DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Horton's Defense

The Coaching staff Thread was 13 pages, figured it would be locked soon.

Rays coming back, Which players we have now help him ?

Does he move Mingo back to what he did at LSU ?

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Mingo, with all his flaws, had 5 sacks as a rookie.


Let this kid do what he was drafted to do.

He also didn't get a sack after the second half of the season. Horton told him then that Mingo needed to add more strength, which he has yet to do (After 3 years).

These guys were on the team when Ray was DC here in 2013. Haden made the Pro Bowl that year. Des Bryant and Kruger both signed with the Browns that year. The Browns also drafted Mingo and Armonty Bryant that year.

John Hughes
Armonty Bryant
Tank Carder
Paul Kruger
Barkevious Mingo
Craig Robertson
Johnson Bademosi
Tashaun Gipson
Joe Haden
Jordan Poyer
Desmond Bryant

I like Mingo.. Hope they keep him.

Horton also publicly criticized Mingo, at the end of the season, for not knowing the playbook.

Who didn't he criticize when the defense failed down the stretch?

The guy was a big blowhard.

Most coaches are blowhards. Most coaches also keep their mouths shut.

Horton certainly didn't keep his mouth shut. He talked too much.

I agree.

Is anyone else expecting Gilbert to finally get some run ?

His playing background and early coaching career would suggest he can get more out of our defensive backfield.

Yeah, we need another thread entitled: Gilber's Breakout Season.

Gilbert is the less publicized version of Manziel. He has almost zero chance of success at this point. He just wasted the first two years of his NFL career.

But Ifo tho...

It would be great to see him contribute after that injury. The odds are not in his favor.

Pacman was an idiot and then an all pro (still an idiot)

Gilbert is the same as JFF - ok - if we would have stuck them in and played them the last two years - how much better off would we be - at least we would know for sure.

There are a lot of things I'm really curious about regarding the new coach and staff. Probably the biggest one is how our village idiots respond to the change. I don't think anything will surprise me at this point.

Last season, reading that O'Neil simplified the defense to help them out. It made me think the players were dumb asses.

Then hearing and reading that the DC was playing guys out of position, made me think the D coaching staff were dumb asses.

I also read that Horton throws the play book at them and just expects them to learn it.

Going to be interesting to see how the players respond.

At least a lot of them are used to it!

And we think it sucks to be a fan....

We need a DE to bookend with Bryant. He is our only defensive end at the moment.
We need four starting linebackers unless a miracle occurs.
We need a strong safety.
We need a corner that can start opposite Haden, and if Haden can't stay healthy we need two....
We need a couple more linebackers as depth.
We need time to acquire all of this.

This D doesn't work without linebackers and our cupboard is bare. Mingo is a bust. If Horton can get anything at all out of the guy then he's a miracle worker. Aside from that we got a lot of old, slow, and untalented.
Dansby was a very good player but he's getting very long in the tooth. Who know's if Horton can get anything out of Orchard? We have a lot of holes and no real answers for them. We MUST improve the talent in our linebacker

We have a lot of D-linemen but who fits where? No idea. Bryant is our only defensive end. So finding a TRUE defensive end is vital. Shelton needs to lose about 50 pounds and get coached up a LOT before I can see him as a starter at the Nose. In this D your nose is very important.

Don't discount Kirksey...

I agree. It will be interesting to see how many of these guys respond and how many fall by the wayside. Dansby knows this D. Horton brought him in. But he's getting up there. Might be his last hurrah. We have a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball. Fact is we have more holes than we have positions that are set.

He hasn't shown much so far. No one did this season. I hope Horton tells every last one of them that if they make the roster they will have EARNED it. We should be looking for upgrades at every position but in particular linebacker. This D runs on linebackers. When the Steelers D was great, they had great linebacker play. When they took a step back, it was always at linebacker.

It was just an ACL tear and a dislocated knee. He'll have had 18 months to recover before OTAs? He's pretty far away from contact as well. This long term recovery plan could really help his odds.

