#Browns exec VP of football operations Sashi Brown said team will hire a VP of player personnel, not a GM after all. They've had interviews.
jc..
As of now, I'm not sure who is going to be in control of the 53. It does not sound like the new hire will have that authority and I'm not sure Sashi and/or Podesta are qualified.
Hue might have more say in the 53 than advertised. Hiring the guy to fill the GM position that is not really a GM is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be.
I'm hoping that Hue was very clear during his interview and has a very clear understanding of how the draft picks will go, who will have what input into the roster, etc. Otherwise, he is likely to become upset very quickly.
#Browns exec VP of football operations Sashi Brown said team will hire a VP of player personnel, not a GM after all. They've had interviews.
jc..
As of now, I'm not sure who is going to be in control of the 53. It does not sound like the new hire will have that authority and I'm not sure Sashi and/or Podesta are qualified.
Hue might have more say in the 53 than advertised. Hiring the guy to fill the GM position that is not really a GM is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be.
I'm hoping that Hue was very clear during his interview and has a very clear understanding of how the draft picks will go, who will have what input into the roster, etc. Otherwise, he is likely to become upset very quickly.
Can't see him taking the job unless this was very clear to him. Bet he has a lot of say in the 53
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#Browns exec VP of football operations Sashi Brown said team will hire a VP of player personnel, not a GM after all. They've had interviews.
jc..
As of now, I'm not sure who is going to be in control of the 53. It does not sound like the new hire will have that authority and I'm not sure Sashi and/or Podesta are qualified.
Hue might have more say in the 53 than advertised. Hiring the guy to fill the GM position that is not really a GM is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be.
yeah me too. maybe they have , after talking to some folks, decided to tweak the position some... it seems a VP of personnel will hold more power than a GM... or maybe its just semantics.... I guess the proof is in the hire.
#Browns exec VP of football operations Sashi Brown said team will hire a VP of player personnel, not a GM after all. They've had interviews.
jc..
As of now, I'm not sure who is going to be in control of the 53. It does not sound like the new hire will have that authority and I'm not sure Sashi and/or Podesta are qualified.
Hue might have more say in the 53 than advertised. Hiring the guy to fill the GM position that is not really a GM is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be.
yeah me too. maybe they have , after talking to some folks, decided to tweak the position some... it seems a VP of personnel will hold more power than a GM... or maybe its just semantics.... I guess the proof is in the hire.
True, it doesn't matter what the title is.. all that matters is who has final authority. With all of the discussion and input in the room, who has the authority to write the name on the piece of paper on draft day? Who has the authority to pull the trigger on a trade? Who has authority to send people home during camp?
I think it has already been confirmed that Sashi has that control but will defer to talent evaluators and coaches unless he is the tiebreaker.
In the story I'm making up Sashi is never the tiebreaker. When it gets to that point it would be his job then to get the others working together to avoid the need for a tiebreaker.
The reason he has control over the 53 is to give his voice some authority, rather than just another cook in the kitchen. With him having the final say on the 53 that means the others will be obligated to hear him out. At that point it's his job to get them lined-up and thinking together so they can make a good decision. Not necessarily deferring the decision to him.
Of course, that's what's happening in the story I'm making up.
Sure sounded to me like Sashi is the GM and will call the shots on the draft and the final 53. He almost seemed giddy when talking about having the opportunity... listen again if you don't believe it but that's the way it sounded to me.
I think it has already been confirmed that Sashi has that control but will defer to talent evaluators and coaches unless he is the tiebreaker.
In the story I'm making up Sashi is never the tiebreaker. When it gets to that point it would be his job then to get the others working together to avoid the need for a tiebreaker.
The reason he has control over the 53 is to give his voice some authority, rather than just another cook in the kitchen. With him having the final say on the 53 that means the others will be obligated to hear him out. At that point it's his job to get them lined-up and thinking together so they can make a good decision. Not necessarily deferring the decision to him.
Of course, that's what's happening in the story I'm making up.
So in your story he's basically a mediator who works toward consensus among the people who actually know what they are talking about?
So in your story he's basically a mediator who works toward consensus among the people who actually know what they are talking about?
