DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coaching Staff Part Daux

Man, I went to bed early last night, so I missed all the reports of the hirings except for Horton and Saunders.

I fully expected to come here today and find a host of positives about the new hires, I also expected the usual negative nancy's.

But Geez, I read the last couple of pages of the Coaching staff thread and was amazed the lengths some will go to to be negative. My goodness.

Not a HUGH fan of Haslams, but damn, he's trying. I'll give the devil his due there.

How many games did Jackson win as a HC? Was that really a question? He won 8 in one year, a tough year when his team was lacking some talent and in turmoil for many reasons not the least of which Al Davis dying. Pettine won 2 more games than Jackson, but it took Pettine 2 full seasons to accomplish that feat.

That makes Jackson 8-8 and Pettine 10-22. Nuff Said!

Horton: Look, I'm not overjoyed with this hire, but then again, my job doesn't hang in the balance and if Hue wanted him, so be it. After all, his job probably does.

Saunders: This one I'm excited by. He's a big reason why the Raiders were respectable at times in Hue Jacksons only other year as a HC.

Hamilton: Can't say I'm excited or not. Don't know much about him.

Hal Hunter: Pretty happy with this hire. Didn't his father coach here? Doesn't matter. Just wondering

Wilson: Don't know much about him other than he's coached some very good RB's in the past.

I am, by nature an optimistic person. I try to find the positives in things. Man, have I ever been beat up with the Browns. Geesh. Almost makes me wanna slit my wrists..

But in the end, I want the Browns to win and I recognize that other teams that worked hard to find the winning formula often failed along the journey.

I'll watch and wait to see what happens next.

Source: Cleveland Browns add defensive coordinator Ray Horton and four more to coaching staff


By Jeff Schudel, The News-Herald & The Morning Journal
POSTED: 01/20/16, 7:58 PM EST | UPDATED: 2 HRS AGO
link

Browns coach Hue Jackson’s staff is being filled with assistants who know their way around an NFL sideline.

Ray Horton has been hired as defensive coordinator in a second stint with the Browns, according to a league source.

Al Saunders has been hired as senior offensive assistant and Hal Hunter is the new offensive line coach. Pep Hamilton and Kirby Wilson have also been added to the offensive coaching staff, the source said.

The only decision by Jackson announced by the Browns so far was to retain Chris Tabor as special teams coordinator. The more recent hirings could be announced on Jan. 21.

Horton, 55, an NFL defensive back from 1983 to 1992, began his coaching career two years later as an assistant defensive backs coach with the Washington Redskins. He has coached defense his entire career and in 2011 was named the Arizona Cardinals defensive coordinator after seven years as the Pittsburgh Steelers’ secondary coach.

Horton was hired as the Browns’ defensive coordinator under Rob Chudzinski in 2013 and had the same title with the Tennessee Titans the last two years. His defenses gave up more than 400 points in each of the last three seasons. But while with the Cardinals, his teams gave up 348 points in 2011 and 357 in 2012.

Saunders is 68 and has coached offense in the NFL for more than 30 years. He was head coach of the San Diego Chargers from 1986 to 1988 and in 2011 was Jackson’s offensive coordinator with the Oakland Raiders. Jackson called his own plays with the Raiders and plans to do the same with the Browns.

Hamilton, 41, has been coaching in the NFL since 2004. He was fired on Nov. 3 as offensive coordinator of the Indianapolis Colts. Some reports have him bearing the title of quarterbacks coach with the Browns and others as assistant head coach/offense or passing offense coordinator.

Whatever the job description, Hamilton in 2014 with the Colts ran an offense that finished sixth in the league in scoring, averaging 28.6 points a game (the 2015 Browns were 30th, averaging 17.4 a game) and third in offense at 406.6 yards a game.

Unfortunately for the Browns, Hamilton had to leave quarterback Andrew Luck behind in Indianapolis.

Wilson, 53, will coach the Browns running backs and might get the more formal title of running game coordinator. He has been coaching NFL running backs since 2002. He was most recently with the Minnesota Vikings in 2014 and 2015 and prior to that coached the Steelers running backs from 2007 to 2013.

