DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs Regular Season Continued

j/c

So, most people are going with "it wasn't Lebron, it was the whole locker room" against Blatt.

Well, the "locker room" got what they wanted.

Now, they win the championship, or else the team gets blown up. I'm fine with either.

Hey cav's - win the title, or go out as passive, pouting pansies. It's on you now.

And the new coach I guess. Lebron - you have it in you to play team ball? Or do you want to coach?

Sorry bud, this firing has your name all over it, even if it's behind the scenes. The "team" got what it wanted apparently. Do something with it - as in - win the title.

Anything short of that smacks of Lebron - the so called leader of the team - laying blame on others.

I think that the picture that is emerging is that Blatt was simply not ready to handle a superstar player like Lebron. That's not what he was hired to handle either, so that's not really his fault. Add in players like Kyrie and Love, and it really wasn't even fair to expect him to be ready for that.

I truly believe that there is no way they would have hired Blatt if they knew that Lebron was coming back. None. Blatt was hired to develop young players, and suddenly found himself with a team full of veteran players. Blatt was brought in with the idea of coaching a young team, and he wound up with a heavily veteran team. Given that he had zero NBA experience, there was little real chance that he would be able to handle that. He also had no college experience either. I think that he did extremely well, all things considered. However, I am not going to say that he was treated unfairly, because no matter what he was hired to do, this team became a championship favorite due to Lebron's return, and his job became to coach a championship team. He wasn't ready for that, and that's not his fault, and the need to make a move wasn't the team's fault. It just happened.

I got an ESPN update that said "Two of the East's top teams collide when Toronto meets Miami"

Miami is 23-21. And is a game out of 4th place..

The Cavs will make the NBA Finals by default.

All this freaking out over losses and firing people doesnt matter until June.

I agree.

We'd beat Toronto and Chicago per usual and smash Atlanta. Miami is our biggest threat.

This is how I see it too.

He wasn't hired to coach this team, most fans called that out along the way, and now it seems like most are crushing Lebron, the rest of the team, and the Griffin for firing him. If he was the wrong guy and the team wasn't going to win a title with him, wouldn't it be smart to move on?

We've got people in this thread refusing to support this team any further because they fired an inexperienced coach that got abused in the Finals.

I don't get it.

I was upset when the Browns fired Marty. I was upset when the Indians fired Grover. But Blatt? Bye dude. His attempted timeout in the Bulls series should have caused us to miss out on the Finals.

This part is what infuriates me. Why the hell did we just give Lue an extension without knowing what the hell he can do?

I'll throw a trade idea:

Kevin Love for Derrick Favors

Because he was really our "other choice" when we hired Blatt, and obviously they felt that he was well suited to be the coach based on what they have seen him do with the team over the past year and a half.

I do not believe for a second that they would have fired Blatt, with a 30-11 record, unless they felt that they had a quality replacement at the ready.

j/c:

I really despise when a coach gets fired and seeds of misinformation are planted by management and/or players to make a guy look bad. It reeks of classlessness.

Blatt was 80 and 43 overall, which is the best winning percentage in team history.

The team made the NBA Finals in his first year, despite losing two of their three superstars.

The team was 30 and 11 this year. I believe that Blatt is the first coach to ever be fired while having the best record in his conference. I believe that he had the best seasonal record of any coach ever fired.

Then I have to hear the "rationalization" of how he didn't connect w/his players. Pfffttttttttt.......someone hand them a freaking tissue!

And reading Hayward's comments was amazing. Anyone think that the organization set it up where Blatt did not have authority over LBJ? That never crossed anyone's mind? Seriously? And Hayward is ripping a coach? Hey chump, what the hell did you do to make this team better? You collected a ton of money for sitting on the bench. And YOU---of all people---are talking about the "team." Goodness....

This move stinks! I played during a time when it was the job of the players to conform to the coach. It was the job of the players to keep the coach happy. It was the job of the players to perform on the court and buy into the coach's program. These disgustingly rich, spoiled, pampered NBA players make me ill!

you're not wrong for the most part Vers, but I still think its still a time where players conform to the coach, its just rarer but the ones that do are the GS and the SAS type teams, and the Patriots etc, they have a system, everyone buys in and the pieces are interchangeable because the coach and his system are the same. I think it was a simple thing of blatt being over his head, not respecting the coach or playing his style are one thing, but it could also have been a case with all the veterans knowing what should be happening and it not happening. Sounds like Lue pretty much was the voice of reason in the chaos and this is the result. Kind of in a wait and see, I think if reports are true they should have just done it at the end of the season last year, but that would have been a PR nightmare, not that this isn't much better. But this is about having a short window to win

Vers, I guess it's our fault for talking about it earlier in the thread...lol
As far as I'm concerned they are in put up or shut up mode, as a team...

