DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum QB choices

That holds true not only for the coach but the front office as well.

I just don't see the collective leadership believing it is prudent

Year one they get a pass as they install the system - year two/ three they can battle expectations and if the narrative is "if only they had a QB" - you are in good shape.

We are not a "Superb Owl" team in the next 3 - Goff does nothing to change that

Here are some thoughts on mid to late round Qb's. For now I am just going to list into categories. I am just too tired this am to go too in-depth. I have given my thoughts on some of them in other posts. I will try to get back and give a synapsis on all of them. One of the issues with that is finding film on some of these guys. I love draftbreakdown but they are slow getting their game footage up and they start with the bigger name players. A lot of these guys am projuecting on very limited viewing.



Guys I like

Jeff Driskell La Tech - note that BpG doesn't care much for him

Brandon Allen Arkansas - Good arm, good but not great accuracy, Biggest question to me is his field vision. Saw one play where he throws to a guy who is quite well covered while literally 10 yards down the field was another wr breaking away from his defender. Would have been a td if he throws to the right guy instead incompletion. I don't think he always sees the defenders and I think he wil throw a lot of pick-6's in the NFL if he can't fix this.



Guys I don't like

Sudfeld - Indiana - Accuracy issues
Frohnapfel - Umass Amhurst - Weak arm
Keeton - Utah st - Very very slow release
Doughty - W Kentucky - weak arm



Guys I'm just not sure about

Kessler USC - looks pretty good at times, not so good at others. Will the real Cody please standup

Hogan Stanford - Smart, I was really high on him as a sophomore but he hasn't developed as I had hoped. Hard to put a finger on what specifically I don't like. It's been a while since I watched him. Maybe if I review his film again I will be able to pick something out, or perhaps move hime into the like category. For now let's say there's just something missing. Crappy answer, kind of like a gut feeling.

Brissett - I haven't seen him at all this year. Guy is kind of enigmatic to me. Saw him last year vs FSU and thought he should go #1 overall. Quite impressive. But then saw a couple more games and couldn't figure out how he even got on the field it was so bad. I have never encountered such extremes in performance.

Dak Prescott - I know a lot of you guys are liking him. Good arm, don't love his accuracy. Has a tendency to throw while off balance. Can a good qb coach fix this issue?



Guys I want to see more of. These are guys have a seen very little of but they have good size and some zip on their throws but I may have literally seen less than 10 throws from these guys. For some of them it's easier to find high school highlights.

Travis Wilson - Utah
Max Wittek Hawaii
Jason Vander Laan - Ferris St



Hope this helps you, at least gives you a list of names for you to evaluate for yourself.

We have a QB, JFF. When he is gone "Officially", then I will discuss options. Personally I don't see a QB in this draft that hold a candle to wear JFF is right now skill set wise.

I'm not opposed to taking a QB if we ship JFF, but if we don't it would be foolish because we have a ton of other needs. AND IMHO the other needs are a much higher priority at the moment. It won't matter who the QB is if we don't have good WRs, RBs or a LT. Personally I think our RBs are good enough for next year, but the WRs should be very high priority.

I also don't think you pass on Bosa at the top of this draft to experiment with Goff.

I am not sure we are done with Manziel. No doubt Manziel has some issues. Mostly between the ears issues. Possibly he sees the light under Hue. There is no question in my mind that JM and Pettine had thier own issues. Now that one of them is gone, maybe the whole Mojo changes.

The more I read and listen, I don't think I want a QB at #2 either. I don't think that is the best way to build this team. We have to remember, QB play wasn't the big problem with our team last year.

I think lynch has shown a lot of touch to his passes and he leads the receiver with the ball very well. When a QB leaded the WR well then those WR have a great chance to stay healthy and to get nice YAC. It also means he see the field well enough to know where to put the ball ahead of time which I think is very important. He has a big body that can beef up and hopefully take the beating of the AFC north.

I don't like Goff because he throws to WR's back shoulder too much which means at even the college level his reactions are just a little behind. At the pro level that could lead to either a lot of interceptions or a lot of injured WR. I do like his intelligence though and I really like his ability to read defenses. I just worry about his arm being able to throw at NFL velocity since he seldom leads his WRs.

