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Unlike some others, this post would have fit on my "I Wonder..." thread.
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The part about reporting to Haslam, although I believe it's the Haslams is what worries me.
I just wonder how people can trust this guy after he has lied twice to us in two attempts?
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Good post SM3...to add to what you stated. We also tried it with Mangini and he was busy changing the organization inside with the power given to him. His hand picked GM Kokinos at the time thought of as an Up n Comer blew it apart as he had full control of the Personnel side while Mangini was putting his staff together as well as revamping the Organization. He didn't have time to properly prepare for the draft. FA he had a few guys he wanted here and it was on D on a 3 tier level. Somebody on DL somebody on LB somebody on DB vets to lead. But no time to investigate the NFL and he wanted to build it Long term from the draft...again Kokinos pretty much blew that plan up but the closest of achieving that Strong HC leading the team.
Also WOlf from Packer Fame often hired as a consultant. Said its all starts with the OFFICE of the organization and he explained it perfectly. They stay as the heads get cut off. The goals will change over the years so that the goal of the workers and we are talking from a receptionist to management. What eventually evolves is a Goal on a whole to survive. To not do anything to get fired.
He also stated this doesn't mean you go and fire everyone but you have to weed out those whose goals are not to help in anyway possible to bring this organization a championship. Because that is what you want to have an ENTIRE ORGANIZATION on one page - CHAMPIONSHIP!
Note Savage sort of mentioned this in his statement of what the Browns have evolved into. And we have cut off the heads so many times that a prevalent goal in the organization is not to get fired when we cut off the head again.
On the Football side you have to have 2 things (keeping it simple and short)
1. A super star HC.
2. A super star QB.
I think this is something obviously Haslam has been planning If Pettine improved on his record and took us 8-8 so to say. He would have been that HC as he would have made the same changes upstairs and Farmer would have been fired. The D let us down and it was Pettine's specialty.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Sure, just as you did when you proclaimed that JF, in his post game presser, showed "absolutely no signs of a concussion", as though you are expert enough to diagnose him by watching a little video on your computer screen from miles and miles away with no personal contact nor examination whatsoever.
I called you on that when you said it but you ignored that because you had no good answer for it. Since you are so fond of links, at that time I posted you a link to a Traumatic Brain Injuries site, as well as posted a quote from that site saying symptoms of a concussion may not show up for days or even weeks after the incident. But that didn't stop you. You ignored that and pretended that you didn't see it.
Yea, Johnny had a concussion and that is what made him get on a plane and party his ass off in Vegas, with a disguise.
...and now Johnny has been PRE JUDGED AND WRONGLY DISMISSED by Lebrone James' marketing company.
Dub..do you really believe Manziel had a concussion or do you believe Johnny had a plan to use his claim of a concussion as cover for his planned trip to Vegas?
Dub, you got a lot to learn...
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Sure, just as you did when you proclaimed that JF, in his post game presser, showed "absolutely no signs of a concussion", as though you are expert enough to diagnose him by watching a little video on your computer screen from miles and miles away with no personal contact nor examination whatsoever.
I called you on that when you said it but you ignored that because you had no good answer for it. Since you are so fond of links, at that time I posted you a link to a Traumatic Brain Injuries site, as well as posted a quote from that site saying symptoms of a concussion may not show up for days or even weeks after the incident. But that didn't stop you. You ignored that and pretended that you didn't see it.
Yea, Johnny had a concussion and that is what made him get on a plane and party his ass off in Vegas, with a disguise.
...and now Johnny has been PRE JUDGED AND WRONGLY DISMISSED by Lebrone James' marketing company.
Dub..do you really believe Manziel had a concussion or do you believe Johnny had a plan to use his claim of a concussion as cover for his planned trip to Vegas?
