DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Manziel Manziel

And we need to simply consider how some people don't like JM, even though he is playing well. It's like they would rather "win" some message board arguement then see the team progress and get better. It's past the point where people can question if he has the talent to get it done.

One interesting thing to remember about college quarterbacks in the draft is how much they can move up and down the boards even after the season ends. IIRCC, Teddy spent his whole final year as the consensus top QB available. Then others' stock started to rise. And when he wore gloves and seemed smallish at his pro-day, he really dropped. I also remember one mov=ck having us taking Mettenberger withNo. 19, and then he nearly fell out of the draft. Right now everyone loves Lynch, but by draft time it could change.Maybe we can still get a prospect with our second or even third pick, and fill other holes while hedging with Johnny. Just a thought.
I would love to get Bosa (I know, I'm a homer) or a bona fide offensive weapon at WR with first pick.

Who would you take as a QB in the first round?

This is really the only sensible approach. There are 3 games left in the season that can significantly change our impression of JFF - in either direction. It is certainly reasonable to consider the approach to the offseason we will take in either eventuality but it is way too early to make a decision.

I agree that there are a lot of people who really despise Manziel and are rooting against him. However, I don't think he has proven that he is the guy, yet. The next three games will hopefully help in the evaluation process.

I do think we made a mistake not playing him more this year. That is why I started a thread BEFORE the season about what would our qb situation look like heading into next season if we played McCown instead of JM this year. Most thought that was a dumb question. I wonder if they still think it was dumb?

I haven't fully made up my mind on Manziel yet. He is just so young that it's very possible he could change his bad behaviors as he matures. I just don't know that he will have enough time on the Browns to mature before he is replaced.

I've not been a Manziel supporter but was pleasantly surprised to see him beating up that microsoft tablet with his forehead. While a ridiculous act on the surface it did show he's starting to care.

According to Pettine yup dumb question.

I love that picture. I had never seen that before.

1. I've been hearing from Browns fans who aren't sure what they want from the final three games. The Johnny Manziel fans want their favorite quarterback to play well. The fans who are weary of all the quarterback changes for the Browns wish someone would grab the position. They'll back Manziel now, even if they weren't thrilled with him earlier.

2. But there is another group of fans who want the highest draft pick possible. The ideal is the top pick. So that means the Browns must lose the last three games. Perhaps 3-13 will be bad enough for the top pick. It is possible that Manziel can be reasonably productive and the Browns still lose their last three games.

3. Another group of fans fall into the Mike Pettine camp, or at least they sound like the Browns coach when he talks about "trust issues" with Manziel. Even if Manziel plays well, these fans believe the Texas A&M product will do something to mess up a good situation. They want a new quarterback, and they want to start over.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...ncart_big-photo

I believe Jm is making progress and with continued maturity he can be our qb of the future provided we give him some better O weapons and a better D. However, I also have a feeling that if the rumors about trading him to Dallas come to fruition he will become a very good qb just based on he will be going home so to speak and the Cowboys themselves. JMHO. I really want him to become a very good qb here and have us win.

I want JM to have 3 great games to finish the season and the Browns to win every one. However what I want and what will probably happen are 2 different things. I don't think we have much of a chance in any of the remaining games but it could only be positive for us if JM plays well. Whether we decide to keep him or not it bodes well for the Browns if he has 3 very good games.

I want Manziel to look great these final three games. As far as winning, Just knock the Steelers out of the playoffs in week 17. That is our Super Bowl now.

[video:myspace]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IEPWb0_PhVI[/video]

3. Another group of fans fall into the Mike Pettine camp, or at least they sound like the Browns coach when he talks about "trust issues" with Manziel. Even if Manziel plays well, these fans believe the Texas A&M product will do something to mess up a good situation. They want a new quarterback, and they want to start over.

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im right there. i was serious about being done with the punk. can't have a QB that you can't trust. i hope he plays great so we can get something for him in the offseason.

I hope he plays great so we can put an end to the QB carousel.

I'll be happy if he just plays good, I would say great if he had a better group of receivers.

