DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How Johnny Manziel failed his last great audition

Is there an echo in here?

Chip would be all for the analytics thing.

Yeah, but Chip's offense sucks; he is terrible at player relations; he has been accused of being a racist; and he has demanded complete control.

Hell.........other than that.....he's great. LOL

This much we know about Manziel.He is unwilling to take the steps toward being a franchise QB.
Football is recreation for him. He doesn't embrace it like Brady, Carr, Bridgewater.
Manziel's work ethic is garbage. He's not driven to be the best.
everything in life has been handed to him.
Everyone has catered to him.
He rather go hit the night life than watch game film.
Johnny will have his defenders cause they can't stand up and say "I was wrong about him"
Helen Keller could have seen he wasn't franchise QB material.
but then again the same you can say for Couch Frye Weeden

epic post

I didn't think his offense sucked. I think the guys the he chose for it when he played GM didn't come close to fitting it.

Other than that, I agree with the rest of that statement and that's too much drama for the Browns.

Didn't Kelly decline an interview with us a couple of years back?

Just trying to remember. Either way, no interest in him.

Very well said, mac...

+1

Let me add some additional things from my perspective:

* If he was concussed in the KC game there is viable evidence and history of related insane behavior associated with such tramas. I will be glad to write a dissertation on a specific example of a tragic incident with a player I am very familiar with. (Titus Young)

* He is 23

* He has substance abuse issues that he just begun to scrape the surface of trying to deal with.

* He is alone. He shouldn't be, and when he isn't, he should never be around the jerks he hangs out with. Especially that diva chick. It has to be restricted.

* I posted a thread, Can Johnny Step Up into the Pocket and Make an NFL Throw? Then I answered my question with a NO. After he got on the field this year the answer had to be changed. He developed that ability. Incredible.

I'm so angry, so let down over what he did I'm beside myself. But, my concern is the Browns. I'm not sure my emotions should immediately dictate we should throw away something that could end up being our destiny. I want the curse of Paul Brown driven out of the stadium, out of Cleveland. Some of you are just plain mad. That's understandable. So was, am, I.

Play this out. Let him rot on the bench or in the box in street clothes. Release him, trade him for a "6th" or "7th" at this time? Because we all are really pissed? Really embarrassed? We've been embarrassed for 25 years. We're good at it. Relax and let this play. Screw the media bozos.

Wait! What? People liked and agreed w/this crap?

I am one of the few who has defended Manziel. I think hundreds of posters can tell you that I was mad as heck that we chose Johnny over Teddy. I think hundreds of people can tell you that I have complained about Farmer's first round picks over and over and over.

So, don't hand me that garbage. I just don't like the mob mentality. It seems too many people are taking pleasure of kicking a guy when he is down. When is enough.....enough?

He's the next Russell Wilson.
He Has a cold.
They need to put this kid in! He can't learn from the bench!
Can't a kid have a beer every now and then even though he's just out of rehab?
It's not his fault he can't see over the offensive line.
He's still technically a rookie cause he was in rehab in the off-season.
You don't know that drinking was what he was in rehab for.
He's the next Drew Brees.
You gotta let Johnny be Johnny. Don't keep him in the pocket!
That looked like an energy drink in the video.
You didn't actually see him drink it in the video.
It's the media's fault.
It's his girlfriend's fault.
It's Pettine's fault.
It's Flip's fault.

forget the best one . in the bathroom he was just unrolling the last of his money...

He has that personality where he's gonna take 2 steps foward and 3.5 back.
No matter where's he's been he always been larger than whatever is occurring around him or the arena around him.
He will always put Johnny before whats best for the team.
The football doesn't need Johnny.
His off the field actions in college tell and pro tell me
He cannot dedicate himself to putting a team on his back.
Theres too much work and prep involved.
Working hard for the betterment of the team...that's not in his DNA.

Mac

If Johnny gets on the road to recovery there will be relapses, times where he falls flat on his face.

Even in the best case scenario, he will find himself stiff, sore as hell, alone in a freezing Cleveland, and the drive to go out get drunk or stoned, and b*#g a hot bar chick will be irresistible.

He can grow, mature, and be a championship NFL quarterback. But, he would have to be able to let all this negativity and hatred slide off his shoulders. That's the best case scenario.

Maybe you guys are right. There is no hope. After all, the one thing we are really good at is negative hatred. The one solid coach we've had since the renewal -- we drove to a nervous breakdown.

I think the issue is that his defenders haven't been proven wrong about him just yet.