Dub, you got a lot to learn... Not for nothing, but there is a question as to whether or not Johnny went to vegas on Saturday. He was caught in N. Olmstead with expired tags on his car on Saturday... so his trip to Vegas might be smoke and mirrors. I'm not sure at all. But there is something brewing (no pun intended) with Manziel. LeBrons marketing firm just dropped him as a client.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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showed signs of bazaar behavior only to find out later, that owner was dealing with an addiction issue..such as booze and/or drugs? ...or shopping.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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dub...this above was enough for me to realize you have a lot to learn in life. Funny, I think the same thing when I read your posts. Dub..do you really believe Manziel had a concussion or do you believe Johnny had a plan to use his claim of a concussion as cover for his planned trip to Vegas?
So he outsmarted the independent Dr's in the concussion protocol Mac? and now Johnny has been PRE JUDGED AND WRONGLY DISMISSED by Lebrone James' marketing company.
Well Johnny kind of earned that...but its not the end of the world for him. Dub, you got a lot to learn... No offence Mac...but when I read your guys posts..I would take Dub's posts over yours just about 99.9% of the time...but I admit I'm a little slow and possibly have a lot to learn also.
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fb...I was not wrong on Manziel.
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He was caught in N. Olmstead with expired tags on his car on Saturday
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The book isnt finished being written on him yet...maybe you will end up being right...but I dont think he faked a concussion...the rest of what he is doing is retarded though....and if he is wanting out of here he probably couldve went to Haslam and told him so and got his wish. I actually agreed with you on some things you said about Johnny if you dont remember Mac...its all the rest of it I dont agree with you on Mac. 
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I actually agreed with you on some things you said about Johnny if you dont remember Mac...its all the rest of it I dont agree with you on Mac. tongue
This is not the first time I've stood alone with my opinions or virtually alone...and turned out to be correct with my thinking.
When someone provides legitimate proof otherwise, I will acknowledge it.
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FB...the fact that you do not agree with me on certain issues...does not mean I'm wrong to post what I think or that I'm not entitled to my opinion. Ive never said anything different Mac.
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"So he outsmarted the independent Dr's in the concussion protocol Mac?"
Not hard to do. There is no objective exam finding or lab work to definitively say yes/no to a concussion. If he complains of headache, blurry vision the light bothering him etc then there is no way to disprove that.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Sure, just as you did when you proclaimed that JF, in his post game presser, showed "absolutely no signs of a concussion", as though you are expert enough to diagnose him by watching a little video on your computer screen from miles and miles away with no personal contact nor examination whatsoever.
I called you on that when you said it but you ignored that because you had no good answer for it. Since you are so fond of links, at that time I posted you a link to a Traumatic Brain Injuries site, as well as posted a quote from that site saying symptoms of a concussion may not show up for days or even weeks after the incident. But that didn't stop you. You ignored that and pretended that you didn't see it.
Yea, Johnny had a concussion and that is what made him get on a plane and party his ass off in Vegas, with a disguise.
...and now Johnny has been PRE JUDGED AND WRONGLY DISMISSED by Lebrone James' marketing company.
Dub..do you really believe Manziel had a concussion or do you believe Johnny had a plan to use his claim of a concussion as cover for his planned trip to Vegas?
Dub, you got a lot to learn... I agree that I have a lot to learn. I've been that way was since I was a child. It never seems to let up. But somehow I'm doubting you are going to be the one to teach me. But let me tell you the story I'm making up. If Johnny did not have a concussion I think he'd have wanted to play vs Pittsburg. He seems to like to play. That's that about that. Now, can I subscribe to the notion, (conspiracy theory), that he had no concussion at all but devised a devious plan, on Wednesday, to claim a concussion, scheme his way past the doctors in the NFL Protocol, who are not team doctors, just so he could have Saturday night off to make a run to Vegas? No. Sorry mac. My mind doesn't put crap like that together just to hate on someone I already hate. If he went to Vegas at all he likely came up with that idea after being put on the concussion protocol. As the weekend neared it seemed like a good idea. Afterall, he wouldn't be benched, he's not cleared to play. He probably figured he could pull it off. Where he made his mistake, with me, whether he went to Vegas or not, (and if he did I wouldn't have cared), is he didn't show up in Berea on Sunday and he didn't attend the game on Sunday. I feel those two things were inexcusable. Beyond that, LeBrons marketing company dropped him. Bad. Real bad. You see how I didn't have to make anything up and only took into account things we know for sure? You, being a man who has to see a link when someone makes a statement as fact, of all people, should appreciate it if someone doesn't want to buy into the "fill-in-the-blanks" type of accusations. Now that we have a dialog going I'm going to ask you a question. Why after writing a long post to me and then me answering to your long post, (because you complained that the previous time I only responded to one sentence of yours), why did you only respond to the Johnny part of the discussion. Why did you not respond to the questions I asked about the claims you made regarding Haslem's odd, bizarre and skewed from normal behavior? I answered to every one of your points as you ticked them off in your post but you ignored that totally, as you often do, and focused on the one thing where you think you have a point, you don't. Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior. My analytics says it won't happen.