I really don't want to go through another first round pick wasted on a QB.

The QB play was not the problem this season, I can't believe I'm saying that...

If the Browns take a QB #1 overall it will be a wasted pick.

Really? Tom Brady was a 6th round pick...... One of these guys could very easily be the next great QB. Some guy taken late could blossom into a legendary player. Besides, there is no downside to taking a chance on a quarterback. They don't eat cap like they used to. Taking one every year until you find your franchise player isn't such a bad idea under the new rules......

That would be just fine with me, just not another first round bust.

I'm hoping Johnny will be a first round success story for this team..

What about all those spread QBs who don't have the learning curve you are talking about?

I have not seen any come in and be successful right away.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00/gamelog/2011/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00/gamelog/2011/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/2014/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariMa01/gamelog/2015/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrifRo01/gamelog/2012/

That argument is not real atrong.

Cam Newton struggled for a few years before he started looking like an elite QB. I will agree with him being a success story now. But, in Cleveland would we have given him the time?

Andy Dalton has been holding the Bengals back for years until this season. He was actually booed this summer at a Cincinnati celebrity appearance. So, would Cleveland have waited 5 years for the light to go on for him?

Derek Carr has looked decent I agree but 2 years in and they are not a playoff team.

Marcus Mariotta. Didn;t Johnny Manziel beat him head to head this year? I think so. Also, the book is still out out Mariotta they are contending with Cleveland for the #1 overall pick.

RG3. Caught lightning in a bottle year one. Here is your example for what a spraed QB can do. Then the NFL figured him out. He does not have the ability to read defenses. Bust!!!

Lets face facts Johnny was a better college QB than any coming out this year. The proof of that was the hiesman trophy. Took Texas A&M to New Years day bowl games. Startung to turn the corner in the NFL. Fans like you want him gone. Draft another spread QB and you will want that QB gone again 2 years from now.

Wow. You are really in the tank.

I never said he has proven to be the guy at this point. I said that despite how well he might play, some won't care.

I'm confused by your argument. Are you saying young QBs should be elite and lead their team to the playoffs day 1 and if not, they're not worth drafting high? You're kinda all over the place.

What I am saying is that no rookie QB coming from the spread offense will be better then what Manziel is year one.

Better in terms of more wins or better stats?

I can agree with this statement. I think it's ludicrous to rinse and repeat every 2 years and never commit to actually building an offense around the skillset of your QB. What we see in Russell Wilson could actually be Johnny Manziel if we had a competent GM and coaching staff. The problem we have today is not the QB.

If you use a 1st round pick on a QB, then it's a bad idea. If you use a 5th or 6th, I'm all for it!

Get Nate Sudfeld in a later round.

No harm at all, mac.

Thanks for defending those of us who want to give JM a chance instead of proclaiming him a bust and either trading or cutting him.

An open mind is a great thing. Thanks again, mac.

I think that Manziel stands a chance of being really good. He also stands a chance of completely sabotaging his own career, if he is not careful.

I hope that he gets all of his off the field issues straightened out, because I do think that he has the talent to be great, if he will just devote himself to that pursuit,

Johnny needs one more year before I will judge him on the field. Unfortunately people will be judging him for the rest of his life off the field.

Johnny is ultra-competitive, has a football IQ that is off the charts, is extremely quick and has a very good arm.

On the other hand he is somewhat undersized and, the big one, is prone to off-the field behavior that could screw the team.

I am becoming less worried about the behavior stuff, because it did not seem to affect his preparation this year, and I think at his age, you can grow out of a lot of that stuff. A lot of folks drink like alcoholics in college and in the year or two afterward and leave it behind as they mature. If you're doing that at 30, then you need a program and it might not work.

Right now, judging Johnny as if this was a rookie year, I think he has a chance to be really, really good. We would be crazy to scrap him.

i'm leaning towards giving johnny another year before we give up on him too. I think he has the football ability but to me even before the draft my main worry was always his off the field stuff ruining him and whether or not he can see the field well enough at his height.

I think if he can keep his head straight he will be fine.