I think both these 2 QBs are people with excellent character and work hard at being a good QB. I'd be happy with either one at #2. Not because they are the best QBs ever but because I want the team to finally be in a marriage with a QB and forced to stay consistent with one. If anyone can do that well since the return of the Browns it will be Hue.

Whether we retain Manziel, select one in the draft, or obtain one via a trade, Hue must pick one and commit to the choice. We absolutely must establish the direction this season. Hue will have a tough choice here...

Thanks! Appreciate the post.

One thing that needs to be considered is the other teams that need a QB

SF
DAL
Houston

And probably a bunch of others that will be in the mood to draft one high.

I don't see any first tier QB's in this draft or the next few drafts either which is why I say we go in with Lynch. He has the most potential to build around and he can sit behind Josh for a season because no one has expectations this upcoming season anyways.

This is what Hue said about the QB position. Does anyone think that this is Manziel? I sure don't. I think that Manziel will be moved at the earliest possible moment.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...direction-at-qb

He also stressed the importance of the position -- on and off the field.

"That's where it starts," he said on ESPN Cleveland. "You got to have the right quarterback under center, leading this team, being the face of the franchise and carrying out the message and the mission of what we're trying to accomplish."

At his news conference, Jackson did list the attributes that he wants in players and a team. Among them were leadership from players, accountability and integrity.


Coach Hue Jackson says Browns need ‘dominant quarterback,’ speaks as if team is done with Johnny Manziel - Browns - Ohio
http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/coach-...anziel-1.655000

In an interview Friday on SiriusXM NFL Radio, co-host Solomon Wilcots told Jackson, “Johnny Manziel is there. Maybe you keep him. Maybe you don’t. Maybe you move on. What kind of quarterback are you looking to pair yourself with?”
To which Jackson replied, “Outside of all of the physical characteristics that we look for in a quarterback, the thing I’m looking for is a guy that’s going to the face of the franchise, somebody that our players can rally behind, somebody that our fans can rally behind, that they believe that this guy has a chance to go out week in and week out and win games, a guy that can help elevate this football team, not anybody that’s going to tear it down because I think it’s too hard in the National Football League to have a guy like that.
“[The quarterback needs to be] all-consumed with one thing: being the best quarterback he can be and being the best leader he can be. That’s the kind of guy I’m looking for.”

In an article about Hue that I read recently, they talked about his work with Joe Flacco .... who was considered too far behind the curve as far as experience in anything resembling a pro offense, but he started as a rookie and played well. Hue was the one who installed his footwork, helped his mechanics, and developed him as he played.

I understand. I also feel that Manziel is more talented than any of the QBs headed to the NFl...so there is that. Hue may want to get rid of the guy, but his eyes might rule over his heart.

That said, when I say we might not be done with Manziel, I do admit the odds are probably against keeping him.

At any rate, there is no hurry in doing so. I'd at least wait until some time after the draft.

I agree with you. I like Cook and Hackenburg. They are pro style QB's that will be more successful in college than these QB's playing in fgimmick college offenses.

We've already established that you don't know what the spread is and that there are plenty of spread QBs having success in the NFL. Please stop repeating points that are clearly wrong.

We don't know that he hasn't - or that he hasn't scheduled it.

I for one am glad we have heard nothing about the kid (except bozo speculation) for weeks.

/ I don't want another public apology
// I am sure his team doesn't want one either
/// The only thing that changes anything is if he shows up early and works harder than anyone else

The spread is a college gimmick that is used somewhat in the NFL but is not a stable offense in the NFL.

The Browns play big boy football in the AFC North and need big boy QB's.

What offense did Andy Dalton play in college? Flacco? Roethlisberger?

Also, who said we would be running the spread?

Your lack of understanding on this subject is clear.

I don't lack knowledge on the subject. I just don't want a QB that was never taught in college how to read a defense pre snap, never learn how to manipulate a safety for a QB that learns to read the OLB or throws wide receiver screens to the college wide side of the field to get playmakers the ball in space. Those things don't happen in the NFL. I want a QB that will stand tall in the pocket until the bitter end when he has to deliver when he is about to get smacked in the month. Why do you think Tom Brady has been so successful? Why has Peyton Manning? That is what the Browns need at QB. Not another spread QB that has to learn the game all over again because they were not taught the fundamentals in college.

