DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL.com article: Browns make Radical Changes

Isn't that what we've been doing for the past 16 seasons?

because of Haslam's ego

what coach would be willing to come here that is worthy of having that much control?

ok, Mac, what coach would be willing to come here that is worthy of having that much control?

My thoughts on this new structure are generally good thoughts.

Jimmy identified several issues within the organization. Pettiness, in fighting, The personnel side whining that the coaching side was not playing the players they thought they should ( can you blame the coaches? ) The coaches whining because the personnel side gave them crap and were meddling in their business (rightfully so again). Add in the poor performance by both sides and the apparent cliques that developed, see Morraco Brown firing, the entire front office was in general disarray. So how do you fix that?

We have over the past decade plus tried multiple variations of everything, a football czar ala Bill Purcells, the typical gm/hc structure and correct me if I am wrong, but was Butch Davis HC/GM all in one? Did any of those work here? When the entire organization is broken and diseased, replace it all with something different.

I read posts on other particular aspects of football that decried the general lack of anything new and/or innovative. People making comments that the game has grown stagnant because of this. It all starts with the business side and the organization structure. Jimmy is trying something new and different. Will it work? Who knows, I surely don't, and frankly, neither does anyone posting here, unless their last name is Nostradamus. I for one welcome something so new and different in the front office that it makes people stop and say "WTF is this?" If you keep going back to the same old well you will get the same old water. Shake it up a little and see what happens.

When you actually look at the new structure objectively, it makes sense. Sashi Brown may have the final say, but does that actually mean he will personally make the draft picks and FA signing and tell coach who the 53 are without consensus ? heres how I see it playing out....

Sashi Brown will be the eyes and ears for Jimmy. As an objective overseer to make sure that the school yard BS from the past 2 years doesnt happen. He will meet with the coach and GM and make sure they are on the same page, and if not, then work to make that happen. If that doesnt happen, then he make a decision based on the merits of the arguments.

moneyball man will take our scouting talent acquisition areas and make them more efficient and hopefully increase the odds of making the right moves.

Honestly, the doom and gloom is not warranted in my mind. It's not like we are tearing apart a perennial winner and starting from scratch, we are taking a rotting husk of a franchise and trying to rise it up from the ashes. To do so, in some cases takes some drastic actions and decisions. Besides, you never know, Jimmy may have just set the keystone to something revolutionary to football...or may have layed a big fat turd...only time will tell, so why not let it play out and see what happens?

While the whole world is tuned in waiting for this to fail,

Waiting?? hell alot have already declared it a failure...I'm excited for the first time since the return.

ok, Mac, what coach would be willing to come here that is worthy of having that much control?

My thoughts on this new structure are generally good thoughts.

Jimmy identified several issues within the organization. Pettiness, in fighting, The personnel side whining that the coaching side was not playing the players they thought they should ( can you blame the coaches? ) The coaches whining because the personnel side gave them crap and were meddling in their business (rightfully so again). Add in the poor performance by both sides and the apparent cliques that developed, see Morraco Brown firing, the entire front office was in general disarray. So how do you fix that?

We have over the past decade plus tried multiple variations of everything, a football czar ala Bill Purcells, the typical gm/hc structure and correct me if I am wrong, but was Butch Davis HC/GM all in one? Did any of those work here? When the entire organization is broken and diseased, replace it all with something different.

I read posts on other particular aspects of football that decried the general lack of anything new and/or innovative. People making comments that the game has grown stagnant because of this. It all starts with the business side and the organization structure. Jimmy is trying something new and different. Will it work? Who knows, I surely don't, and frankly, neither does anyone posting here, unless their last name is Nostradamus. I for one welcome something so new and different in the front office that it makes people stop and say "WTF is this?" If you keep going back to the same old well you will get the same old water. Shake it up a little and see what happens.

When you actually look at the new structure objectively, it makes sense. Sashi Brown may have the final say, but does that actually mean he will personally make the draft picks and FA signing and tell coach who the 53 are without consensus ? heres how I see it playing out....

Sashi Brown will be the eyes and ears for Jimmy. As an objective overseer to make sure that the school yard BS from the past 2 years doesnt happen. He will meet with the coach and GM and make sure they are on the same page, and if not, then work to make that happen. If that doesnt happen, then he make a decision based on the merits of the arguments.

moneyball man will take our scouting talent acquisition areas and make them more efficient and hopefully increase the odds of making the right moves.

Honestly, the doom and gloom is not warranted in my mind. It's not like we are tearing apart a perennial winner and starting from scratch, we are taking a rotting husk of a franchise and trying to rise it up from the ashes. To do so, in some cases takes some drastic actions and decisions. Besides, you never know, Jimmy may have just set the keystone to something revolutionary to football...or may have layed a big fat turd...only time will tell, so why not let it play out and see what happens?

I'm beginning to think that there is something wrong with Haslam...I'm serious...some kind addiction or a physical/mental issue like a tumor or something.

Waiting?? hell alot have already declared it a failure...I'm excited for the first time since the return.

Excited for what? A dog and pony show to keep the fans interested. The owner's wife is going to help pick the coach and GM....that's exciting. We've got a mish mash hierarchy with the ultimate say lying with a lawyer who's never been in such a position. I've been excited with almost every change since the return. This one leaves a sick feeling in my stomach.