Hunter, 56, held various college coaching jobs from 1977 to 2005. He was named the Chargers’ offensive line coach in 2006 and held that job until being promoted to offensive coordinator in 2012. He held that job for two years and spent the last three as the Colts’ assistant offensive line coach.

Honestly Im pleased with our hires this time. First time I am truly optimistic in a while.

With Pep Hamilton in Cleveland, the wheels are turning in an effort to get Andrew Luck....


....well, one can dream, right?

Hamilton and Hunter? Really? They about got Luck and Hasselback killed. Great moves.

My feelings on all of this...*blows kazoo*..*shrugs*...?

Firing Farmer - About time. Good riddance.

Firing Pettine - Not a huge fan but I understand it as long as we got a
real upgrade.

Promoting "The Sushi" - *shocked*...we can't be serious.

Hiring DePodesta - REALLY like this move. Dude knows his crap and is good at his job. Only question is can he transition his knowledge to NFL. Time will tell.

Hiring Hue - Meh. Not thrilled and not devastated. Liked his presser but pressers don't win ballgames. Wait and see I guess. Don't see it as a huge upgrade over Pettine though, it's just "somebody different" for the sake of being "somebody different".

Hiring a GM - WHAT GM? We don't need no stinkin GM. *shakes head* Disgraceful.

Having no OC - Very disappointed. Hue will be spread way too thin.

Everyone else (Horton/Pep/Saunders/Kirby) - VERY meh. Not a single name that I'm excited about. Now we're down to rehiring Ex BROWNS cast-offs. Pretty cool. At least he'll earn his paychecks from Berea this year I guess.

In the end, at least we have "hope" now right? I mean at least until about September. Let's go get those season tix! SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL!

We still suck. Thanks Jimmy.

I just threw up a little.

Me too, but my optimism is always there off season. It's not until they actually start playing when... well, we all know the story.

IMO these coaches are all fine. What we need is talent like EO said. Get the talent and we will be fine.

Welcome back Ray. If we were to stick 3-4,thats the guy I wanted as DC.

The Colts line sucked this year, Luck got battered behind his line..

Hmmmmm........perhaps the same could be said for the coaches the Browns just fired and the "talent" that they did--or did not--have......

For those of you wondering Hal Hunter has used both gap blocking and zone blocking.

How many snaps did Hal play? Oh, wait, thats right, he is a coach and he coaches the players he's given to coach.

I don't know many guys that can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

yeah, we cant have that

Maybe/maybe not. I'm just not feelin' the love...yet.

Yes of course it could. The difference here I think (keep in mind, I'm by no means an insider so my thoughts are just that, unsubstantiated) I believe the big issue with getting rid of Pettine/Farmer and most all the other coaches, had more to do with discontent and discord. Anyone that has ever run any size organization knows that you just can't have infighting and expect to reach your full potential.

I think it was pretty clear that there was a lot of that going on.

So getting rid of these guys, setting up a systematic method to replacing them and putting that method in play is about all Haslam or any owner can really do.

If this fails, he'll need to try again. and again. and again. Until he gets it right.

I hate to keep bringing it up, but the Steelers were nothing prior to finally getting Chuck Noll. They figured out a winning formula and have adapted it over the years but essentially, remained the same, and they've florished. Down years have been had for sure, but for the most part, they've been very consistent.

What have the Rams done since their last good season? Nothing. They found a formula, didn't sustain it, changed owners and now are jilting St. Louis and moving back to LA.

Look at the Seahawks.. Virtually nothing until they got Holmgren and even that wasn't the end all be all. Until now, they've really been mostly average.

But somehow, Haslam is expected to get it right in 3 years? That just amazes me that anyone really believes that it's just that easy.

Whats their talent level compared to ours?

idk. you think this staff will let FO typs sit in coaching film review night badgering them about who played and play calling?

think they will tolerate players being late for training and meetings? heck i know of one punk player that didn't even show up at all for weight training. what did pettine do about it? named him the starting QB. pffft

I agree. We have heard that song before.