Yes, as well as being responsible for the business side of the football stuff that would normally fall under the duties of the GM. That will allow the VP of Player Personnel to focus on player evaluation only instead of spreading himself thin with that other stuff.
I liked what I heard in the presser today. Obviously two smart and intelligent people with some demonstrations of humor/joking sides. But I'm still skeptical of the structure.
Sorry to piggy back off Vers but yes, too many cooks in the kitchen seems concerning.
Off that, I thought it was funny Sashi "... and obviously Johnny is on the roster"
#Browns exec VP of football operations Sashi Brown said team will hire a VP of player personnel, not a GM after all. They've had interviews.
jc..
As of now, I'm not sure who is going to be in control of the 53. It does not sound like the new hire will have that authority and I'm not sure Sashi and/or Podesta are qualified.
Hue might have more say in the 53 than advertised. Hiring the guy to fill the GM position that is not really a GM is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be.
I'm hoping that Hue was very clear during his interview and has a very clear understanding of how the draft picks will go, who will have what input into the roster, etc. Otherwise, he is likely to become upset very quickly.
I think you guys worry too much.
You can't think in terms of a strong armed "GM" and make it work in you head. I get that.
Think of Brown as a mediator who if sides are divided, he makes the call. The ideal is Brown isn't making any calls, and don't think he will have to make many.
Whoever we hire as VP of player personnel, and Coach are going to be the eyes. Depo is going to run his metrics on how guys play in the cold, on 3rd down, and whatever else to verify what the "eyes" see, or dispell them based on the facts of play.
If all things are equal, I think the call goes with the coach and who he wants and needs. What this system might prevent is Marty Schottenheimer wanting and needing a Junkin or Charlton.
You guys are acting like you long to go back to Ray Farmer picking players based on whatever it was he based things on. Really?
I embrace not having 1 guy making picks on a hunch or his eyes alone. I like having a team hashing it out, looking in depth at the numbers, using the eyes, but in the end, you have to have a tie-breaker, and Sashi is the guy. He is the mediator.
I like it.
Like it or not, we have a couple of smart people in Brown and Depo, and a good, smart football mind in Jackson. I trust the 3 of them will find another to find the quartet. Kind of like seeking Ringo.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I'm studying the set-up as best I can with as little information there is to get. It makes sense to me.
It's a little like the set-up Banner had here. Banner was both the team President and the GM with Lombardi being the Player Personnel guy. This time Alec Scheiner is in the team President part of Banner's role and Sashi is in the GM part of the role Banner had.
The difference is that instead of Banner and Lombardi making picks it's now the VP of Player Personnel, (Lombardi's old role), and the HC. The team President guy is out of the mix on the football side.
That basically gives Sashi half the responsibilities Banner had, (fitting since Banner could handle all that where Sashi can't), and although having final say on the 53 he's really an acting GM, (lacking any real player evaluation experience), who is guiding the organizational plan, with DePodesta's help and doing all the business stuff of the football side while moderating the HC and VP of PP.
I embrace that we won't have a GM trying to text the sidelines anymore :-)
It's obvious jimmy has a bad taste in his mouth from his last GM and wanted to insulate the team from that happening again
I was looking forward to continuity as much as vers - but in hindsight we upgraded our coach (at least on paper) and we removed the potential of a GM disrupting our coach again.
My take on the structure is more in line with yours. Frankly I'm having a hard time understanding this fear about "too many cooks". Beyond the initial statement by Haslam saying that Sashi has final authority on the 53... there hasn't been anything to suggest Sashi is going to be doing what HE wants regardless of what the coaches want.
I said it on another thread: so far it looks like Hue has had the authority in the coaching selections. if Sashi/DePo aren't meddling or micro-managing now, what makes people think they will when it comes to the roster?
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
I'm studying the set-up as best I can with as little information there is to get. It makes sense to me.
It's a little like the set-up Banner had here. Banner was both the team President and the GM with Lombardi being the Player Personnel guy. This time Alec Scheiner is in the team President part of Banner's role and Sashi is in the GM part of the role Banner had.
The difference is that instead of Banner and Lombardi making picks it's now the VP of Player Personnel, (Lombardi's old role), and the HC. The team President guy is out of the mix on the football side.
