DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum QB choices

I didn't mention Cousins because I don't think there's a snowball's chance in HECK he hits the market. I believe during the last ten games of the season he played about as well as anyone in the league. That's crazy, and ten games is probably enough to justify commitment by a franchise. (Unless it's Derek Anderson and you're the Browns. Funny thing about Anderson...I'd love him back in Cleveland, but that's not going to happen)

Same thing with Stafford. There was a time I thought the Lions might actually try a total "reboot", including trading Stafford for picks, but I don't see that happening anymore. The one guy I COULD see being available was Drew Brees, but if the Saints are intent on keeping Sean Payton, then it's likely Brees stays as well. With the coaching carousel coming to a halt, and Payton's apparent return to New Orleans, I don't see them parting ways with Brees. Brees is also no spring chicken, and has injury concerns as well. Bottom line, I don't see a veteran coming to Cleveland. At least not one that gets people excited.

The difficult part for a team like us is struggling with "needing" a younger QB, but not really having a bumper crop to choose from in the draft. Our options are limited, and this conundrum is common among losing teams. Nothing will change until we get our guy, and that's pretty much the bottom line.

We're going to bring in a new QB, whether it's from the draft or free agency/trade. Let's hope our new front office can make some magic happen...because we need to pull one out of a hat.

All I know is that I think there isn't a qb close to being worth a top 15 pick in this year's draft.

Agreed

we have time now - we could move back get Mack and have two first rounders next year to package for Deshaun (or whoever makes sense)

But to think our new leadership wants or believes we can get it all done in this draft seems shortsighted old Browns thinking.

Deshaun Watson is a shorter Vince Young. No thanks.

That's racist :-)



I qualified my statement with a "whoever make sense" deshaun is just the current leader of a much better crop of 2017 QB talent

Wasting a chip like #2 to draft a need in a weak QB class seems like bad business

No problem w/you disagreeing, but my view is that his arm is below average and he throws into coverages too often. That is a terrible combination considering the speed and complexity of NFL secondaries.

would you trade for one of the QB's that might be available in the off season, and just draft a project in the 2nd round?

We'll be saying the 2017 draft class is weak too.

I really don't know, Swish. I really don't see a qb that I would take before the 3rd or 4th round. I also don't know who will be available in the NFL.

I know this is going to upset you, but as of right now.........I would roll w/McCown, Manziel, and Davis. I would hope that Hue could get Manziel to become the player he is capable of being.

I know the odds are long of that happening, but it won't cost us a high draft picks or multiple draft picks if we trade for a guy.

I think we could address the WR and impact pass rusher this year while developing the rest of our roster and make a move next year for a qb should JM fail once again.

I know no one wants to hear that, but as of right now, I think that is the best----and safest---option.

Give me a minute to put my suit of armor on before y'all go off on me.

in the chance that we keep manziel....

then the guy just needs to start. tell him he's the starter, tell him unless he completely stinks up the field on a consistent basis, he's gonna be the starter week in and week out, a chance to grow, and earn back the trust of his team mates.

Hue jackson seems to be a QB whisperer. if he can't manage to get manziel to play to his potential, then nobody can.


i'd keep mccown too.

however, i wouldn't be opposed if they tried to bring a guy like AJ McCarron, or the backup from the Titans.

i've said this before, but while Cam newton hasn't done nearly the stuff manziel has, he did have tons of maturity problems when he came into the league. but being the stater, knowing he was the guy, he didn't just turn into a great QB, he turned into a great leader.

no matter what, the panthers stuck with Cam, and now look where they are at.

Same thing with Winston. all that crap in college, he comes to the league, got and secured in his starting role from day one.

not one word from him. he's been a choir boy.

Forget Manziel! Other than that, you are spot on. Use McCown, Davis, and Shaw move forward building the roster. Take a flyer on Nate Sudfeld mid round.

Food for thought edge rusher or corner? Seeing how Seattle is built and having someone who can pick up the slack when Haden goes down. One can make a strong argument for both.

You mention Seattle, well how about how Carolina was built?

IMO the QB position going into 2016 is a foregone conclusion. There's a reason we landed a top candidate as our HC. It's not simply because of "some love between the powers that be". It's because there were certain guarantees that were made to Hue.

No matter what was said in his press conference, you can bet that Hue spelled out what he wanted to do going forward especially with the O. You can also bet the FO with all of it's many prongs agreed to what Hue spelled out.

JFF his not his type of QB. McCown is a band aid at best. So you can bet on the fact that our new QB will come from this draft class and will be a huge priority going forward.

Hue didn't choose to refuse other interviews and decide to sign here based on warm, fuzzy feelings. He didn't sign here as HC because of our success and stability at the QB position. He signed here because he was given the power and opportunity to build the team he wants to build.

