DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Joe Haden question

When Joe Haden is in his form and rhythm, he, IMO, is a true lock down corner. The issue is, he always starts the season incredibly slow and now you factor he's a concussion factory, this may be a total wasted season for him.

Sad, factoring how much we were relying on him and how much we are paying him to be relied upon...

Haden probably only has about 16 games, a full seasons worth, of tape that show his potential to be a true shutdown corner ...over the course of several seasons. The guy just isn't a winner. He doesn't want it bad enough. I really don't care if he ever takes another snap for the Browns. He makes me nervous in a Ralph Brown kind of way every time he's on the field. He's really just an average football player with not a lot of "want to", IMO.

J/C about this part...

I detest it when someone says someone else doesn't "want it bad enough". How the hell do you, me or anyone else know what someone wants?

I don't like Haden and haven't for several years, but it's just because he's repeatedly torched IMO and has made a reputation of shutting down AJ Green a couple of times... it's certainly not because I don't think he wants it bad enough.

I don't know, Joe wears and displays his emotions a lot. When he makes/misses a play, when we lose a game, when he is being interviewed and etc - he's just not playing well. I wouldn't question his heart, Joe Haden's heart and will are actually the last thing I'd ever question.

He just isn't playing good football. But this is JMO. He's making too much money to be taking this long for him to get into zone, especially when all offseason he preached about starting the season fast. Outside his rookie season and maybe not even that, this has been his most dismal start of the season.

I like and respect you as a poster, but I disagree w/your take. I think Joe is not a winner. I think his off the field stuff is more important that his on field stuff.

I could be wrong. Just the feeling I get.

Haden is not a winner.

I don't think he's made one game changing play...something to secure or seal a win...since he's been here. He's certainly given up tons of big plays when the Browns could least expect it.

Joe has missed several games due to injury this season. The games he has played he has played hurt. He should have been put on IR but pettine is using him up in spite of injury because he is desperate and our backup options at CB are flat out horrible this year. The truth is that Pettine would rather ruin Joe's career than to let him sit and heal up like he needs to.

I disagree. He played like crap when healthy. You guys can try and blame Pet for everything, but I am telling you this.............firing him and replacing him w/another coach will not help the cause.

I warned you all before the season about our inferior talent. I hear you guys say.........agenda, negative nancy, hater, clueless, etc, etc.

Pfffttttt.............

It's not a talent issue. It's flat out bad coaching. I have never seen a Brown's team play such undisciplined football and just not care like this year's team has.

I totally disagree. It IS a talent issue and I have been trying to tell you guys that for quite some time. Now, you are all surprised by our poor play. LMAO..............

Okay.. I'll listen... pick our next roster.. prove to me that you know all the talent that will come here and how they will take us to the play-offs..

Like many of you posters that pat your selfs on the back... start showing me how your knowledge will change the losing to winning...

Call it..please. then I will pat you on the back too..

What is your problem tonight? I did not say I have all the answers as to how to improve the talent.

I said our talent is inferior.

Get the hell of my back. Now!

This.

No matter how many "pfffffts" are used it won't change this fact.

Really? Did you forget when Romeo was here?

And I don't care how many stupid ass posts that blame the coaching for our problems, it won't change how pathetic our talent is.

Wanna make a bet, Rish? Let's fire Pet today. Think the wins will increase w/a new coach?

Pffftttttttttttttt

IMO, it is far too simplistic to lay all the blame on our coaching. Scheme, injuries, inexperience, lack of top-notch talent, all are contributors and for which there is no apparent short-term answer...

I disagree. They are backups for a reason - inexperience, talent level, whatever. Our lack of an effective pass rush is severely impacting/degrading their performance. This is an issue for our starters, even when fully healthy. These backups will improve, but it is going to take time, and an overall better team performance.

A good pass rush can make bad corners look better.

No question! Our pass rush simply must improve; it may be our biggest problem at this moment...

It's been terrible. Can't get much pressure, let alone hurried throws and sacks.

CB's can help a little getting a bump on the receiver. Playing five yards off pretty much hands the offense a gift.

We knew from the end of last season our run defense and pass rush needed major overhauls...yet all we brought to OLB was Orchard...We essentially swapped out most of our Dline for rookies whom are struggling nightly and an undisciplined vet in Starks...I knew it once FA was over that we were in trouble

its not lack of talent that is causing sooo many penalties. That's a lack of focus and discipline at practice. Hell JT is even getting a ton of penalties. I am not saying we don't need better talent. We do. It's just a fact that this coaching staff is not using players to teh best of their abilities though.