#gmstrong
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I get that part but damn..to fool the baseline...ok Ill concede the point...I just dont think it would be easy to do..but they sure are keeping players out and for long stretches to.
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Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior.
My analytics says it won't happen. 
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I think ddub made a good point that Johnny would actually want to play in the game. He likes playing football. He wouldn't miss a game just to take a trip to Vegas.
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I think ddub made a good point that Johnny would actually want to play in the game. He likes playing football. He wouldn't miss a game just to take a trip to Vegas. What I think also...finally gets to start and he is going to fake a concussion...I dont think so...he has never showed me anything that would suggest he doesnt want to actually be on the field...though I guess it could be argued the stunts he is pulling could say different 
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I think ddub made a good point that Johnny would actually want to play in the game. He likes playing football. He wouldn't miss a game just to take a trip to Vegas.
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He was caught in N. Olmstead with expired tags on his car on Saturday Or for that matter, it could have been on his way to the airport... Who knows..... That's why I said, I'm just not sure.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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vers...Johnny like his booze and babes more than football Well if you wouldve ended with Cleveland instead of football I would kind of be inclined to kind of agree.
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Clem I think those days of a Young, Accorsi, Wolf GM superstar is over. Now it seems the new breed want their say into the football. Its not just here, there is friction everywhere as in who is the BMIC. We see it in Tampa, Jets, Just about everywhere. Somewhere especially when there are losing seasons the two conflict with each other.
We are hiring the HC as the BMIC on the Football side sure we have these checks and balances but the GM per say that we are looking to Hire will be a TOP PERSONNEL guy that will work hand in hand with the HC and there would be coordination with both through Sashi.
If anything the guy who will restructure our Scouting and personnel department is this Petrino guy. I guess you can call him the GM. We are setting this up to eliminate frictions between upstairs and downstairs.
Those teams that have Continuity and when there was change it didn't involve a complete overhaul of Both Up n Down stairs. They can make this work. Because of the stability and talking Decade + of stability.
We don't have that and we are stuck in a loop now.
I don't know to the tee what we are going to do. But I do know we got some really talented people with Football background for Geeks/Nerds and I don't think they think they know enough to run the football side but can be the helpful brains to get what the football guys want to have done and eliminate all possible power struggles with the two...up and down stairs.
Once we have established stability then we can do certain things that we just cannot do now. Cause anything we created now would fall apart in the structure we had.
Its not so futuristic its just the first time we are restructuring what Carmen Policy created.
In that regard it might be a good thing.
In the worst case scenario its a NEW BEGINNING. Like making a move and starting over. With all the change, change, change we never really made a clean cut and started anew.
The other good in all this, its Haslam's baby in concept (for all we know this might have been Banner's view of the future and Haslam is trying to make it work??) but he has taken hold of it and is nowhere coming close to micromanaging it. But made the right hires.
Because of this - Haslam's baby - I think we are destined to see CONTINUITY and STABILITY as a result.
I agree in the wait and see attitude. I just don't see this "Danger Will Robinson Danger" out there.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"So he outsmarted the independent Dr's in the concussion protocol Mac?"