This would be the best time ever to predict we will select Goff in the draft no matter our feelings on the matter or what we think about it.

While people continue to suggest that the Bengals selected Dalton in the second round and somehow that ties into Hue are mistaken. Hue didn't have the power or influence to impact the Dalton pick at the time. It wasn't his doing.

No, Hue knew what he wanted when he entered the interview with the Browns. Had he of not gotten what he wanted, he wouldn't be here now.

I heard that Hue likes QB's with a big arm and mobility. That would put Lynch and Wentz above Goff and Cook in the big 4.

I still don't see us drafting a QB in round 1 unless we trade down.

He's also coached Jason Campbell and Andy Dalton.

gotta be able to throw the deep ball wih accuracy and he is finding ways to use mobility to add other dimensions to us offense. Its his choice for QB but Goff isnt a fit at all.

I think Wentz is likely to be his guy if we draft a QB but Johnny throws one hell of a deep ball and Hue is a bit of a headcase himself lol I think out of all the coaches we could have hired, Hue is the only one that may be willing to give Johnny a chance.

I know the report was out there that Hue wanted to cut bait with Johnny but he refutted it twice, no one just bothered to listen to his words and they still tweet the original tweet that said he was done.

I hope he can work with Mingo, Manziel, Gilbert, Cam, Shelton and get these guys playing at the level they are capable of. You gotta develop talent at this level and we havent done that.

dont want a manziel debate on this one as i can understand either side but Johnny's has a lifeline and its a sit down with Hue. Hue holds the kids career in his hand.

If the Browns move on from Johnny...

Philadelphia has an interesting scenario. 2 QB's brought in by a coach who is no longer there. Bradford is a FA. Sanchez has another year.

If Eagles resign Bradford, then I would think you could get Sanchez from them, although Bradford has been known to get hurt.

I think either guy is capable of leading a team thru the playoffs and into the super bowl. Sanchez almost did it twice.

If we get one in the draft, Wentz needs to be the guy.

Manziel v Goff

Straight up talent wise in camp - I think Manziel wins



Manziel and Goff are 1b talents


I just dont think the team is in a position to use another first rounder for a QB - now a late round flyer on a talent our brain trust likes - sure whatever

if I had my way I would get fitzpatrick in for his swan song until we find our savior ;-)

Start McCown, give Manziel one last chance, draft and groom Cardale Jones for the future.

To me, this sounds like just about the worst possible scenario.

not upset at all. that would be fine if we want the #1 pick in 2017 draft. JMO

There's a new kid in town. "everybody's talking about the new kid in town. People started talking about the new kid in town. " Johnny come lately, there's a new kid in town, and everybody loves him, and he's all they want, but your still around---, everybody's talking about the New Kid In Town. "

(A song by the eagles)

I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure of this, Manziel is > McCown

Manziel is > McCown
Manziel is > Osweiler
Manziel is > Goff
Manziel is > Austin Davis
Manziel is > Connor Cook
Manziel is > RG 3
Manziel is > Bradford
Manziel is > Kaepernick
Manziel is > Wentz
Manziel is > McCoy
Manziel is > Brady Quinn
Manziel is > Lynch
Manziel is > Derrek Anderson
Manziel is > Charlie Frye.

But I still think that he isn't as good as these.
Manziel is < Mathew Stafford
Manziel is < Ryan Tannehil
Manziel is < Tom Brady
Manziel is < Ben Roethlisburger, But it really doesn't matter what I'm pretty sure of...

And I'm not sure what the Browns will do. But I do wonder and ask this question.

Does this move help them beat Pittsburgh.

Does Hue Jackson being head coach help them beat Pittsburgh?
Does a rookie quarterback possibility of being drafted help them beat Pittsburgh

Does Josh McCown who will put up good stats during a long losing streak help the team beat Pittsburgh?

Does using a choice on another Qb which could be used on an offensive skilled position, only to give you another rookie Qb in need of as much care and development as Manziel needed when he joined the team; help you beat Pittsburgh?

Does making Sashi Brown, whatever Sashi is help the team beat Pittsburgh?

Does throwing the ball way too much and not sticking to a running game that could be helped with the addition of a top runningback, or even a deep safety drawing Wideout; help you beat Pittsburgh?

Does blowing up the structure by replacing the top, which without a doubt always, as is evidenced by the last 5 times it's been done, causes a complete changeover down to the bottom at most, to every, position on the roster; help you beat Pittsburgh?

And if you can't see a winner when you have a winner right in front of you,
Well why can't you see a winner when you have a winner right in front of you? Is it pride? Having to be right?

And is being right while getting rid of a winner going to help you beat Pittsburgh?