That is very questionable. small, never played 3 games in a row without getting hurt, tendenites, alone make him very risky.

Pblack
Fair enough.

device

One of the unspoken rules of the board. When someone is driving an agenda we don't respond with reasonable common sense. We just allow them to run over us and divert the obvious.

What we have in Johnny is the second coming of Joe Willie Namath and we can't handle it. Joe Namath had a QB rating of 39.9 in his second year and liked to party. Cleveland would have fired him.

I hate to have to watch our previous players in the playoffs every year wearing someone else's uniform.

Johnny may not fit the mold but he holds the keys to playoff Heaven.

If you want a Priest for QB, go for it, but I will watch Johnny Football, in a different jersey, light his butt up on Sundays.

We don't even need an analytics dept to know that Johnny will be lit on most Sundays.

First of all, Namath's QB rating in 1966 (his second year) was 62.6. (Side note: He made the Pro Bowl his rookie year with a QB rating of 68.7).

Second, you might live in a world where things are the same now as they were in 1966. The rest of us don't. We live in the real world, where things have changed in the last fifty years. In this world (the real world), your QB cannot do what Manziel has done. (Although Manziel could probably get away with most of his antics on The Real World.)

mac...

Why did you not respond to the questions I asked about the claims you made regarding Haslem's odd, bizarre and skewed from normal behavior? I answered to every one of your points as you ticked them off in your post but you ignored that totally, as you often do, and focused on the one thing where you think you have a point, you don't.

Based partly on our history of discussions over the years, and in the spirit of the Browns new organizational set-up, I've used analytics to determine the likely hood that you would respond to me explaining exactly what you mean, using examples, of Haslem's odd, bizarre and abnormal behavior.

My analytics says it won't happen.

Crap, I was looking at his passing stats for 1976. QB rating of 39.9

J/C

Joe Namath also threw more INTs (220) in his career than TDs (173)!

These are things we should be trying to replicate! Because it's 1966!

Just replicate his Superbowl Ring so we can see what one looks like.

I don't want one of those crappy old ones. I want a new one.

You forgot to mention he has NO Defense helping him and NO line that can block for more than 2 seconds.

Yea, I'm mad.

Boys got talent tho!

There is no NFL rule broken by having a rolled up 20. If he would have got arrested or if there was coke in the picture, it would have been different, but they can't put him in the program for what they assume he was doing.

Bernie Kosar's career QB Rating was an 81.8. Like you said, different era. In those days, DBs could mug receivers all over the field and not get called for it.

Better give me the keys to the Abrams in that case, 40'...

I'd feel a lot better right now if all we had was an old one.

It is unclear. In the actual NFL substance abuse policy, there is some writing about how a player can be entered into the substance abuse program (with no penalty) for behavioral reasons. What exactly those behaviors are and how much discretion the program director has, I'm not sure. There is a possibility that picture got him into the program.

For eotab's question, if he has such a problem why hasn't he gotten busted? It has been a while since I read through the policy but here are some facts:

- For players who are not in the program (i.e. the large majority of NFL players), they get tested for recreational substances exactly once a year, always in the off-season. Once they pass their test, they can essentially use whatever recreational drugs they want as they are not subjected to any more tests until 4/20 the following year (yes, that is really the date).

- Most players who are in the program are *not* forbidden from drinking alcohol. If Johnny was in the program for that picture, he would not be forbidden to drink and that seems like his big problem. As I understand it, only players who have had alcohol related crimes (e.g. DUI) are banned from drinking and even then the tests are subject to a .06 threshold.

- Finally, players in stage 1 or 2 of the substance abuse program can get out of the program after a certain amount of time. I believe the last CBA also made this possible for players in stage 3 of the program whereas in the past, a player would have been in stage 3 for the rest of his career.

The way I see it:

If the Browns are smart and don't play into his and jerry's hands, they hold on to him for at least awhile.

Johnny absolutely has to come out publicly and apologize to the fans of Cleveland.

He has to come clean about his problem.

He has to take responsibility to re-admitting himself to Caron.

He has to assure us that he is going to take his recovery as serious as possible.

He has to assure us he will continue to work as hard as he did this fall, or harder, on football, film, and his game.

He needs to sum it up and convince us he is willing to do whatever it takes to clean this up and take advantage of his position on the Cleveland Browns. Whether he knows it or not, he needs us more than we need him. Going to Dallas under these conditions is a recipe for disaster.

For me to have any hope, any hope whatsoever, this is the bare minimum of what I would need to hear/see.