That basically gives Sashi half the responsibilities Banner had, (fitting since Banner could handle all that where Sashi can't), and although having final say on the 53 he's really an acting GM, (lacking any real player evaluation experience), who is guiding the organizational plan, with DePodesta's help and doing all the business stuff of the football side while moderating the HC and VP of PP.
That's where I'm at so far.
This new hierarchy is very different to that of Banner's time in Cleveland. Banner was CEO of the organization, not President (which was odd from the word 'go' to not have the Owner be CEO). Alec was already hired President and Lombardi was VP of Player Personnel until Farmer was hired months later than, for whatever reason, he was promoted to GM.
Banner controlled EVERYTHING- both business and football. This organizational approach is not aligned like that anymore. All staff reported to Banner. Banner report to Haslem.
This time around there are like 4-5 guys who directly report to Haslem, each having their own control, whether is the business side, organizational analytics, coaching, personnel, etc.
Last season it was three (Pettine, Farmer, Scheiner)- business coaching, personnel.
IMO, it has changed with each regime, the last not as dramatic as the first change. I have no clue how this is going to work out.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
This new hierarchy is very different to that of Banner's time in Cleveland. Banner was CEO of the organization, not President (which was odd from the word 'go' to not have the Owner be CEO). Alec was already hired President and Lombardi was VP of Player Personnel until Farmer was hired months later than, for whatever reason, he was promoted to GM.
Banner controlled EVERYTHING- both business and football. This organizational approach is not aligned like that anymore. All staff reported to Banner. Banner report to Haslem.
This time around there are like 4-5 guys who directly report to Haslem, each having their own control, whether is the business side, organizational analytics, coaching, personnel, etc.
Last season it was three (Pettine, Farmer, Scheiner)- business coaching, personnel.
IMO, it has changed with each regime, the last not as dramatic as the first change. I have no clue how this is going to work out.
so the only difference is that 2 more people report to haslam, haslam is the guy that replaced banner..... why doesn't that make me feel better?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
This new hierarchy is very different to that of Banner's time in Cleveland. Banner was CEO of the organization, not President (which was odd from the word 'go' to not have the Owner be CEO). Alec was already hired President and Lombardi was VP of Player Personnel until Farmer was hired months later than, for whatever reason, he was promoted to GM.
Banner controlled EVERYTHING- both business and football. This organizational approach is not aligned like that anymore. All staff reported to Banner. Banner report to Haslem.
This time around there are like 4-5 guys who directly report to Haslem, each having their own control, whether is the business side, organizational analytics, coaching, personnel, etc.
Last season it was three (Pettine, Farmer, Scheiner)- business coaching, personnel.
IMO, it has changed with each regime, the last not as dramatic as the first change. I have no clue how this is going to work out.
so the only difference is that 2 more people report to haslam, haslam is the guy that replaced banner..... why doesn't that make me feel better?
No the difference is one person made all the decisions about everything Cleveland Browns. That was the case with Banner and not the case now.
Also, Banner was the only person reporting to Haslem, now there are four or five while eliminating a layer of hierarchy (which you pointed out). I think that is a dramatic shift in structure since 2013.
This also mean that with so many people needing to report to Haslem, he has to have more of a role in 2016 than he did in 2013 (which was sorta your big concern). I feel like he even said that as well.
Another layer of this structure is Dee Haslem, who has emerged and tends to look like the Robert Duval to Al Pacino/Marlon Brando at this point.
Again, a very different feel, at least for me now than in 2013. Not better/worse, just different.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/22/1609:41 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
No the difference is one person made all the decisions about everything Cleveland Browns. That was the case with Banner and not the case now.
and now that person is haslam. if haslam only wanted reports he would have hired one guy to shift through. make no mistake. haslam is the one calling the shots. he is listening to these 6 or 7 people and making the decisions.
