Pettine has had in these moves. Interesting take... So put yourself in Haslams shoes for a moment. You are sitting there during the draft, Farmer wants to take Justin Gilbert and Pettine says, No, I want Carr.. Gilbert in his first two years appears to be a total flop. Carr seems to be on track to become a darn good QB. This same thing plays out several more times during the two drafts and as the owner, you see the pattern develop that farmer isn't on the same page with Pettine and it appear that Pettine is asking for guys that end up performing. As owner, do you dump them both? Or do you look at this and maybe say, hey, Pettine wanted guys that worked out, Farmer took guys that are failing. Then what? Keep in mind, I'm making this up, I have no idea if that happened at all.. Just asking what if?
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/19/15 03:35 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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We often hear about players having a "sophomore slump" .... can the same thing happen to coaches?
I never really thought about it until right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster?
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I'm confused by this a little. I mean, we could offer Pioli VP/GM title and I understand it's considered a promotion. Wouldn't that make it workable?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I'm confused by this a little. I mean, we could offer Pioli VP/GM title and I understand it's considered a promotion. Wouldn't that make it workable? That only works if you are going from an assistant to head coach. In any other circumstance the team can block the move.
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We often hear about players having a "sophomore slump" .... can the same thing happen to coaches?
I never really thought about it until right now. If a coach is this bad in his first two years, they will probably never recover. I made a post about this awhile ago. These are the coaches that have had four wins or less in a season since 1999. Arizona Cardinals-
2001 - Vince Tobin fired midseason (team ended up going 3-13)
2003 - Dave McGinnis, fired
Atlanta Falcons-
2000 - Dan Reeves, not fired (7-9, 9-6-1 after that)
2013 - Mike Smith, not fired (6-10 the following year, then fired)
Baltimore Ravens - never won four games or less since 1999
Buffalo Bills-
2001 - Gregg Williams, not fired (first year as head coach, went 14-28 after that, then fired)
2010 - Chan Gailey, not fired (first year as head coach, went 12-20 after that, then fired)
Carolina Panthers-
2001 - George Seifert, fired (1-15)
2010 - John Fox, fired (2-14)
Chicago Bears-
2002 - Dick Jauron, not fired (7-9 the next season, fired)
Cincinnati Bengals-
1999 - Bruce Coslet, not fired (fired midseason the next year)
2000 - Dick LeBeau 4-12, not fired (went 8-24 after that)
2008 - Marvin Lewis, not fired
2010 - Marvin Lewis, not fired
Cleveland Browns:
1999 - Chris Palmer, not fired (first season as head coach, 3-13 the next season, fired)
2004 - Butch Davis, fired midseason (team finished 4-12)
2006 - Romeo Crennel, not fired (went 14-16 after that)
2011 - Pat Shurmur, not fired (first season as coach, 5-11 the next season, then fired)
2013 - Rob Chudzinksi, fired (only one year as coach)
Dallas Cowboys - have never won four games or less since 1999
Denver Broncos:
2010 - Josh McDaniels, fired midseason (team finished 4-12)
Detroit Lions:
2001 - Marty Mornhinweg, not fired (went 3-13 the next season, fired)
2006 - Rod Marinelli, not fired (first season as head coach)
2008 - Rod Marinelli, fired (0-16 season)
2009 - Jim Schwartz, not fired (first season as head coach),
2013 - Jim Schwartz, not fired (fired the following season after going 7-9)
Green Bay Packers:
2005 - Mike Sherman, fired (4-12)
Houston Texans:
2002 - Dom Capers, not fired (first year of the franchise)
2005 - Dom Capers, fired
Indianapolis Colts:
2011 - Jim Caldwell, fired
Jacksonville Jaguars:
2012 - Mike Mularkey, fired (only one year as head coach)
2013 - Gus Bradley, not fired
2014 - Gus Bradley, not fired (currently 2-6)
Kansas City Chiefs:
2007 - Herm Edwards, not fired
2008 - Herm Edwards, fired
2009 - Todd Haley, not fired (first year as head coach, went 15-14 from that point on, was fired midseason)
2012 - Romeo Crennel, fired (was the interim coach held over from the previous season)
Miami Dolphins:
2004 - Dave Wanstache Wannstedt, fired (fired midseason, team finished 4-12)
2007 - Cam Cameron, fired (first year as head coach)
Minnesota Vikings:
2011 - Leslie Frazier, not fired (went 15-16-1, then fired)
New England Patriots - Have not won four or less games since 1999
New Orleans Saints:
1999 - Mike Ditka, fired
2005 - Jim Haslett, fired
New York Giants:
2003 - Jim Fassel, fired
New York Jets:
2005 - Herm Edwards, fired
2007 - Eric Mangini, not fired (went 9-7 the next season and then fired)
2014 - Rex Ryan, fired
Oakland Raiders:
2003 - Bill Callahan, fired
2005 - Norv Turner, fired
2006 - Art Shell, fired
2007 - Lane Kiffin, not fired
2008 - Lane Kiffin, fired (fired midseason, team finished 4-12)