You don't like Horton and Saunders? Just curious

Yet, Pet was supposed to get it right in two years despite having a roster that was inadequate?

Because he was partly responsible for building it.

Since we are discussing Hal, I will assume your talking OL.

I can say we have 2 better linemen for sure. I also don't want this to be another Coaching vs talent discussion.

Haven't we discussed and argued that point enough. No one wins or loses that discussion, due to it's mostly one's belief.

The point is, did Hal get everything out of his players ? Again, there's no way to honestly measure that. Again it will be one's view if a coach got the best out of his players.

Did the Browns line play the same under DeLeone or Moeller ? It was discussed that the line slipped back a bit under DeLeone due to what was seen on the field.

Really it is as simple as this, I pointed out the Colts, 3 of their QB's were injured.. It really was apparent the line was not very good protecting their QB.

Here we go again..Was it the coaching the blocking scheme used ? or lack of talent, not the right guys for the scheme used.. I don't know or feel like hashing it all out again.

I guess, I would have liked to have seen a coach come from a better line.. Did I say I don't or won't support him ? No, I'm just asking if this was really a good hire or not. I do really hope it is.

Well, like I said, I have a theory about that, but apparently you don't want to hear it again so I'll just let you go on without taking that as a possible.

Pets problem was he was so bull-headed that when the wheels started to fall off, he just stepped back and watched the D get destroyed and did not lift a finger to help until there was only 4 games to go.

And he wanted Justin Gilber(t)

It's probably best to assume they all suck.

I am not saying we make that a theme on every post as some do, but just keeping that in the back of the mind helps cushion the low points.

Seriously, my big hope is we start bringing in good players. Coaches are coaches. They suck if their players suck. The look good if their players are good.

It's much easier to coach if your team has a lot of talent. I never believed Mike Ditka was a good coach. I also believe Bill Cowher was overrated. He benefited from the talent level the Steelers had. If a team is loaded with talent they still need to be coached, game planned etc. but having that high level of talent makes things a lot easier. JMO.

Then why are coaches fired and the same players retained ?

Ah... so HORTON DID HEAR A HUE!

I'm ok with this hire. It seems that he'll likely simplify the scheme and let the DEF attack. That is what this roster needs and will be good at. Looking at the last few games this past season, the DEF got much better when it simplified... last season, also under a simpler scheme, it did have issues against the run, but it would have been good enough DEF to have put us in the playoff talks at the end of the season had the OFF not imploded.

Oh, and for Olskool... it appears that Jackson has put together a coaching staff that reflects a HUE OF MANY COLORS

Ray Horton is definitely an upgrade over what we had. Maybe now we will make in game adjustments and scheme better. Now if we could just get some better players.

Hate the Horton hire. The guy does a lot of talking about how great he is and how much everyone else sucks. Cant stand him.

Now Saunders hire is huge. He is a brilliant mind. One of the best in football. He wanted to come here last year but backed off to help Flip get the job. Hue and Al are a great combo.

Hal Hunter was considered the best OL coach in football for several years. The job he did with the Chargers to open lanes for LT and with the constant overturn due to injury was epic.

Hopefully we can score a lot of points and force turnovers cause Horton's D cant get anyone off the field.

I thought Hudson Houck was more responsible for the success of the San Diego's OL back in the day?????

I'm also hoping this Kirby Wilson fella can get Crow playing to where he should be capable of playing, and I also hope he is able to get Duke to take a step up in his game too. I really really like Duke... he has a certain smoothness to how he plays.

He was running the Dolphin's line when LT held the rushing title.

I thought that Houck was the OL coach for LT's first 3 years or so and that SD continued to use his blocking schemes?

To some extent... But that kinda unfairly discredits Hunter, who actually coached that line, as a coach. It's kinda around the same lines of saying, "Paul Brown was more responsible for the 49er's dynasty of the 80's than Bill Walsh. PB, after all, has been running a version of the WCO since he coached here."