DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free-agent forecast: 20 players ranging from big risks to big winners

I don't know. I guess I just thought that most people on here would go see the most local college team play regardless of level.

Christian Okoye went to Azusa Pacific and Jackie Slater is the current offensive line coach!

Sadly Ive gone to watch my local team a couple times. It really is kinda depressing because I used to be such a huge fan before I moved out here and hung out on campus a bit. Notre Dame in case you were wondering.

We do, but usually they play on Sunday

You think you're pathetic? I do, but that's another discussion. I live less than a 30 minute drive from the Football HOF and have never visited there. You'd think I'd have gone there once in all these years.

I get what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree.. but he's had some injury issues in the past. Certainly a credit to him that he made the Pro Bowl the season before, while only playing what? 10 games?

I'd agree that he deserves good money... the fan in me wants to say even great/elite money, but the practical side of me wonders if the great/elite money for a guy who has a bit of trouble playing a full season as of late can be rationalized. Don't get me wrong, I do hope we find a way to re-sign him.

I guess it's going to come down to what it always comes down to: what does the FO feel he's worth, and what does HE feel he's worth... and if they are close in number.

really did improve the last 2 years.

I agree with what you're saying as well. What I don't want to do is what BTTB talks about and that is change for the sake of change. Trading out Gipson for another S of his general skill level. I'd like to keep the comradery and chemistry going.

I'm going to one up you and continue to agree with you...

For me, I really don't doubt that he'll return to form. My only real ? about him is if he's going to basically become our Ed Reed... a rare playmaker and game changer, but a guy who ended up being the kind of guy garunteed to miss time.

If we don't re-sign him, I think ultimately we take a step back at that position. Even if there is a player of his caliber available, I'm not sure this new structure of ours will pay out the nose for him, especially considering how much $$$ is already dumped in to our defense.

My worst fear is that Gipson will want to hold out and play a game of who blinks first because I don't think he'll win it. My hope is that with Horton coming back whose opinion of Gipson I can't imagine having changed and that Sashi will put together a fair and respectable offer for Gipson that won't require much haggling and we'll see him in camp Day 1.

Once that is settled, the next question is what to do about our SS spot. Does Whitner have at least one more good season in him?

Maybe having Horton here will up his chances of sticking with the team...

Ray Horton calls him his MVP


BEREA, Ohio -- His teammates call him "Gip'' and defensive Ray Horton calls him his MVP.

Not just of the secondary, but of the entire defense. It's undrafted second-year safety Tashaun Gipson, who was one of the biggest concerns on defense heading into the season.

"I think my biggest surprise and probably the MVP for me is Tashaun Gipson,'' Horton declared Wednesday. "He's done a remarkable job for us.”

Wait a minute, not cornerback Joe Haden, who shut down Cincinnati's A.J. Green in the first meeting and has silenced top wideouts all season? Not Buster Skrine, who's come out of nowhere to lead the team with 17 pass breakups? Not Phil Taylor, who's having the best season of his three-year career, or four-year veteran T.J Ward, who's doing likewise?

Nope, it's Gip, the undrafted second-year pro out of Wyoming who showed enough promise in three starts last year to earn the free safety job this season.

"(It's) because he was a former corner that played limited snaps last year going to a position that requires a ton of smarts and you can never be wrong at the position, and he’s a much better tackler than I ever envisioned,'' said Horton. "He's got fantastic hands, and he's tough and he makes very few mistakes. He’s protected some guys that may have been out of position.

"I use the word ‘unremarkable,’ meaning on a piece of paper when you’re watching practice and grading you don’t remark anything about him because he’s always in the right place doing the right thing. … He has very few mental mistakes and he’s just been a fantastic player. It’s really for me a comfort because I know he’s going to be in the right place at the right time and do his job well.”

Gipson is tied for the team lead with two interceptions and third with 11 passes defensed. He's injured two players this season -- Green Bay tight end Jermichael Finley and Bills quarterback EJ Manuel -- but was flagged for only the Finley hit. And that was a questionable call.

“Coach Horton and the other coaches allowed me to go out there and they trusted me and I had to earn my trust throughout the year,” Gipson said. “Same goes for Buster, and I think we've been able to fill those voids and kind of answer any questions people may have lingering about the other two spots in the secondary. There's still plenty of room for improvement, but I definitely think we've progressed.”

MVP? Score one for the Gip.