JMO and a little common sense...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Too many cooks in the kitchen sounds good, but it is not necessarily true. What matters is whether they are all working together in alignment or they are working at counter-purposes like our previous cluster.... I'm encouraged by Sashi's reputation as a mediator and consensus bringer, but only time will tell.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
No the difference is one person made all the decisions about everything Cleveland Browns. That was the case with Banner and not the case now.
and now that person is haslam. if haslam only wanted reports he would have hired one guy to shift through. make no mistake. haslam is the one calling the shots. he is listening to these 6 or 7 people and making the decisions.
JMO and a little common sense...
I think you're off base here and calling it common sense when it isn't.
Haslem did not take the place of Banner. What makes you think that is because everybody reports to Haslem. Haslem is the owner. He does need to know what's going on, but he's not going to be a Jerry Jones evaluating and making draft picks as Banner did. He's also not going to be doing contract negotiations as Banner did. Banner did everything. Haslem couldn't take Banner's place anymore than he could replace the chef at the White House.
There are now specific people having specific roles and hopefully there are specific rules to keep everyone in their own lane while cooperating as a team.
Of course the reports go to Haslem, not for his decision making on football matters but to keep him abreast of what's going on and why. If I were the owner I'd want to know even though I can't coach, evaluate players, negotiate contracts, etc. If he does't want to be caught with his pants down when he fires everyone in two years he needs to know the workings of the football side. He doesn't need to be able to do any of it, but he needs to have at least a cursory understanding. Thereby, everyone reports to him.
If it's as you say and Haslem is now doing the same job Banner did then we all may as well become lacrosse fans because they'll be no more football in Cleveland starting today.
No the difference is one person made all the decisions about everything Cleveland Browns. That was the case with Banner and not the case now.
and now that person is haslam. if haslam only wanted reports he would have hired one guy to shift through. make no mistake. haslam is the one calling the shots. he is listening to these 6 or 7 people and making the decisions.
JMO and a little common sense...
I think you're off base here and calling it common sense when it isn't.
Haslem did not take the place of Banner. What makes you think that is because everybody reports to Haslem. Haslem is the owner. He does need to know what's going on, but he's not going to be a Jerry Jones evaluating and making draft picks as Banner did. He's also not going to be doing contract negotiations as Banner did. Banner did everything. Haslem couldn't take Banner's place anymore than he could replace the chef at the White House.
There are now specific people having specific roles and hopefully there are specific rules to keep everyone in their own lane while cooperating as a team.
Of course the reports go to Haslem, not for his decision making on football matters but to keep him abreast of what's going on and why. If I were the owner I'd want to know even though I can't coach, evaluate players, negotiate contracts, etc. If he does't want to be caught with his pants down when he fires everyone in two years he needs to know the workings of the football side. He doesn't need to be able to do any of it, but he needs to have at least a cursory understanding. Thereby, everyone reports to him.
If it's as you say and Haslem is now doing the same job Banner did then we all may as well become lacrosse fans because they'll be no more football in Cleveland starting today.
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
Which I take as meaning that Hue has no boss of lower status than Haslem. He doesn't have to answer to Sashi Brown or anybody else on either the football side or the business side.
To me it means Hue Jackson is the Top Dawg on the football side.
To me I find this thread very funny. The explanation from the Browns regarding this structure is so vague that all fans are left do is sit around guessing what it all really means. Theories and guess work abound!
We see the usual suspects that line up in both directions go about their scheduled rounds. Sorry, but I can't help but laugh.
What we do all know is that a lot of people will be reporting to Haslam. Yet so many are sure he won't be another Jerry Jones. The evidence gives no reason to believe that won't be the case.
There are a lot of plausible scenarios given in this thread. But let's face it, the Browns surely didn't hand anyone a road map.
Edit to add; For the youngsters. Road maps were what were used to find your way from one destination to the other before GPS.
Last edited by PitDAWG; 01/22/1603:37 PM. Reason: To explain road maps
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
Which I take as meaning that Hue has no boss of lower status than Haslem. He doesn't have to answer to Sashi Brown or anybody else on either the football side or the business side.
To me it means Hue Jackson is the Top Dawg on the football side.
and to me it mean if there are any decision to be made it will be haslam. how much will he micrmanage it. well to be truthful we dont know. he has been doing it more and more since banner left i think. JMO...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
Which I take as meaning that Hue has no boss of lower status than Haslem. He doesn't have to answer to Sashi Brown or anybody else on either the football side or the business side.