I really despise when a coach gets fired and people assume they know exactly how things happened and talk about it as fact to make a guy look bad. It reeks of classlessness.

I have to say I'm rather torn on this. One can't really say any of the opinions offered here are wrong.

I vaguely remember people saying last year that if Gilbert knew Lebron was coming back that Blatt wouldn't have been hired.

Was he in 'over his head'? My question is this: At this level, why should he have to be? These guys make enough money in one year to-{insert wildest financial dream here, feed small countries, buy your mom that Honda Civic, you name it}.

Ought they not then have had the professionalism to put aside their pettiness (if indeed that was the case) and played like a team?

Should he (Blatt) have had the stones to call out his 'big three' on the practice court and in the film room?
Absolutely, but if you're a professional that wants to improve you should be open to constructive criticism and gone to your coach in a diplomatic manner and said, 'Hey, I'm a big boy! I can handle it!'

Unless they aren't big boys and can't handle it. I've never understood people that have been blessed with so much talent and money not willing to put themselves aside enough for 'the cause'. Seriously, you are being paid to give your fans what amounts to bragging rights and memories. You should be chanting our names, not the other way around.

Should they have bought in to Blatts system? Well here's another thing, with this roster you might just get into the finals system or no. But that will most likely be as far as you get. Remember, even though we lost Love early in the play offs, we had Kyrie up until the end of Game 1 of the finals. So we were only down one star in the home stretch to get into the finals. (Don't know if I'm being as clear as I want to be here)

Well, that's my non-basketball analyst offering to the discussion.

I don't see why Utah would do that.

I read that comment in a few articles. And my comments are not to you, but to all......

I ask: How can you say a guy is in "over his head" when he coached the team to the NBA Finals a year ago and had them at 30 and 11 this year? Can you imagine how we would react if we ever had a Brown's football coach to go 30 and 11?

Wowsers, after reading through this thread, it's apparent that a couple of you have flown off the deep end. Well, I believe pitchers and catchers report in a few weeks, so you have hat to look forward to.

I'm looking forward to tonight's Cavs Bulls game, Saturday night primetime, woot woot.

Classy. Very classy.

yeah the whole thing reeks of a setup..if they fail this year I hope gilbert blows it up and gets rid of lebron Lue and Griff.

Yes, it was a roster-wide disconnect, but one predicated by LBJ. Simple question: Knowing what we all know about LBJ, if he has no respect for the coach, would anybody else? OPEN DEFIANCE began in last year's playoffs and there is no evidence that it ever stopped. This year's version of the "greatest player in the world" comes in and out of games as he pleases and barks substitutions out loud when he sees fit. This is from Mark Stein during last year's finals:



http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/3896/lebrons-handling-of-blatt-unbecoming

Later in the story:


^This is the problem... This is what leads to scapegoating across the board. K Love (and anybody else) can go into "martyr mode" at any given time and get the endorsement of the team leader (and everybody else on the roster) at the expense of Blatt.

I hate even typing this, I love the Cavs, I love LBJs game... THIS is NO recipe for success, regardless of talent, depth or coaching. Somebody has to look this man in the eye and say I am the COACH, you are the PLAYER - shut your mouth and go do your job.

Then start Roy Hobbs at SF.

Here's the thing though: It wasn't the players talking. It was a lot of reporters, if not all of them, who cover the team on a daily basis.

Jason Lloyd, one of the better beat reporters, said that he was going to write an article about the problems in the locker room a while back, but decided not to because the team appeared to bounce back on the court. There hasn't been just one reporter writing and talking about this stuff .... it is practically every reporter who covers the team saying the same things.

I really do think that Blatt is a good coach, but just not for this team. I think that it was really unfair for him to be thrown into running a team with all veteran players, and 3 superstars, but that is what circumstances threw into his lap. If he had been coach of the team as it was originally envisioned, developing young players and growing with them, then I think that he would have been excellent. With this team, and despite him doing the absolute best he could, I think that he was just out of his league. He was not prepared to handle superstar players. He didn't have the background coaching, in college or in the NBA, and did not have the gravitas necessary for handling NBA superstars.

I think that there were failings on both sides, both Blatt, and the players. Blatt had problems coaching superstars, and with some aspects of the NBA game itself. He lacked a track record that would inspire confidence in NBA veterans. The players did not always tune into what he was saying. It is obvious that they overruled him on occasion. It simply was not a good arrangement, and if the Cavaliers could have gone back in time to before they hired Blatt, and had known that Lebron was coming back, they would have made a different choice as coach. Nothing against Blatt, but in so many ways, he was the entirely wrong choice for the team as it evolved.