2012 - Dennis Allen, not fired
2013 - Dennis Allen, not fired
2014 - Dennis Allen, fired (fired midseason, team finished 3-13)
Philadelphia Eagles:
2012 - Andy Reid, fired
Pittsburgh Steelers - Have not won four games or less since 1999
San Diego Chargers:
2000 - Mike Riley, not fired (fired following the next season after going 5-11)
2003 - Marty Schottenheimer, not fired (was very successful following this going 35-13, then was fired)
San Francisco 49ers:
1999 - Steve Mariucci, not fired
2004 - Dennis Erickson, fired
2005 - Mike Nolan, not fired (first year as head coach)
Seattle Seahawks:
2008 - Mike Holmgren, fired
St Louis Rams:
2007 - Scott Linehan, not fired
2008 - Scott Linehan, fired (fired midseason, team finished 2-14)
2009 - Steve Spagnuolo, not fired
2011 - Steve Spagnuolo, fired
Tampa Bay Buccaneers:
2006 - Jon Gruden, not fired
2011 - Raheem Morris, fired
2013 - Greg Schiano, fired
Tennessee Titans:
2005 - Jeff Fisher, not fired (went on to coach five more seasons with mixed success)
2014 - Ken Whisenhunt, not fired (fired after week eight of 2015 season)
Washington Redskins:
2009 - Jim Zorn, fired
2013 - Mike Shanahan, fired
2014 - Jay Gruden, not fired (first season as head coach)
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I'm confused by this a little. I mean, we could offer Pioli VP/GM title and I understand it's considered a promotion. Wouldn't that make it workable? That only works if you are going from an assistant to head coach. In any other circumstance the team can block the move. OK,, But blocking the move if Pioli wanted to come here seems a little counter productive to me... But I got ya.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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i keep thinking about Reggie McKenzie out there in Raider nation.
he finally started drafting really good, but man, a lot of his first drafts were....odd.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Once you have your QB, the chances your drafts are good increase tenfold.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Once you have your QB, the chances your drafts are good increase tenfold. No doubt. In most cases, even the best college QB's are 50/50 bets at #1 while other positions, the odds of making it and playing close to projection is much greater. That is why I really hope JM has good showings and we can go in to next season with the same 3 QBs as we have today. Like him or not, every real Browns fan should be hoping for the same thing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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That's not really true. Oakland has done a great job of acquiring talent in the past couple of years. Cooper, Crabtree, Smith, Mack, Murray, Tuck, etc are all fine players in their own right and have actually helped in the development of Carr.
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It is true. It just takes some thought.
Why does it always appear that the teams with franchise QBs have the "best" talent?
It's not a coincidence. And it's due to the following:
1. Teams that have a franchise QB play better. Yes, QB does make a difference on offense AND defense. Because the team believes they have a chance to win. It's a mental thing. It starts with believing.
2. FQB raise talent level of everyone. Everyone plays better on a team with a franchise QB. Julian Edelman would be a bust in Cleveland.
3. FQB keeps coaches and FO employed. It allows for stability and continuity in culture, message, and systems.
4. Stable FO gets to focus on positions besides QB in the draft, dedicating more time to draft players to build the team.
5. Those drafted players come into stable situations with established systems. They don't need to get on the field right away and can develop and grow. The veterans aren't learning new systems. They already know the current stable system like the back of their hands. They are key in helping the new guys grow and develop because they aren't learning too.
Is it any wonder that teams with FQBs seem to draft "better" than everyone else?
Yes, drafts become easier and have much greater chance of success when you have the QB.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If you went by Browns fans standards, everyone else's GM would of been fired already..
"Yeah, you got Antonio Brown later, but you've missed in the first round on Jones"
"Sergio Kindle? What were you thinking?"
"You drafted ANOTHER running back when you already had Bernard? Are you crazy?"
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Browns fans are pretty oblivious to what goes on with other teams in the NFL.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I would not be opposed to giving Saban control of the draft and free agency. I suspect most good, established coaches have more control over the draft than might be known. Right now, we have a GM that apparently picks players (free agency and draft) despite what the coach wants or needs and says, "Here you go." The coach doesn't like them, doesn't play them and it does not work.