And if Winning the divisin, making the playoffs, and more isn't the #1 priority, then why should I spend 1 dollar on this team?

(Some news account I heard said, " Tom Coughlin was let go after 9 years , 2 superbowls, and missing the playoffs 4 years in a row.")

All I ask, is when did the last Browns coach miss the playoffs 4 years in a row? Was it before Sam Rutigliano?

There is not a 4th year anything on the Browns. Anything.

How are fans supposed to root for a team that has no identity?

There's a new kid in town. "everybody's talking about the new kid in town. People started talking about the new kid in town. " Johnny come lately, there's a new kid in town, and everybody loves him, and he's all they want, but your still around---, everybody's talking about the New Kid In Town. "

(A song by the eagles)

I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure of this, Manziel is > McCown

Manziel is > McCown
Manziel is > Osweiler
Manziel is > Goff
Manziel is > Austin Davis
Manziel is > Connor Cook
Manziel is > RG 3
Manziel is > Bradford
Manziel is > Kaepernick
Manziel is > Wentz
Manziel is > McCoy
Manziel is > Brady Quinn
Manziel is > Lynch
Manziel is > Derrek Anderson
Manziel is > Charlie Frye.

But I still think that he isn't as good as these.
Manziel is < Mathew Stafford
Manziel is < Ryan Tannehil
Manziel is < Tom Brady
Manziel is < Ben Roethlisburger, But it really doesn't matter what I'm pretty sure of...

And I'm not sure what the Browns will do. But I do wonder and ask this question.

Does this move help them beat Pittsburgh.

Does Hue Jackson being head coach help them beat Pittsburgh?
Does a rookie quarterback possibility of being drafted help them beat Pittsburgh

Does Josh McCown who will put up good stats during a long losing streak help the team beat Pittsburgh?

Does using a choice on another Qb which could be used on an offensive skilled position, only to give you another rookie Qb in need of as much care and development as Manziel needed when he joined the team; help you beat Pittsburgh?

Does making Sashi Brown, whatever Sashi is help the team beat Pittsburgh?

Does throwing the ball way too much and not sticking to a running game that could be helped with the addition of a top runningback, or even a deep safety drawing Wideout; help you beat Pittsburgh?

Does blowing up the structure by replacing the top, which without a doubt always, as is evidenced by the last 5 times it's been done, causes a complete changeover down to the bottom at most, to every, position on the roster; help you beat Pittsburgh?

And if you can't see a winner when you have a winner right in front of you,
Well why can't you see a winner when you have a winner right in front of you? Is it pride? Having to be right?

And is being right while getting rid of a winner going to help you beat Pittsburgh?

And if Winning the divisin, making the playoffs, and more isn't the #1 priority, then why should I spend 1 dollar on this team?

(Some news account I heard said, " Tom Coughlin was let go after 9 years , 2 superbowls, and missing the playoffs 4 years in a row.")

All I ask, is when did the last Browns coach miss the playoffs 4 years in a row? Was it before Sam Rutigliano?

There is not a 4th year anything on the Browns. Anything.

How are fans supposed to root for a team that has no identity?

Every team was built the same way, by having a run of drafting quality players, game changing quality players... whether the QB came before the OT or the WR is irrelevant, it's been done every way. The fact is you have to have a 2-3 year run on quality players where you get 4 or 5, that's what turns a 3 win team into a 10 or 11 win team in a couple years.

They don't all have to be at the top of the draft but it's anticipated that most of them will be. Hell Carolina did what they did this year without Kelvin Benjamin, their best WR...

I can get on board with this, as long as JFF is on board with putting in the work needed to become an NFL QB.

In this scenario, what do you think of getting a QB later in the draft? Anyone you would take a flyer on?

I don't understand the lovefest for Cardale Jones.

It's not that I love him. It's that I don't love Goff, Lynch, Cook, or Wentz. Jones we could probably get later and he has tools to work with.

You sir are outrageous!

A radical wildcard.

A renegade rebel who cares nothing for civility and goodness.

Repent! Repent or burn forever!!!

Or just to be rid of him. Putrid distraction. We could bundle him with Bowe, but we might miss his production. A clean slate smells very attractive to me for TC.

Are you ready for some football?

We are about to see what scheme might mean on defense for this underachieving defense perhaps. I think some of those just cannot do it on D, especially the edge folks.
Prove me wrong. But the tame way we used huge cushions, dropped linemen, and the list goes on was maddening. I think we need to aggressively challenge teams, and we have not. Be brutal in a division that requires it. We wait, watch, and react late. No pass rush for sacks to speak of. Turn up the heat on the defense. I would rather keep hard workers on offense; I hope he can toughen them up and skill them up.

Dang it! There I go getting all hopeful again. Can't wait to see who is brought in for coaches. Tabor wasn't one of my choices to go forward.