I give Griffin credit for recognizing the problems and taking action before things completely blew apart. It sucks for Blatt, but I think that he will have the opportunity to work in the NBA as an assistant, or as the coach of a young team, which is what the vision was for him here originally.

Like when we fired Mike Brown, and its like, ok.. go find a young team, coach them up on defense and fundamentals..

Oh.. You're ganna coach the Lakers now.. uh.. ok.. good luck with that..

Tony Dungy was seen as not being good enough in Tampa Bay, so they fired him and replaced him with Jon Gruden. Dungy has gone 11-5, 10-6, and 9-7. He was fired anyway, because the Bucs felt that they had the talent to be better than they were. Many people thought that Dungy got a raw deal, and that the Bucs made a huge mistake in firing him.

The Bucs won the Super Bowl with Gruden in his very 1st year. The Bucs made the right decision, despite those questions, and the criticism they faced.

A couple things here. The NBA isn't the NFL, where you have to direct 22+ players on offense and defense and get a lot of moving parts working. In the NBA, talent will carry you a long way. I could probably 'coach' the Cavs and get them to 45 wins. Blatt was also deferring a LOT to his assistants, so no one can really say one way or the other if his coaching had any impact on win total.

The other thing is, coaching superstars is a lot more about managing egos, than Xs and Os. That's what made Phil Jackson a great coach. The triangle really isn't some genius idea of a system. It's been tried other places and failed miserably. But Phil knew how to massage egos of superstars and get thme to work in his system.

That's where Blatt was in over his head. In all his years of coaching, he never once dealt with a star as big as Kevin Love, let alone Lebron. He didn't know how to manage guys like that, and they quickly tuned him out. Once he lost the locker room, he was a dead man walking. I don't doubt hes a great coach. He just needs the right situation. This will probably be a great learning experience for him, because he will likely never have to deal with ego as big as Lebron and company again.

Context is everything. Twitter allows for instant communication of events, but it also reduces ideas and quotes to short snippets.

Tyronn Lue doesn't intend to do things differently than David Blatt, just better | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...art_river_index

INDEPENDENCE, Ohio – Tyronn Lue's first media address as head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers revealed he was informative, candid and transparent.

A day after replacing David Blatt, Lue said the team's psyche unraveled after a 34-point pounding delivered by Golden State on the Cavaliers' home turf. He said when faced with adversity, the team tended to fall apart.

"I think the tough times came in when we lost to Golden State, the way they beat us," Lue said. "We came out having a different mindset. We thought the game would go a different way and when they hit us on a fast 12-2 [start], it kind of snowballed from there and we couldn't quite catch up.

"So it was kind of tough for us at that point and we just kind of lost confidence in ourselves. I think that's the disconnect. We lost confidence in ourselves, being a championship team. When a team you're looking to face in The Finals comes in and beats you by 40 on your home court -- one game -- you lose confidence."

Lue said he's not planning on a dramatic departure from what Blatt was doing. He just wants to do things better. Now he'll assume the responsibilities of the offensive side of the game on top of his defensive obligations. Assistants Larry Drew and Jim Boylan will assist with offensive play-calling.

His first order of business will be establishing a consistent second unit. This was one of the major gripes players had with the previous coach.

"I want to try to play 10 guys," Lue said. "Our goal is the long haul of getting to the playoffs and then we can try and shorten the rotation. But as of now, I want to try playing 10 guys so that way we can keep guys ready so we won't run into the same problems we ran into last year in The Finals where guys went down, and the guys [that didn't play], they didn't have a flow to their game because they hadn't played in a while."

Mo Williams will be brought back into the rotation alongside Matthew Dellavedova and Iman Shumpert, giving that second unit more ball-handlers, which should translate to quality scoring opportunities.

The relationship Lue and LeBron James share is well documented. James often and purposely sought the advice of Lue during competition. Blatt didn't feel he had the clout to critique James, which made it difficult to coach him.

"I talked to 'Bron," Lue said. "I told him, 'I got to hold you accountable. It starts with you first and if I can hold you accountable in front of the team doing the right things, then everybody else has to fall in line. Fall in place.'"

James denied having any advance knowledge of Blatt's dismissal and was adamant that he had nothing to do with parting ways with the coach who led them to the 2015 NBA Finals and a 30-11 record this season.

But he did suggest that maybe it was time for a change.