Some on here state a lack of pass rush ... when are our pass rushers even rushing the passer. Seems like they are being told to drop back into coverage more than anything else. These coaches are too busy trying to be smart and be tricky instead of just letting these players do what they do best and let them at it. So of course they have become lack luster and don't give a chit anymore.

These coaches don't get back to fundamental football then they should be fired on the spot. I am sick of watching such horrible coaching and playing.

I could be wrong, you could be wrong - I don't know. I like to give Joe the benefit of the doubt, since I've listened to all his pressers for many years and have paid decent attention since he was actually drafted. He has made some insane defensive moves, its just he's playing so bad right now when he "is" playing. Jimmy O'Niel doesn't help him when he clearly needs it. We ask a lot of him in this scheme.

I don't know, there's always a chance he just doesn't got it in himself anymore after the payday. I cannot, as much as I'd like, tell you you're wrong...

I could be wrong. It's no big deal. We are just discussing. Thanks for being cool.

The people who questioned Haden are fake fans.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/on_joe_haden_and_andrew_hawkin.html

i wouldn't say fake fans.

but i'd say some overzealous ones.

On Joe Haden and Andrew Hawkins and what else takes a hit when some players get concussed



By Tom Reed, Cleveland.com
updated January 01, 2016 at 11:30 AM

BEREA, Ohio – Andrew Hawkins suffered his second concussion in a three-week span on Nov. 15. He absorbed a helmet-to-helmet hit so devastating it hospitalized him overnight and erased six hours of memory he hasn't regained.

The Browns receiver loves the game and plans to return to it, but it's going to take a little more time.

Joe Haden sustained his second concussion in a three-week span on Nov. 1. He took an inadvertent kick to the mouth from a Cardinals' receiver and developed dizziness and sensitivities to light and sound.

The Browns cornerback loves the game and plans to return to it, but it's going to take a little more time.

"The thing is everybody is learning about concussions as far as it goes on the fly," said Haden, who will miss his 10th game of the season Sunday due to multiple head injuries.

"With the (NFL concussion) protocol and with the way that they handle it, a lot of things are out of our hands. The thing that they have to educate people on is that there are different types of concussions, there are different lengths that people are going to be out and there are different ways to treat them . . ."

Haden's head isn't the only part of him to take a hit during this lost season for the two-time Pro Bowler. His reputation also has been targeted by a segment of a disgruntled fan base.

Some believe the corner is using the second concussion as a means of bailing out on his teammates and a season that started poorly for Haden. Hawkins called the claim "ridiculous" and said those people don't understand what players battling head trauma endure.

Haden, a six-year pro, is aware of the perception. He was asked Thursday if the fact some fans think he's "cashing it in" bothers him.

"More than you will ever know," Haden said in his first public comments since Nov. 1. "More than you will ever know just because it is ball. What do you mean 'cashing it in?' I don't get that. This is what I do. I love playing ball . . . Why would I do that now?"

Cleveland has become one of the NFL's epicenters for concussions, the biggest player-safety issue facing the game. The Browns have led the league in head traumas since the start of the 2012 season. A league-high 14 Browns have suffered them this year and the team's training staff is searching for answers as to why that might be.

Beyond the potential long-term health risks there is a stigma attached to concussions. Some just don't grasp why certain players take longer to recover. It's not just fans, either, but former players who were taught to "tough it out" when they had their "bell rung."

Three-time Super Bowl champion and ESPN-Cleveland radio talk-show host Je'Rod Cherry said, "If you're serious about winning you better play though some concussions." He's hardly alone in that thinking even as mounting medical evidence links serious health risk to repeated head trauma.




Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) is a form of brain decay that leads to memory loss, depression and dementia. Right now, it only can be diagnosed in the deceased, but Boston University researchers hope to develop tests to identify it among the living. The results could be a game changer for contact sports like football.

Three weeks ago, Haden said he visited a concussion specialist in Pittsburgh. He declined to speak on his treatment, but sounds confident he will return next season.

Haden is an emotional person. We've seen him nearly moved to tears discussing his frustrations following Browns' losses. His voice quivered on several occasions Thursday as he described being virtually confined to his home for long stretches as he waited for symptoms to abate.

"Anybody who says that I am cashing it in, I don't believe that is a die-hard fan," Haden said. "The thing that I had to realize was that people are going to say things. People are going to say whatever they want, but just knowing my teammates, people that know me and know what I stand for, know that's not what it is at all."