Why? That would be pretty dumb considering that it would mean giving away much needed future picks just to get the top pick. If another jumps us, just get Bosa at 2 and draft the next best guy at 32.

https://vine.co/v/eQ61br0wFgi

we should not trade up from No. 2 to No. 1. Take Bosa and get Lynch or Wentz with the next pick. Use that to trade up if need be. Those guys might be better anyway.
Goff may not be the flavor of the month come draft day anyway. I think Teddy still was at this point two years ago and Bortles came out of nowhere.

j/c

Bottom line...Hue needs to find a smart QB who wants to work...period. Shaw or Davis? I think we fans, me included, keep looking for Brady and Manning. I'm so done with it. Build around these kids and move forward. If you can build a real team around these QBs, next QB will have a hell of team. I mean seriously if Cincy can build a playoff team around Dalton why not Shaw or Davis? I think us fans are looking to much for perfection and forget it takes 11 guys.

Dalton is limited. Shaw and Davis are borderline non-NFL QBs.

jc

Head over to the bengalsboard, they think that because Hue traded for Palmer when he was with the Raiders they are going to get our 1st rounder (#2 overall) for AJ McCarron), and some argue that we need to pay more than that.

Get some actual gamebreaking WR's for AJ!

OK, what if we put real play makers around these kids? I'm thinking outside the box a little here. Think Dalton two years ago. Assemble a pretty good OL. Draft receivers and running backs. Can it work with with Shaw and Davis? OR, gamble drafting Bradford and RG iii. What makes sense? I'm not down grading your opinion. All I'm asking is are we putting to much into getting the perfect QB instead of building around? I understand there is no answer. It's more food for thought!

Dalton is and was much more talented than both Shaw and Davis. He started from the go.

A quarterback ,WR combo, is better than just a Qb with no one to throw to.

If you can secure a top combo in the league, it's a plus.

Nonsense indeed! I could be tempted to trade Manziel for McCarron, and maybe even throw in a (very) late draft choice.

I wouldn't feel bad drafting Goff, Wentz, or Lynch at around the mid first. I'm not keen on an of them with our #2 pick.

I rank all 3 of those guys higher than I did Manziel. Aside from have better size than Manziel, the don't have the baggage that he came into the draft with either.

Of the 3 Lynch has higher upside but is riskiest, Goff has a lower ceiling, but is the safest, and Wentz is somewhere in between the two.

I like Prescott in the 2nd and Cardale in the 3rd. Jones has a huge bust risk, but it's worth a 3rd rounder to try.

There are more guys even farther down and even a few UDFA's that I like.

We will get lucky to get a 5th rounder for Manziel right now an most likely a 7th.

I don't care what we get for him, but he has to be gone because there are too many fans that demand that he starts despite him going AWOL the last week of the season two seasons in a row. Football is low on his list of priorities.

The easiest way to run Hue Jackson out of town is to let JFF bring his drama back next year and let all his groupies scream for him to start every week when he clearly hasn't put the effort in and while the news follows everything he does off the field that isn't studying the playbook.

There are too many guys that care more about Johnnie starting than Johnny does.

I'll save everyone the wondering about "what if". If he magically decided to give up drinking and do all the stuff he needed to do to fix his flaws, he might actually look good for a little while till the injuries caught up with him and then he would RG3 himself out of football.

He hasn't strung more than a few games together where he has stayed healthy. He's too little to be a running QB for long and he struggles trying to pass from the pocket for any amount of time without taking off. Even if he did, he'd eventually get smeared.

If a QB is worth drafting in the middle of the first round, then isn't he also worth drafting at the top of the first round?

Here is the draft philosophy of Bill Walsh. I know it was written by an unpopular person on this board, but it is relevant.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...from-the-master

If we draft a QB #2 and he is our QB for ten years, will anyone care where he was drafted?

yes some will

If we traded down from #2 to #15 we would get the value of #8 overall in return if you go by the trade chart.

Would I like Goff, Wentz, or Lynch instead of Bosa? No (BTW I like A'Shawn Robinson or Deforest Buckner better than Bosa with our pick)

Would I be OK with say one of those guys and top LB or DE instead of Bosa? Yes.

I know it would be a different combination of picks, but the value should be somewhere around that. That's a chance I am willing to take.