At this particular point in time, I can't make an honest evaluation, Cap. I haven't studied the lower ranked guys. You might want to ask guys like steve, Jester, Deputy, W8, etc for their opinions. I will work my way down the list and let you know later.

What I do know is that buyer beware w/the top guys. We've seen past love affairs w/guys like Ponder, Gino Smith, Manuel, Gabbert, Locker, Harrington, etc

It's not that I am a huge JM fan.......I just think we have too many pressing needs to gamble on qbs that have big holes in their games.

J/C
I readily admit I'm a Penn State guy, but I honestly don't know what to make of Hackenberg. He looked so good as a freshman under O'Brien and regressed each year since under cheerleader head coach James Franklin. Can he, with the right coaching, become a top NFL QB? If so, is he a good pick in the 3rd, or is he gone by then based on potential? It's so hard to take off the homer glasses regardless of team!

I've watched Goff a lot.

The first red flag that came to mind, and is still is the one about him that concerns me the most is, the guy doesn't seem to have a pulse at times. His zen esque demenor is so low key that I have always wondered if he has the fire to lead my team to a Super Bowl. Man, you've got to have some fire to be a winner, to be The Guy, to simply play that position, in that league. He is however very smooth. Footwork, throwing motion, release, he can play quarterback. Versatile, you are right. He does make stupid throws into coverage. Two other quarterbacks who did that all the time, their senior years, were Andrew Luck and Marcus Mariota. Both those guys became much better quarterbacks months after they were in the NFL, in my opinion. He does have potential to be a very accurate and effective thrower. He has a weak arm? I don't see that.

Remember when I tried to put myself out and battle all the haters about Manziel's second half against the Bengals? The Crown Prince of the Thread Hijack got his undies all wet and the Ref took a stand for free speech, great discussion, and courageously trashed it.

(I wonder why the ol guard don't post anymore?)

Well, Hue Jackson knows what it was I was getting at. The points I would have made. He knows if he goes back to that game he will see many things that could make decisions more complicated and difficult than many people want to look at.

You don't have to be a Manziel supporter, pimp, or brainwashed zombie to observe the facts.

Draft Goff if we have to.

Manziel should have come clean and apologized 10 days ago. He should already be in his 5th day back at Caron by now. It was probably his only chance to possibly salvage the mess he's made. The mess he and the Browns have made. A good PR and marketing machine should have ran the concussion angle hard, really hard. The incompetent Brown's administration should have gotten him away from LeBron's posse (surround the kid with top professionals), They should have shipped in Mom, Dad, Sister, Grandpa, to circle the wagons. He is still a kid, that is what he is. It doesn't matter if we don't like it. Get real, he is a kid. We managed him "like a Brown" (sorry Mike)

Before Chip Kelly was let go by the Eagles, and after the Kansas City game, we could have gotten at least a top 2nd for him, maybe even the Cowboys 1st if a tough owner could have played Kelly and Jerry against each other. But, that is conjecture/speculation -- yet look how far we've fallen.

Many of you guys just want to dump him so you will feel better. You will feel better for about 5 minutes. That's really what it ultimately comes down to.

Draft Goff if we need to. Have Manziel run the scout team and not dress for games for all I care. But, releasing him because some Browns hating sports journalist will make you feel better for 5 minutes is just stupid. Browns stupid.


___________________________________________

Bosa, Bosa, Bosa, why isn't Ezekiel Elliot being discussed?

JC....

I am impressed with Goff's pocket presence, and he is accurate and smart. I don't see a weak arm, but it is rather average. He does make the bonehead throw, but I wonder how much of that is because he is trying to make a play considering the lack of talent around him.

Cook and Lynch I want no part of. I would take a 2nd/3rd round flier on Lynch but wouldn't touch Cook at all....he does nothing well.

Personally, I would take Bosa at 2 and take flier on someone later. However, I certainly understand if they go with Goff.....better be right though or tOSU fans will be out for blood...lol.

keep up the good fight, i for one support you wholeheartedly and admire your fortitude.

I have been busy so maybe I missed it. It was reported somewhere (possibly Peter King) that Manziel may have been faking the whole concussion to avoid playing the final game? I saw a brief headline or quote and then I haven't noticed anything further on that aspect of the Manziel issue. I have supported JM through everything but if there is even a hint that he did this, I would want him gone.

Hue has a big decision to make.

If he drafts any QB before the 3rd round.. They are linked forever.

So are any of these QBs coming out this year worth basing your HCing career on?

I am now of the opinion, that if we take someone at #2 or #32, they better be ready to start, even if they arent..

All these other teams are throwing QBs out there, and are better for it years later. The time for "sit an learn" is over.