"Our main concern is how we get better," James said. "It's more than wins and losses, like I told you guys before. You guys get so caught up in the wins and losses and I tell you everyday it's not about the wins and losses, it's how we play. It's how we prepare ourselves everyday. You guys asked me early on why I was so frustrated. You guys asked me you guys won seven in a row, why you don't feel [happy.] I tell you guys and for something like this to happen, now you guys understand what I was meaning."

Lue was known to bark at the players behind the scenes, with players typically responding well to the criticism. He's not planning to change that demand.

"More now," he said. "Now I think I can really use my voice because like I said, I didn't want to overstep my boundaries with Blatt. He did a phenomenal job and I didn't want to make it look I was doing more than I was supposed to, but now I think I got be more harder on these guys."

Lue said he received 716 text messages from family and friends once the news of his promotion circulated.

"It was a good day for me, but it was a bad day for Blatt. I don't like to see that happen."

He stressed getting his players to be of the mindset of being "one family." He challenged guys to play harder and emphasized why they minimize their isolation, hero ball ways. With a roster that includes James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, you want those players to have freedom to make plays, but there's a balancing act when it comes to incorporating teammates.

"It's tough. It's a fine line," he said. "So I just got to try to find that line and stay with it and preach to our guys ball movement, execution and then we just got to figure it out."

Love will get more touches on the elbow and the team will look to get him extra paint touches, Lue said. However, he warned Love that sacrifices would still have to be made.

Lue has the backing of the locker room, management and ownership. He's going to do things his way. The goal doesn't change. It's championship or bust, but he's confident in his ability to get the most out his guys.

"I'm comfortable in my own skin," Lue said.

The new era starts tonight against the Chicago Bulls.

Kinda cracks me up how some of the local media acted as if they weren't surprised, and talked about how this had been brewing for a while, yet did we hear anything before yesterday? We heard almost nothing.

So, either they're lying, and are just trying to look like they are on top of things, or they are playing to the Cavs. I tend to believe the former, because even Tom Withers pulled this crap yesterday, and he's as respected as it gets in the media. These guys truly don't have a clue.

I thought the Haynes piece was interesting, and it seemed like it was a reactionary piece in which he did some digging. Not this holier than thou "I've seen this coming for weeks"... and I'm not the biggest Chris Haynes fan.

I just hope they let Lue do his job. We won't really know if this guy is right for the job until we're knee deep in a series against Golden State o San Antonio. There will be doubt until then. Even if you throttle San Antonio next week, the finger will be pointed at 1-3 vs those teams, with that 30+ point beat down as the centerpiece.

I don't believe Lebron is a coach killer, at least in the sense that he asks or asks through his people to remove coaches, but sometimes with the way he plays, he can be considered one.

We argued for months on this board, in the silliest of ways, about what David Blatt's offense is, and we truly never saw it. You can bang on him for rotations and some other decisions (most notably almost costing this team game 4 vs Chicago) but I don't think we really ever ran that guy's offense.

Paul George is currently a top five player in the league.

Kevin Love is. . . not.

Curry
Lebron
Kawhi
KD
Westbrook



Where does George fit?

Let's make this clear. Lebron took us to the finals, not blatt.

Blatt almost cost us a playoff win win that timeout nonsense. He also was gonn have the best player in the league make the inbound pass.

Lebron said no, he took the last shot like a superstar SHOULD and won us the game.

Lebron and delly playing out of their minds won us two finals games. Not blatt stubbornness to keep a 7 man rotation in the finals when we got ton of injuries.

When it comes down to it, he got out coached in the finals, and out coached this season against the teams we will see in the finals.

So while Lebron being a baby is warranted, all his criticism he gets is warranted, at the end of the day, I'm taking Lebron over blatt, because without Lebron, we don't GET to talk about finals.

Hell, we might not even get to talk about the playoffs period.

I'd take him over Westbrook, but it's close. Either way, the point is that the Pacers would never trade Paul George for Kevin Love.

What a great time to be an NBA fan. There are so many great players right. Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Chris Paul, etc. are all great players as well.

I can't believe anyone would actually take Blatt over LeBron if it came down to it.

Many star players have gotten coaches fired in their careers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h7yc5fs

..better?

Would LeBron come off the bench in that scenario?

ESPN gets a lot of things wrong. The trade machine is something they got very, very right.

Kyrie
George
LeBron
Davis
Drummond

The unwritten rule about the trade machine is to make your team better regardless of what you give the other team.. right?

Cleveland fans sure love firing them some coaches.

Good luck. I am not rooting for a bunch of pampered, selfish, whiners.

They're NBA players..

They've been those since the mid 2000s

Doug Collins commenting about the Blatt firing. You think he might be a little biased about this?

Let's just hope Blatt is our Doug Collins, and Lue is our Phil Jackson.

Bye.

Go cavs!!!