Dilbert is yet another problem child. While anything is possible I've pretty much written off Dilbert.

Now Haden on the other hand..... Haden had a really good year under Horton IIRC. If he can keep from getting his dome dinged again he might rebound nicely this year. Once you start getting concussions though....

This makes me wonder if Horton told Hue, I'll come on board if we draft "D" high in the draft.. Go fix your Johnny boy or find a Free Agent to run your "O".

If he did and Hue still hired him we are in deep trouble. You don't take a job with a first year coach and make demands like that. Besides, Hue isn't running the draft. Sashi Brown is. He may have a voice but who knows how much? I think if Hue Jackson sees a QB at 2 or 32 that he can see running his offense we will take QB at one or both of those picks.
I have to think after his assessment of our smurfs we will be looking at WR's.

The reality is we are a LONG way from being good. We have a LOT of holes on both sides of the ball. Mack will be gone so we will need to sign or draft a center. If we do find a young QB he's going to need a good center.

It's along way to the top if you wanna rock and roll....

I'm with you SpiritBro!

Horton's D was disappointing when he was here before...don't expect it to be any better this time around...especially with the lack of impact players on that side of the ball, not to mention dumb (Mingo) and dumberer (Gilbert)!

I think Hue made a mistake here...time will tell...

I want to Rock-N-Roll !

Good points, thanks for the inputs..

LOL!!!! Now that was funny!!!

You're talking about acne, right?

Last time Horton was here his assistants were Joe Cullen (defensive line), Brian Baker (outside linebackers), Ken Flajole (inside linebackers), Louie Cioffi (defensive backs), Bobby Babich (assistant defensive backs), and Daron Roberts (defensive quality control).

Joe Cullen was just hired by the Ravens.

Brian Baker was just fired by Washington.

Ken Flajole stayed with us, but was just hired by the Eagles.

Louie Cioffi was with Horton in Tennessee.

Bobby Babich was with us last year.

Daron Roberts is with the Texans as a scout.

Also, here are Horton's assistants from his time in Tennessee. Giff Smith (defensive line), Nick Eason (assistant defensive line), Lou Spanos (linebackers), Louie Cioffi (defensive Backs), Steve Brown (assistant secondary), and Cannon Matthews (defensive quality control).

I would expect to see a few of these guys with us very soon.

(Nick Eason played for us from 2004 to 2006.)

Edit:

Giff Smith was already hired by San Diego. Steve Brown and Nick Eason were fired by Tennessee.

j/c

all i remember was being excited to have Horton when he was first hired last time ... big talker, promises of aggressiveness and toughness, etc.

and then I saw the product on the field and thought he was all talk and no substance

He may have, but he won't have much of a voice in things, but who knows? We may do that anyway. It doesn't take analytics for me to conclude there are probably 5-6 defensive players who will be sitting at the top of the board.

I don't think Horton said that... he was Hue's #1 choice, but priority here is winning however we can do it. The Offense needs pieces too.

However, we do need some monsters at LB. Few players I like:

Kirksey - My favorite young LB. Plays well. Just want him to play with an attitude. The little altercation where he tried to stop the Steelers (i think) from celebrating in our stands. Seemed timid trying to stop the guy. He wanted respect, but was scared to cause a ruckus.

Kruger - Solid player. Does what you ask. Will occasionally make a nice play. Holds the edge for the most part against the outside run.

Orchard - Showed some flashes, but also had a few hiccups where he made some bad decisions and it cost us. More of a run stopper IMO, than a pass coverage LB. Don't see him playing 3 downs.

Mingo - I like Mingo. No, he's not huge. But he can get to the QB. He is a liability against the run.

Dansby - Sesasoned Vet. Great zone LB, and reads QB's eyes very well.

Bryant (Armonty) - Has shown flashes. His off the field troubles could cost him his career tho.

What Spiritbro said. All of it.

j/c:

I think Desmond Bryant had his best season under Ray Horton.

Pettine was the first person who came to mind when I read this...