To me it means Hue Jackson is the Top Dawg on the football side.
and to me it mean if there are any decision to be made it will be haslam. how much will he micrmanage it. well to be truthful we dont know. he has been doing it more and more since banner left i think. JMO...
And what "issues" will Hue take to Haslam for a decision? Certainly not on the football (technical) side. If there is a conflict between the football side and the personnel side, then I expect it will be resolved between the two with Sashi arbitrating, if necessary. While Haslam certainly will be getting reports/updates, the minutiae will be handled at a lower level than Haslam...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
Which I take as meaning that Hue has no boss of lower status than Haslem. He doesn't have to answer to Sashi Brown or anybody else on either the football side or the business side.
To me it means Hue Jackson is the Top Dawg on the football side.
and to me it mean if there are any decision to be made it will be haslam. how much will he micrmanage it. well to be truthful we dont know. he has been doing it more and more since banner left i think. JMO...
And what "issues" will Hue take to Haslam for a decision? Certainly not on the football (technical) side. If there is a conflict between the football side and the personnel side, then I expect it will be resolved between the two with Sashi arbitrating, if necessary. While Haslam certainly will be getting reports/updates, the minutiae will be handled at a lower level than Haslam...
how about issues haslam has if he doesn't like how the playcalling... no guarantee that won't happen. for that matter it might have been happening... no one... no one at all stands between haslam and coaching... for that matter it doesn't even have to be his intention. just a mis spoken word that the headcoach thinks is a mandate...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
To me I find this thread very funny. The explanation from the Browns regarding this structure is so vague that all fans are left do is sit around guessing what it all really means. Theories and guess work abound!
We see the usual suspects that line up in both directions go about their scheduled rounds. Sorry, but I can't help but laugh.
What we do all know is that a lot of people will be reporting to Haslam. Yet so many are sure he won't be another Jerry Jones. The evidence gives no reason to believe that won't be the case.
There are a lot of plausible scenarios given in this thread. But let's face it, the Browns surely didn't hand anyone a road map.
Edit to add; For the youngsters. Road maps were what were used to find your way from one destination to the other before GPS.
You mean thing you burn to make smoke signals for help?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
the reason i think you're wrong is simply that the headcoach reports to no one but haslam...
Which I take as meaning that Hue has no boss of lower status than Haslem. He doesn't have to answer to Sashi Brown or anybody else on either the football side or the business side.
To me it means Hue Jackson is the Top Dawg on the football side.
and to me it mean if there are any decision to be made it will be haslam. how much will he micrmanage it. well to be truthful we dont know. he has been doing it more and more since banner left i think. JMO...
And what "issues" will Hue take to Haslam for a decision? Certainly not on the football (technical) side. If there is a conflict between the football side and the personnel side, then I expect it will be resolved between the two with Sashi arbitrating, if necessary. While Haslam certainly will be getting reports/updates, the minutiae will be handled at a lower level than Haslam...
how about issues haslam has if he doesn't like how the playcalling... no guarantee that won't happen. for that matter it might have been happening... no one... no one at all stands between haslam and coaching... for that matter it doesn't even have to be his intention. just a mis spoken word that the headcoach thinks is a mandate...
For that matter, what if Haslam doesn't like the hue of Hue's tie? What then?
Not trying to be a jerk (but I am being a smartass ) but on the other end of the spectrum opposite Hue answering directly to Haslam so he can manipulated and micromanaged, is that by putting Hue in a position where he only has to answer to Haslam, it gives him legit authority within the organization.
I guess I just don't understand this paranoia about Haslam trying to be a puppet master. The only thing that supports that opinion is an unconfirmed rumor that he overrode his people to draft Manziel.
In military terms, I see this organizational structure as thus:
Haslam: Overall Commanding General
beneath him you have
Sashi: Commanding officer in charge of logistics and supply unit(acquiring players)
DePo: Commanding officer in charge of Intelligence unit(developing the analytics stuff)
Jackson: Commanding officer in charge of on the ground combat operations (obviously the coach)
All 3 have the SAME rank, yet are in charge of distinctly different areas that are intertwined.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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