DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How Johnny Manziel failed his last great audition

Already have bud, already have.

It seems to me, at THIS point, Josh might be getting it. My assumption is he is getting it due to his year long ban.

John has failed any test, other than missing practices, skipping treatments, not preparing for games, putting alcohol before his job - going all the way back to high school apparently.

Has he broken any rules or laws? No. Has he maybe broken team rules? Looks that way, And the underlying issue is - he continues to drink when apparently the expectations have been explained to him, as well as the consequences.

Gordon is not on the team. He's not allowed in the facilities. And again, I'm assuming he IS being tested. I might be wrong on that.

What if Joe Thomas started missing practices because he was drunk the night before? What if Joe flat out said "hey, this past year I wasn't a good teammate, I didn't prepare well, but I promise I will from here on out."......and we see that Joe is drinking like a fiend - even though it's legal.

I don't believe I've ever said to "cut manziel". I don't think so - but I've also said we can't go forward assuming he'll be the starter. We need a qb, that much is obvious.

That is a fair post and you were not one of the guys I was calling out.

There's also a difference between the QB and a WR. Like it or not, the QB gets held to a much higher standard. If a WR screws up he's one guy. If the QB screws up, he's the single most important guy on the team.

probably for medical purposes, for his concussion you know

You know, all those alcoholics buying Tequila as a gift for someone. . .

So yeah that seals it... we need to trade the QB that hasn't been suspended and keep the WR that has. Not sure I get the thinking here?

But all joking aside I say trade them both for an experienced NFL WR. and be done with it. Besides Manziel is never going to be accepted here in Clev, NEVER. Cut him loose so we can at least see the kid play somewhere else and enjoy watching him as pure football fans.

Not to mention decision making and awareness are the two biggest keys to a QB success. Johnny's off the field antics have pretty much showed us that his decision making and awareness are extinct.

Yeah, he's gotten burned and lit up many times... yet he keeps sticking his hand into the same flame. Just "can't get right" and I'm not going to wait, all while hoping, something permanently clicks in his little fragile head.

Let's get a conditional 7th rounder and then move on from that... nightmare.

Manziel would be a Senior at college this year. Guessing at that age none of us had great decision making skills.

That excuses nothing. Hundreds of other players are able to do what he is failing to do.

As for Gordon vs. Manziel:
1. it's a stupid argument - you evaluate things on an individual basis, not on some ridiculous notion of what is "fair" or equal
2. their "crimes" are different, but the number of chances they've each thrown away is pretty much equal
3. if you MUST make the comparison, it is pretty simple... it comes down to what you do with the 2nd (3rd, 4th, 5th) chances you get. Gordon appears to finally be taking his to heart; Manziel still appears to not care. Anything beyond that is moot.

that most definitely should be in purple

Yeah, but we're also not asked to play QB in the NFL either.

Alcohol use disorder (which includes a level that's sometimes called alcoholism) is a pattern of alcohol use that involves problems controlling your drinking, being preoccupied with alcohol, continuing to use alcohol even when it causes problems, having to drink more to get the same effect, or having withdrawal symptoms when you rapidly decrease or stop drinking.

If your pattern of drinking results in repeated significant distress and problems functioning in your daily life, you likely have alcohol use disorder. It can range from mild to severe. However, even a mild disorder can escalate and lead to serious problems, so early treatment is important.

Lets see did he miss work?
Yes twice.
Did he show up to work drunk?
Yes.
Did he lose his starting spot because he was out drinking and lied about it?
Yes.
Did he go to rehab?
Yes.
Does he continue to drink despite the problems it is causing in his life?




I don't see anything in the definition above that says anything about getting arrested.



I'm pretty sure the above definition is proven. His drinking is causing problems and he keeps drinking anyway.



I'm betting JT shows up to work and they don't have to send security out looking for him.



Face it he's a drunk.

In some less obvious news. OJ did it and the Easter Bunny isn't real.