Something I found interesting, there was a vote for the defensive MVP of 2013. The names up for vote...


Joe Haden 39.34% (1,044 votes)

Phil Taylor 17.45% (463 votes)

D'Qwell Jackson 13.79% (366 votes)

Buster Skrine 12.43% (330 votes)

Tashaun Gipson 8.06% (214 votes)

T.J. Ward 6.48% (172 votes)

Other: 2.45% (65 votes)

Total Votes: 2,654


The only ones left from that 2013 list is Joe and Gipson.

And to think since those comments were made, Gipson went on to have a Pro Bowl season off of 10 games lol. I can't imagine Horton NOT going to bat for trying to keep him.

If Gipson is still salty from his tender and this past season and tries to play games, I'd love for us to take a run at Weddle as a backup plan. He was all the rage last time he was up for a contract, but we can probably buy low right now. He's had injury issues, but I was under the impression they weren't all that serious.

What you are saying makes sense and really just adds an angle of concern.

Safety may not be difficult to get, but getting a ball hawk like Gipson isn't so common. Whether it's Gipson or any other guy of like talent level, I don't expect us to pay through the nose for if that is what they are holding out for. That's why I said I think we take a step back if we can't re-sign him. No doubt we'd get a solid player to replace him, I just don't think we get one of his caliber.

I don't really believe that will be an issue. The people who had control last year are gone. With a fair offer and Horton back, I would have to think Gipson would be happy to sign.

Yep, the O'neil Cousins are really easy to find.

A top quality RT like Schwartz is not nearly as easy to find. I don't know where people get this idea that Schwartz is some bum at pass protection. Maybe it's because he is not able to consistently handle the very top pass rushers 1 on 1 on every down. (although, he does a nice job on most passing downs, even with a ton of 7 step drops, and QBs who are slower than average in getting rid of the ball) He is one of the very best at his position in the NFL, at an important position.

Schwartz is a solid run blocker, and an outstanding pass blocker at the RT position. I guess that, like a prophet, a good RT is never appreciated in his own hometown.

We need to bring him back. I very well might put him as our #1 free agent priority.

Just a few things about the Browns OL, and Schwartz. (to show local and national opinions)

Ranking all 32 NFL offensive lines this season | PFF
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/20/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-this-season/

Summary: The tackles were the highlight of the line, with both Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz playing extremely well. The interior play prevented this line from being any higher on the list, though both guards were far from disappointing, and Alex Mack never a liability. We’ve just seen them all play better, with it not coming together this year.

ProFootballFocus rates Cleveland Browns' Mitchell Schwartz the NFL's b - Cleveland Browns Blog- ESPN
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...st-right-tackle

BEREA, Ohio -- Mitchell Schwartz is oft maligned by folks in Cleveland who follow the Browns.

But the team’s right tackle has drawn notice around the league. One line coach called him among the top five right tackles in the game, while the website ProFootballFocus.com gave him its best rating.

In an ESPN Insider piece naming the most underrated players at each position based on PFF grades, Schwartz was given the nod at right tackle. He was called “the unheralded bookend tackle in Cleveland to Joe Thomas (who) actually has the fourth-best pass-blocking grade of all tackles.”

Told where Schwartz ranked among right tackles, coach Mike Pettine quipped: “Good for Mitch.”

PFF’s John Kosko provided some more detail on Schwartz. Kosko said PFF’s rankings show:

Schwartz ranks seventh among all tackles, first among those on the right side.

Of the Browns' 260 dropbacks, 81 have been seven-step drops, second highest in the league. This puts more pressure on the offensive line, which is factored into the rankings.

Schwartz has given up 12 total pressures in 260 dropbacks, about one in every 22 plays.

Von Miller entered last Sunday’s game leading the league in pressures. Against Schwartz, he got just one pressure.

Schwartz is not a dominant run blocker, but he’s better than average, ranking ninth in the league at his position.

The Browns have been sacked 22 times this season, but PFF’s analytics attribute 10 of the sacks to the backs or the quarterbacks holding the ball too long. That, Kosko, says, has skewed the perception of the offensive line.

Say this for Schwartz: He has good timing.

His contract is up after this season and if the Browns don’t re-sign him he could be a free agent.