If you think you have a good coach who knows what he is doing, you ought to let him have a major say in who you put on his roster. Where I think you can have trouble is when a coach, like Chip Kelly, wants to control EVERYTHING, including what kind of mustard they sell at the concession stands. The two are supposed to work together, which of course is what they SAID they were going to do when they were hired. Then proceeded to do exactly the opposite of that. Is that Farmers fault, Pettines, of both? I presume it's both. Farmer has an ego the size of Montana, and Pettine doesn't seem to know what kind of team he wants to field. I won't miss either one of them.....
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true. The Atlanta Falcons today announced a restructuring of its player personnel department, which is effective today. The changes are designed to provide a more intense focus on pro and college scouting efforts, play on the strengths of individuals in the two departments, and ensure the highest standards of performance in other areas of football operations managed by Falcons General Manager Thomas Dimitroff.
As part of the realignment, Assistant General Manager Scott Pioli will take on pro and college scouting and NFL Draft responsibilities, reporting to Dimitroff. Dimitroff will also retain management responsibility for salary cap, player affairs, equipment, sports medicine and performance, and video activities.
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That is an unreal post.
Brown's fans are to blame? Have you looked at the Steelers record?
Get outta here w/that nonsense.
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If the Browns were 9-5 or 11-3 like the Steelers and Bengals respectively then you would have a point. Those teams are WINNING......the Browns not so much.
Did you watch the game today? The talent difference between us and the Seahawks is unreal.....and I guarantee you Carrol would find someone of the street before he trotted out Bademosi at CB like Pettine does every week. The Seahawks signed a guy off the street who decisively outplayed our starting RB today.
Yeah it's the fans fault
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true. The Atlanta Falcons today announced a restructuring of its player personnel department, which is effective today. The changes are designed to provide a more intense focus on pro and college scouting efforts, play on the strengths of individuals in the two departments, and ensure the highest standards of performance in other areas of football operations managed by Falcons General Manager Thomas Dimitroff.
As part of the realignment, Assistant General Manager Scott Pioli will take on pro and college scouting and NFL Draft responsibilities, reporting to Dimitroff. Dimitroff will also retain management responsibility for salary cap, player affairs, equipment, sports medicine and performance, and video activities. Still don't see where it says Pioli is in charge of the roster. Dimitroff is the GM. Pioli reports to him. I'm pretty sure Dimitroff has the final say on the roster.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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You and Vers both missed the point.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true. The Atlanta Falcons today announced a restructuring of its player personnel department, which is effective today. The changes are designed to provide a more intense focus on pro and college scouting efforts, play on the strengths of individuals in the two departments, and ensure the highest standards of performance in other areas of football operations managed by Falcons General Manager Thomas Dimitroff.
As part of the realignment, Assistant General Manager Scott Pioli will take on pro and college scouting and NFL Draft responsibilities, reporting to Dimitroff. Dimitroff will also retain management responsibility for salary cap, player affairs, equipment, sports medicine and performance, and video activities. Still don't see where it says Pioli is in charge of the roster. Dimitroff is the GM. Pioli reports to him. I'm pretty sure Dimitroff has the final say on the roster. Maybe he isn't "in charge" of the roster, but he definitely is in charger college and pro scouting and the draft. Teams don't let guys like that walk.
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Sometimes they fire them.
#gmstrong
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Sometimes they fire them. This is true. I don't see the Falcons firing those guys after the shakeup last off-season though.
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Some people let people do their jobs.
#gmstrong
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true. The Atlanta Falcons today announced a restructuring of its player personnel department, which is effective today. The changes are designed to provide a more intense focus on pro and college scouting efforts, play on the strengths of individuals in the two departments, and ensure the highest standards of performance in other areas of football operations managed by Falcons General Manager Thomas Dimitroff.
As part of the realignment, Assistant General Manager Scott Pioli will take on pro and college scouting and NFL Draft responsibilities, reporting to Dimitroff. Dimitroff will also retain management responsibility for salary cap, player affairs, equipment, sports medicine and performance, and video activities. Their head coach has final say on the roster. Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank says new coach Dan Quinn has final say over 53-man roster http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/122729...y-53-man-roster
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why would the Falcons just let Pioli leave when he is in charge of their roster? I don't think this is true. The Atlanta Falcons today announced a restructuring of its player personnel department, which is effective today. The changes are designed to provide a more intense focus on pro and college scouting efforts, play on the strengths of individuals in the two departments, and ensure the highest standards of performance in other areas of football operations managed by Falcons General Manager Thomas Dimitroff.