I was making a joke,as I am or used to be a lover of fine tequila.Don Julio is one of my favorites.
But since you have quoted me and by effect drug me into this conversation,I'll respond.I was in favor of drafting him,and defended most of his antics.
He has reached a level where I can no longer stomach his actions.I coached HS ball and have seen many undisciplined,disrespectful brats,some worse than Manziel.None of those were forced to be a team leader,until maturation set in,and they were ready.Unfortunately for John,by virtue of the position he plays he has to be a leader,something he is incapable of doing at the present time.
I can only form my opinion on reports and over glorified TMZ clips,and because of that,whatever the team decides to do with him,keep him,cut him,or trade him I will be OK with that decision.
So i guess what I'm saying is,I'm not your enemy on Manziel.I've gone from in favor of him to I don't care about him.But I do see the humor in this,it could only happen in Cleveland.
Now when i start posting about the idiotic,ass-backwards setup of the FO,you'll realize I'm only joking.Nowhere else but Cleveland.

Doesn't matter how I acted when I was 23, nobody was lining up to pay me millions of dollars... he is the same age as Carr, Bortles, Bridgewater, Mariota, Garoppolo, Winston... those are the guys we need to compare him to... and the only one close to acting like Manziel is Winston and at least he came in and worked hard and took over his team as a rookie and has been "issue free" since getting out of college... Manziel is losing in that group on almost all counts.

You would be guessing wrong.

And what about the millions of 22 year olds who don't do dumb crap?

This argument always just kills me.

If I am in a position of responsibility in any other job, and I constantly screw around and screw up, I am not excused because of my age. If I embarrass my employer, publicly, especially if it's more than one time, I'm not going to have a job for very long.

He is being paid millions of dollars to be a professional NFL QB. That means that he had to grow up the minute he signed that contract. He has not grown up, despite having 2 full years in the NFL. He turned 23 in December.

Bridgewater has been in the NFL for 2 years. He is 23.
Jameis Winston just turned 22.
Derek Carr is 24.
Mariota turned 22 in October. He had to learn the NFL game, but studied his butt off.
Black Bortles in 23. (and he had every bit as much to learn about the NFL game as Manziel did)

The "youth" argument is a non-starter with me. None of those other guys have followed Manziel's path. There was once a guy named Ryan Leaf, who was as physically talented a QB as you could want. However, he was immature, and unwilling to devote himself completely to being a grown up, and studying his craft constantly. Right now, Manziel is following the Leaf path far more than he is the example of his contemporaries.

At this point, Manziel's greatest value might well be as an example of what not to do as an NFL QB. It's a shame, but at this point I would have to guess that he hangs around for a year or 2, and is out of the league, and then forgotten. He wasn't a top 5 pick, so he won't even have the infamy of a guy like Ryan Leaf. He'll just be another late 1st round bust.

Not so fast there. He missed his 9:00 am report time in Berea which was required. Why did he miss it? He went partying in Vegas. He knew this was wrong and tried to disguise himself so people wouldn't notice. He knew it was wrong because he did the exact same thing a year earlier and got into trouble for it. He knew it was wrong and did it anyway. Look at that definition of alcoholism again.





Yes that picture was from last year, but it was just a replacement for me typing the word "yes" again this year. If it makes you feel better, there is plenty of video footage we can use from this year.

Other than that none of my other explanations were last year. they are all about this year and specifically drinking despite the fact that he knew it was going to cause him problems and doing it anyway.

So just ask yourself does JFF know that his drinking is causing problems for his career and despite that fact is he doing it anyway?

Case closed.

O.J. did it.
There is no Easter Bunny.

I don't want to argue about anything, but has any evidence been brought forward to prove either of those things actually happened?

Just pointing out he'd just be a senior in college.

No skin off my nose. I'm hoping he's traded along with Gordon. They won't ever be accepted by Cleveland fans now, that's for sure.

I would accept him/them.. I also believe Hue J could be the guy who could change him/they.. Would at least be interested to see if he could.

Maybe you should state that you would never accept them, instead of saying Cleveland fans. Some won't..some will.people see things in different ways.

Maybe I should... but I'd be wrong.

Okay since everyone wants to go the Hillary Clinton route I have found someone that cracks this case wide open! Katie Nolan is not widely known for her investigative reporting, but I am guessing she gets an offer from "60 minutes" after this.



Also we have tracked down his girlfriend in Vegas the same weekend via instagram. God social media is the enemy of JFF!