Grading the Cleveland Browns 2015 Season: Offense
http://cle.247sports.com/Bolt/Grading-the-Cleveland-Browns-2015-Season-Offense-42737110

Offensive Tackles

There is not a pair of offensive tackles in the NFL that performed better than Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz. Thomas never missed a snap and posted an overall grade of 94.3 which is the best in the NFL. Schwartz also did not miss a snap and he was rated the No. 7 offensive tackle in the NFL, including left and right tackles. His grade of 86.8 makes him the league's second best right tackle. Both players fared better as pass protectors than run blockers.

Browns247 Grade: A

I blame Norv Turner.

Just a comment on that....money might not be all that important in football as it is in baseball. With the salary cap and salary floor in football, everybody has the same money to work with.

Making your dollars count is much more important in baseball since small market teams have to compete against teams like the Yankees who can spend as much money as they want.

No doubt money will factor in, as in we could sign these 2 players for what we pay Bowe, but mostly, IMO, is it we'll be seeking players who consistently grade out on gameday.

Care to provide some quotes to show which people said that?

I haven't seen any.

Maybe bum is a slight exaggeration. However, it seems like a lot of people seem to think that he is an average or below RT, and he clearly is far better than that. The post I initially replied to seemed to indicate that Schwartz was an easily replaceable component.

This is the post I replied to:



This sure seems to me to indicate that eotab thinks of Schwartz as a "large but not so good Pass Pro RT", unless I am really misreading what he posted. This seems to be an opinion shared by a number of people, though that is strictly going by a mental recollection. However, this idea that many Browns fans seem to think that Schwartz is average to below RT is expressed in a number of articles lately that debunk that idea.

I addressed how people view Schwartz earlier in this thread. I think you are one of the people who overrate him and rip people who offer a more realistic viewpoint.

I didn't rip anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not ripping them. I also backed up my opinion with evaluations other than my own.

My opinion seems more in line with what people outside of Cleveland think.

Okay..........you win the "debate."

I was ridiculed by many on this board when I said josh norman would turn out to be a franchise shut down cb. I said we needed to draft him. I was basically laughed at. Now the Panthers are about to give him a mega contract. ....

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/690290764228730880

Good to see we aren't settling on "The Coon." He was pretty terrible down the stretch last year. He also sucked on kickoffs the entire year.

If they want to hit a home run sign Phil to a two year contract. That should give him the most points in Browns history.

Something tells me that the new front office won't want to pay a kicker very much money.

Yup, we need to sign Dawson as soon as possible in my opinion. Would definitely sure up a position that has been floundering ever since he left.

Assuming he still has the leg... A guy who is consistent from 50+ yards will/can win you 2 or 3 games in a season. Surely there's value in that?

There is value. There are also a ton of unemployed kickers waiting for a call who are much cheaper.

Correct me if I;m wrong, but you lumped Schwartz in with "easy to replace" players, isn't that correct? If I misread what you wrote, then I apologize, and I was wrong.

However, if you are saying that Schwartz is some bum RT, and could easily be replaced, as is what I read the comment to which I replied to mean, well then yeah, I'll argue that such a proposition is 100% wrong. Schwartz is one of the very best RT in the NFL. He is no worse than 3rd or 4th among all RT in the NFL, and probably higher than that.

So, if I misread your comment, then sorry. If not, then yeah, I'll debate against that point 100%.

As for your other comments .... I know GM ... so when it comes to farts .... you sir, are no GM.

Now you are entering GM's world. You'll NEVER take his title away!

I thought that when you said this:



You were talking about Schwartz.

I am of the opinion that Schwartz is one of the best RT in the NFL. He is exceptional in pass blocking, and this is especially apparent when one looks at his pass blocking with 3 different QB who all held the ball longer than most in the NFL do. I agree with you that to even hope to upgrade him, you would have to draft a guy in the 1st. (and even that's no guarantee as someone did a list of OL vs WR, and I was shocked at how many high draft picks used on OL turned out to be busts)

As far as gaseousness ..... all I'll say is that that FEMA has alerts for when GM passes gas.

Schwartz is good, but you overrate him. He is NOT exceptional in pass blocking.

I think if we can manage to keep Mack, and Thomas seems to like Hue, then. O line is that last position we need to worry about.

We need playmakers. We need a starter at every level of the defense. We need another starting CB, we need better OLBs, we need one defensive end.

And we need WRs.

Oh yea, the QB. like every freaking year. Sigh.

Are you guys saying Schwartz isn't gonna be re-signed because he farts too much?

DAMN ROOKIES