As part of the realignment, Assistant General Manager Scott Pioli will take on pro and college scouting and NFL Draft responsibilities, reporting to Dimitroff. Dimitroff will also retain management responsibility for salary cap, player affairs, equipment, sports medicine and performance, and video activities. Their head coach has final say on the roster. Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank says new coach Dan Quinn has final say over 53-man roster http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/122729...y-53-man-rosterWow. That is something I did not know. With that being the case, I wouldn't be shocked to see Dimitroff and/or Pioli get fired. I wouldn't want either unless we somehow pried Josh McDaniels away from the Patriots.
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Not certain that I would want Josh McDaniels... He wasn't very good in Denver. Maybe Saban!
But, then again, Belichick wasn't very good here (except for one year) but went on to great success in New England. Can lightning strike twice maybe?
By the way, I'll never hold Belichicks last year in Cleveland against him! That's on Modell. Art created an atmosphere here that nobody could deal with.. Not players, coaches or fans or even employees of the Browns in Berea.
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/21/15 07:14 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't think I want McDaniels as our coach, just thinking that he might work well with Pioli and/or Dimitroff because of their shared time in New England.
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I'm torn on McDaniels. 1st he was thrust into the role too early in his career. 2nd, hard to distinguish between the job done by McDaniels the head coach and McDaniels the GM. Not sure how much better he would be the 2nd time around but he is a smart guy who I believe learned from his experience in Denver. And did he really do that bad as a HC? He did win a playoff game. No arguing though that McDaniels the gm was terrible.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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~ Legend
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I don't think I want McDaniels as our coach, just thinking that he might work well with Pioli and/or Dimitroff because of their shared time in New England. Mid-2000's Randy Lerner, is that you?
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Given how badly this job is regarded, if we could get McDaniels, I would be happy. I also agree with Jester, he would probably do better in a 2nd HC job.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Given how badly this job is regarded, if we could get McDaniels, I would be happy. I also agree with Jester, he would probably do better in a 2nd HC job. I wonder how many heads would explode if we did that??? lol
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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IF we do a reboot, the top assistants with no prior HC history on my list are (in no particular order):
Bob McAdo OC NYG
Sean McDermott DC Carolina
Last edited by Jester; 12/22/15 12:43 AM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I'd rather have Pett's dad be the HC.
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I'd rather have Pett's dad be the HC. I wrote in another post (this thread maybe??) that I think the biggest thing missing form this season was Pet's dad. We heard about him every week last season... we went 7-9... we don't hear anything about him this season and, well... just sayin 
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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I'd rather have Pett's dad be the HC. ...or Shanny's dad.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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You know, I'd forgotten or maybe didn't know that he was HC and GM. But under him didn't they Draft Tebow?
I still like Tebow, wish he'd be willing to take another position. TE, RB, LB maybe even.. I think he's a heckuva kid.
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/22/15 10:07 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,378 |
[quote=W84NxtYrAgain]Given how badly this job is regarded, if we could get McDaniels, I would be happy. I also agree with Jester, he would probably do better in a 2nd HC job. I wonder how many heads would explode if we did that??? lol [/quot I know this was a joke..I think...but that dude didnt just burn the bridge I think he nuked it from existence. Man I'm not sure who I would want...but whoever the poster is that keeps saying Jimmy has the bucks and should back up the brinks truck to get the "name" well I kind of agree with that but also get people on the same page..not just saying it but actually follow through with it. Also stick with it even if the first couple years dont bear winning records. I like Jimmy and think he will get it figured out...I'd like to see someone take his role and see how it would get handled it cant be easy...also Ive read people say he doesnt care if we win:/ The ego that man has I dont believe that for a second...I dont think he spent over a billion dollars to loose. I mean my goodness the guy has only owned the team in a very short period...so I dont get the fire the owner thing..1 he isnt going anywhere and 2 the guy has to learn how to be an owner and I think he will figure it out. guess time will tell.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,101
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,101 |
Several posters, and at least 1 ESPN writer, have said the way to go with fixing this organization is to install a President of Football Operations, someone with extensive football experience and specifically, experience in team building. I know that reminds folks of the Holmgren fiasco, and that's pretty much what Haslam abandoned when he fired Banner. But Between Farmer, Pettine, O'Neill, and Defilippo, they have less than 7 years total experience in their roles. Some experienced oversight and guidance would be very helpful. Once that person is in place, it would be his job to analyze the current situation and determine if and who needs to be replaced and how to move forward.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum All the Cards are on the Table...
Your Move Jimmy
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