Manziel's GF in Vegas

There many morals to this story.

First it does appear that Colonel Mustard did kill him in the Library with the Candlestick.

Second what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas unless you are Johnny Manziel.

Third puppies grow fast.

Fourth Social Media is great at letting the world know what you are doing and probably should be avoided if you don't want the world to know what you are doing.

That's all for today kids.

Today's show was sponsored by the letter "M" and the number "4".

It doesn't matter if you or I think it was a disguise. What matters is if Johnny was drunk enough to think it was a disguise, err I mean Billy.

looks like I put words in place I shouldn't have,as in your not accepting them. I just failed reading comprehension.

JFF has been proven to be a bad liar.

General Reply...

A couple questions:

1)Let's say Johnny is officially an alcoholic (or an addict of any other kind)... he presumably would need another stint in rehab. Even if he goes, does this team have the luxury of waiting on the most important piece to get sober? From a purely practical stand point, he's still a young player who needs to develop. Spending 2-3 months in rehab hinders that.

2) On top of that, does anyone here really think that Hue is going to have the time to spend on Johnny trying to get him to mature?

I am an alcoholic. I have been clean and sober for 26 years. I was never diagnosed so by a doctor nor judged so by a court. I was never arrested for DUI, public intoxication, or any other crime normally associated with alcoholism. I was never homeless or jobless. None of that changes the fact that I am an alcoholic.

When I was 34 I found myself in a situation where I had to turn to my mother for financial help. She told me she would only help me IF I entered rehab. My family had already been trying to tell me, without my getting the message, that I had a problem. I made the deal to get the money. By the grace of God, rehab took. I learned by examining the patterns of my life, that all of my problems; professional, personal, social, and fiscal, were linked either directly or indirectly to the fact that I spent 40 to 50% of my waking life either drunk or high. And if I wasn't drunk or high, I was planning the next time I could do so.

I believe that Johnny Manziel has displayed enough pattern in his lifestyle and behaviors that a person familiar with alcoholism would reasonably deduce that he has a problem with alcohol and/or drugs.

Ask Chad..

“I can speak from a personal perspective and a player’s perspective as well. You get more than just a coach. Hue Jackson is a gem. He was a gem for me and I am speaking a gem, g-e-m,” Johnson said Wednesday on Cleveland Browns Daily. “He was a gem for me in really allowing me to see the game of football differently when he was in Cincinnati. Allowing me to flourish as a receiver. link


This is why I would love to see what he can do with JM..

Most 22 year olds do dumb crap, it just doesn't end up in the news....

By declaring for the NFL draft, he was basically opening up a job interview, which is stating, "I think I'm ready to do the job"... he got the job, he clearly wasn't ready... it's debatable whether he is ready now.

When somebody joins the military at 18, his DI doesn't expect the same from him, or compare him to, the 18 year old rushing Sigma Chi fraternity.. he expects him to do the job the military requires. The he/she signed up and said they were ready to do.

If we interview and hire a 22 year old engineer, they are compared to what I expect of a 22 year old engineer.. not a 22 year old rapper or a 22 year old mother of 3 or a 22 year old Kennedy..

So comparing Manziel to anybody OTHER THAN other 22/23/24 year old NFL QBs is totally irrelevant.. that's the job he said he wanted, that's the job he got, those are the expectations he needs to live up to.

One metric for maturity is learning from mistakes. Bigger the mistake, then bigger the lesson. I don't see much growth, and not sure much more help is indicated or advisable.

Seems driven by "beating", ignoring, snubbing authority. Just seems to need to challenge and dodge the systems rules and consequences.

Only consistent result I see is not in changes of behavior; they seem to boil down to "don't get caught." The pattern suggests that he has talked away problems in the past, and if it worked once, try it again. Don't get caught; lead the teflon life of glamor. Nobody puts JFF in a corner.

Wasted chances. Made a decision. I am old and simple, but it just strikes me, that old, old saw: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" And it doesn't cover who eats the shame for number three, number four, or whatever we are up to in JohnnyLand's Sideshow and Circus. Just send him home. Pull for his salvage operation, but not at the expense of this club.

I am ready for some football meself.

Good job, W84NxtYrAgain!