I agree w/you about the state of things. However, I think FBH and the other guys are entitled to their optimism. FBH hasn't made fun of anyone or called them names.

He just wants to believe. I get that. Now, if he starts calling me a whiner.........all bets are off.

What teams are using analytics as heavily as we seem ready to do.

The Patriots.

That is the only 1 I can think of. They also have really bright football people, with Belichick making the final decisions on most football matters. Given how many people have left New England, only to struggle, I wonder how much is process, and how much is Belichick.

Or maybe, due to their analytics, they knew precisely the right time to get rid of people and the right time/person to bring in?

I find it extremely difficult to get behind this.

...

It's because I'm not sold that it's any different than any other regime change.

It will be interesting to see how their system works when Belichick (and/or Brady) retires.

It will be interesting to see how their system works when Belichick (and/or Brady) retires.

HC reports to Haslem
GM reports to Brown.

I think.

It's cool. We disagree, but no insults have been used as argumentative tools. And........I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Yes, this.

While this confuses me somewhat it's what they're doing.

Yes, this.

While this confuses me somewhat it's what they're doing.

It would be exactly like you to begin to think something like that.

But mac, you fit that description much better than Haslem.

Seems clear to me. The coach is higher in the pecking order. We aren't going to have a GM as many think like we had in the past. We are going to have a football guy giving his input on football players. He will have a big say in the draft room etc, but remember, the coach is going to have a say in who we hire for this position. When was the last time you heard of a employee hiring their boss?

Once you get the idea of a GM out of your heads, you'll better be able to wrap your minds around how it is going to work. Don't think of a GM like a Farmer or Heckert. Think of it as the top scout with a lot of pull in the room.

Who was the guy who worked for Butch Davis? I see it as something similar to that. Let's just hope we get a better guy.;)

Who was the guy who worked for Butch Davis? I see it as something similar to that. Let's just hope we get a better guy.;)

dub...have you ever seen a situation where an NFL owner showed signs of bazaar behavior only to find out later, that owner was dealing with an addiction issue..such as booze and/or drugs?

I have....

Exactly what is the bizarre behavior you speak of?


dub..have you ever known someone who began exhibiting odd behavior and asked yourself, wonder what's going on with that guy?...only to find out 8 months later or a year and half later, that individual was diagnosed with a brain tumor.

I have, twice...


Again, exactly what is this odd behavior you speak of?


dub...have you ever known someone who under mental strain panics or who exhibited terrible judgement or anger, very unlike their normal behavior?...only to learn later that individual needed medication to help them deal with a normal aging issue.

I have....


Yet again, what has he exhibited that is unlike his normal behavior?


dub...how easy is it to pick "one sentence" out of an entire post and then use it to attack another board member.

It's easy when that "one sentence" is just another of many sentences that make no sense but adds to the growing pile of other sentences that make no sense. At a certain point I feel like I need to say something.

Call it an attack if you will. But you are famous for coming up with bizarre conspiracy theories using flimsy evidence to back yourself up. This is yet another one of those. Now you claim that Haslem is behaving in a bizzare, odd manner and also beyond his normal tendencies.

Then, to complete, or add to, your theory, you cite addiction, mental illness or a physical tumor as possible reasons behind his behavior.

I would like you to explain exactly what those behaviors are and how they are skewed away from his normal behaviors. You are the one who made those claims, I'd like you to be the one to explain what you've seen from him that is evidence of your claim.



I'm guilty of thinking out load as I try to make sense of "why" the Browns have become the worst franchise in the NFL.


Your "thinking out loud" sounds like the ramblings of a mad man. You obviously don't like the recent turn of events so you're throwing any and every wild accusations out there and call it thinking out loud.

Thinking out loud should make some sense in a normal way.



I never said Haslam had an addiction, or a mental issue or a tumor, did I? ...and never wish one on him either, did I?


No you didn't, but you alluded to it.

You could just as easily have said he was abducted by aliens, had his brain removed, scrambled, replaced and then sent back to earth on a mission to destroy the football team and that would be no more idiotic than what you actually did say.



I've been on this earth long enough to learn a few things when trying to judge another's conduct or comments.


Sure, just as you did when you proclaimed that JF, in his post game presser, showed "absolutely no signs of a concussion", as though you are expert enough to diagnose him by watching a little video on your computer screen from miles and miles away with no personal contact nor examination whatsoever.

I called you on that when you said it but you ignored that because you had no good answer for it. Since you are so fond of links, at that time I posted you a link to a Traumatic Brain Injuries site, as well as posted a quote from that site saying symptoms of a concussion may not show up for days or even weeks after the incident. But that didn't stop you. You ignored that and pretended that you didn't see it.



Sometimes there are reasons for odd behavior that are not visible or known, at the time. On this subject, I'm sure that some have never experienced what I have and therefore making the comment I made seems like an attack on Haslam...it was not. If I have enemies on this board that want to try to spin it as an attack, so be it.


It's not that I doubt your experiences. I'm sure they're personal and I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

What I don't understand is what makes you attribute the odd, bizarre, out-of-the-norm behaviors you speak of to Haslem.

As is sometimes done, one builds a straw man and then develops arguments against it. I'm saying the odd behaviors is the straw man you built and your arguments are meant to explain it.

Poppycock!