Haden said it pains him not to practice and play with teammates suffering through a brutal 3-12 campaign. He drew fire for missing a game earlier in the season with a broken finger before coming under attack for the long layoff due to the second concussion.

The corner was kicked by the Cardinals' Michael Floyd as he tried to tackle the receiver on a long touchdown reception. A cleat split open his bottom lip and required stitches.

Haden is the team's best defensive player and his absence has had a profound impact on a secondary that's struggled mightily.

"You see your dudes practicing, you see your dudes playing, you see them going out to the games," he said. "You can not only not be out there, but you can't be outside of your house. That whole situation was a little tough."

Hawkins is more educated on concussions than Haden or perhaps any player in the Browns' locker room. He spent a year researching the subject and had hoped to make a movie similar to the one Hollywood recently released (Concussion) starring Will Smith.

But Hawkins has learned plenty more about the unpredictable nature of an injury that offers no timetable for recovery. He's sustained two concussions this season, but the symptoms were completely different in each case.

The diminutive receiver was hammered by Steelers' linebacker Jarvis Jones while attempting to make a tackle on an interception return. Hawkins doesn't recall anything about the hit or the first six hours after it. His first memory was of a former college teammate visiting him in a Pittsburgh hospital.

" From a fan's perspective, I understand they want people on the field, but I would say you should be a little slower in accusing somebody of faking something that is kind of serious," Hawkins said.

" . . . Unless you've actually had a concussion or you have actually been hit in the head by a 275-pound defensive lineman who runs a 4.5, it's hard for you to make that distinction. It's hard for you say what's going on."

The 5-foot-7, 180-pounder is one of the league's true overachievers. The former undrafted free agent has played five seasons and a year ago signed a four-year, $13.6 million deal with the Browns.

Hawkins is married with a son. He plans to pursue a master's degree in sports management at Columbia University in the offseason and he works closely with baseball legend Derek Jeter on the board of the Players Tribune.

Hawkins was asked Thursday why he would risk his health, especially when he knows so much about brain trauma. His answer was eloquent and moving and reflected the conflict so many of his peers confront on a weekly basis.

"My brother used to tell me when I was coming up that football is a marriage that is guaranteed to end in divorce," Hawkins said. "There are guys in this locker room who have devoted 20 years of their 28-year lives to something -- and it's the only constant in their lives.

"To make that decision to up and walk away is probably not as easy as everyone thinks it is or it's not as black and white as everyone makes it out to be. Football is the longest relationship I've had with the exception of my family. It's been around longer than my wife, it's been around longer than my kids."

Hawkins and Haden will return next season. They will play a game for which they are richly compensated. They know the risks and rewards better than most.

And if some fans don't understand, Haden and Hawkins say, so be it. They aren't the ones needing to have their heads examined.
LINK

i think people who had concussions before understand that it lingers for a while.

the helmet only prevents so much.

i've had concussions before. the symptoms lasted a month at least. i can't imagine getting a concussion from nfl play. i can't imagine what it's like to get a cleat to the face.

i also don't know what it's like to get 2 concussions in 3 weeks. most people on this board don't, either.

thats why i don't say anything about players who get concussions. it's serious stuff.

Swish, agree. If you watch NHL, guys are out several weeks after suffering a concussion. I find it strange NFL players need just over a week. Maybe NHL is more violent.

Yes it is...Ive had 2 in my life...one training at Army Field Artillery Training Center at Fort Sill in 1983 I think...then again in 1986 at 29 Palms doing artillery training.

My head hurt for months and was basically told to suck it up buttercup...the 2nd time..I just didnt care what was said I was in bad shape for a long time...

Maybe thats what caused my problems I'm having now I'm half joking...I wish I wouldve known then what we are learning now about concussions I wouldve done things very differently back then.

Yeah, the die-hard fans are the ones who say Johnny is faking his concussion, call him Johnny Drunk, say he is an alcoholic and drug addict and then give Joe a pass.

must have missed when he went into rehab for 73 days... o thats right... johnny just did that for shi,,,poops and giggle lmao...

You must have missed when Joe was actually suspended by the NFL for a banned substance.

And that's relevant to his concussion, how?

What?

For those of you who wanted to get rid of Joe Haden, it's not happening. His contract for 2016 became fully guaranteed yesterday.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...heyre-important

It was guaranteed for injury anyway and he was injured. There was no getting away from that contract this year.

I don't remember a whole bunch of folks wanting him gone.. was there a lot?

I don't know if there were a lot, but there definitely some.