Not hard to do. There is no objective exam finding or lab work to definitively say yes/no to a concussion. If he complains of headache, blurry vision the light bothering him etc then there is no way to disprove that.
What doctor is going to tell a football player that he is not having headaches due to being hit in the helmet?
A doctor cannot diagnose a headache or that the light hurts your eyes or any number of symptoms. Today, the NFL is being so cautious with any symptom they do not hesitate to put a player in NFL concussion protocol.
...and those who doubt that players are taking advantage of the situation, you are very naive.
Last edited by mac; 01/07/16 11:47 AM.
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Plus I just read this... Jarvis, now at North Shore Medical Center in Miami, also said players were rumored to intentionally botch their baseline cognitive assessment tests during preseason, so they could pass the test more easily when actually concussed. I dont think Johnny faked his test...but who the heck knows...
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Unlike some others, this post would have fit on my "I Wonder..." thread. I banged it out juuuuust before I opened the "i Wonder" thread. I kinda chuckled when I read your thread starter. I appreciated ddubia's response to my post, and I wish I shared his optimism. I haven't had time to watch the vid he's mentioned, so maybe my attitude will change... ...but I've been depressed and frustrated 24/7 since Sun night... and all this new stuff I've heard hasn't yet done a thing to make me feel better about the immediate future. It's still a reboot. We'll still be hearing calls for patience while we go through our SEVENTH episode of "Growing Pains." I'm stepping back. Waaaay back... and taking a 'wait & see' approach. I can no longer afford a heavy emotional investment in this team. It's aging me too fast.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I see patients all the time that complain of pain. On a scale of 1-10 they report a 12, yet they are surfing the internet and cutting up with visitors. I know they are FOS. I know they just like their pain meds, but there is no way that I can prove that they aren't in pain.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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mac...
Why did you not respond to the questions I asked about the claims you made regarding Haslem's odd, bizarre and skewed from normal behavior? I answered to every one of your points as you ticked them off in your post but you ignored that totally, as you often do, and focused on the one thing where you think you have a point, you don't.
Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior.
My analytics says it won't happen.
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Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior.
My analytics says it won't happen.
And that's where analytics becomes a tiresome process. Most of us didn't need to use analytics: the eye/reading test worked just fine. I'm awesome.
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Yes you are. 
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Something I'm curious about. I would think the low % of drafting good players may sway the FO to trade for veterans in bad systems or unhappy with their current teams. I'm interested in seeing how Depo values draft picks. Does the odds of a pick working out going to be more then a veteran player. I can see them thinking that trading later or even mid picks for proven player is better value.
Best examples I can think of are the Randy Moss and Brandon Marshall trades.
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Totally agree with your take.
It's not like the Browns have not tried different routes.
People want to jump to conclusions before they have even seen the structure in place, the key personnel hired and the results of those changes ie. free agency and then the draft.
All the "to many cooks" remarks without even seeing them in action.
Position titles have little meaning until you actually see the implementation and the functionality.
People need to get a grip and see the results of the complete changes once they are in operating mode.
Like you stated it's not like they are breaking up the Patriots.
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All the "to many cooks" remarks without even seeing them in action. WTH are you talking about? The Haslams have already laid out the structure. Jesus!
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We have no idea how it will work in practice until the people are in their positions.
Let's see who they are able to hire.
Give it a chance.
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I am fine w/you giving it a chance. I don't trust them and that ain't changing until I see results. All I see right now is more of the same garbage.
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I think they should make a strong run at keeping DeFilippo as OC. Maybe that can not happen with a new HC.
One of the telling actions will be who can they hire?
I don't see Doug Marrone as a upgrade to Pettine.
Hell, I am so sick of losing and complaining and the depression that goes with being a Browns fan that I just want something good to take place.
Something to feel good about.
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mac...
Why did you not respond to the questions I asked about the claims you made regarding Haslem's odd, bizarre and skewed from normal behavior? I answered to every one of your points as you ticked them off in your post but you ignored that totally, as you often do, and focused on the one thing where you think you have a point, you don't.
Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior.
My analytics says it won't happen.
#gmstrong
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