DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum As the Cavs' World Turns

I was aware of all of those facts. But the Cavs aren't in this to just be a good team, they are in it to win a championship... and right now, the Warriors are on a plane by themselves at the top of the NBA, half a step below them is the Spurs... and a couple steps below them are the Cavs... and right there with them are a couple other teams like the Thunder, the Raptors, and the Bulls....

You can blame LBJ if you want, I can't prove you wrong... The Cavs record against the 5 teams listed above is 2-6.. I don't really care what there overall record is beating up on the 76ers and the Phoenix Suns of the world, they aren't beating the other top tier teams in the league.

Something had to change to try to breathe some life into this team and there isn't a team in the world that is going to keep David Blatt and send LBJ packing... So if Blatt couldn't inspire them, if Blatt couldn't get them to play hard, if Blatt couldn't get them to consistently do what it is he wanted them to do... then find somebody who can.

I could have sworn I said: "some--not all..." No?

How did you miss the comments before my post:

--Some people are acting like the up-tempo thing was Lue's idea.

--You mention the Suns and Philly, yet people were talking about great we played last night.

--Blatt wanted ball movement. It's not a new concept.

You say that something had to be done and that is to fire the coach. I say that perhaps the players should have bought into what the coach was trying to establish instead of being selfish, pampered, whiners.

I am sorry if it bothers you that I value integrity more than victories.

Maybe Blatt is a terrible leader? That is a possibility, not everyone can corral NBA superstar egos and command respect - it takes a very special person to be able to do that.

If you had a job with a horrible leader would you do everything you could to follow no matter what?

I'm not saying Blatt was a bad leader, but he just may have been. No one really knows except the players. He obviously didn't have much respect, LBJ caused or not.

I really don't care either way, Blatt was always just kinda there to me. We are here to win a championship, if we do I'll be happy. Blatt may have been a nice guy and a great coach, but his record against the upper echelon on the league stunk.

Blatt brought Lue on.. I would assume Lue knew what Blatt's intention was..


It's just a small reason for optimism that they haven't taken a step backwards with the change.. in the long run, it really doesn't mean much.


Well he wasn't getting it. For now, Lue is... we can speculate all day on why that is..


Shoulda, coulda, woulda... Blatt wasn't getting the results and we were not going to win a championship. Considering how Toronto and Chicago are playing, we might not even get to the championship... so you can beat your head against the wall wondering why the players never bought into Blatt or you can make a change.... if you choose to make a change you can decide what that change is... so what changes would you have made? Bench LeBron? Trade LeBron? Suspend LeBron? After a year and a half of Blatt, how were you going to get the same players to buy in?


It doesn't bother me.. I want a championship that is won within the rules.. if we can do that with everybody hugging and singing kumbaya, great.. if we have to ruffle some feathers and make some unpopular decisions along the way, fine... Blatt wasn't going to win a championship with this team as it is currently configured.. end of story. And the Cavs were not going to trade away a slew of all-stars to try to find a bunch of guys that would buy in and respect David Blatt so they could make a run 4 years from now...

So to end my post with a condescending comment the way you normally do... I'm sorry if I also understand that this is a business and not a church youth group and that decisions will be made with winning as the ultimate goal.

Great post. Btw........you might wanna research who brought Lue in...

Ok, so Lue was here first.. doesn't change the premise that when Blatt was brought in, I'm sure they talked about how they wanted the offense to run...

Well, if Blatt is getting credit for the wins, shouldn't he be held accountable for the losses and poor play?

well, seeing as victories against good teams is what will finally end our championship drought.

the whole point is to win. it's been how long since cleveland has seen a championship?

if we win a chip this year, nobody is gonna give a damn about what happened to blatt, except you.

hell, even if we get to the finals, it'll be at least clear that blatt wasn't the reason we went.

so at the end of the day, it won't matter that blatt got axed.

I didn't see one person who said that. Like others have said, it was probably Blatt's idea to play up-tempo, but Lue is the one that's getting them to actually do it. Does a lot of that fall on the players? Probably. But at any rate, you were asserting that just a few days ago that Lebron demanded Blatt get fired because he was "forcing" them to run up-tempo against the Nets and Clippers when he wanted to run the ISO-offense that got them killed against the Spurs and Warriors. Seems like that is not the case.



Yes they played great. Should we sulk and mope instead? As long as they continue to look better, it's reason for optimism.



I realize that you are probably much more of a Blatt fan than a Cavs fan. I don't even recall you posting much on Cavs threads until after the hiring. If it really bothers you that much, then why continue to post here? Most of us cheer for the name on the front of the jersey and not the names on the back (or in the program). Blatt got a raw deal. Chances are he's going to get a much better coaching gig and the respect of the players he was never able to get here. The Cavs players get the coach they probably respect more, and it's possible it gives them a better chance to win. In the end, it's a business. If Blatt lost the locker-room and isn't going to be able to get the job done, something has to change ... and it's pretty hard to trade out your entire roster.

While it stinks that Blatt was fired, it was probably the right thing to do. His weird personality rubbed people the wrong way and it was a shock that he lasted this long. It was time to move on. The players quit on him.

just a general feeling that I have..... I think this year's Cavs are last years Indians. All the potential to get it done, but they're going nowhere.

They're going to the playoffs as a #1 seed so far. Much further along than the Indians!

Missed this comment from yesterday ... I think this is why Delly gets the kind of minutes he does. He's the closest thing to a floor general that we have. He directs traffic and looks to get shots for others. If we could put his head on Kyrie's body ...

It's the NBA and we're in the East... that's not totally impressive.

I know I'm being lil childish, but those consistent long pauses Blatt would have while having a presser would just irk the living sh*t outta me. It's like, if you can't think fast enough to talk, how is your thought processing ability on the court when decisions perhaps need to be made quickly?

Maybe it was more a case of him knowing what he WANTED to say, then having to tone it back to what he COULD say..

Boy though, it was a frequent occurrence in his pressers and it's been present in all I've listened to of his. Surely there can't be that much dirt and fog in his brain to have to second guess/rethink his words.

Idk, little childish on my behalf but, hey lol...

I can't say I've watched a ton of Blatt pressers over the last couple years and the ones I did watch, I didn't notice this as that big of an issue. People just have different speech patterns.

I know in my own patterns I used to pause a lot, sometimes to compose myself and think of the right words, sometimes just for some dramatic effect... then I got married and realized that if I paused at all, I might never get to talk again.

I'm not even married (yet) and I dont even have to pause..

My wife or daughters will ask me a question and I'll say 'Well…' (I'm pausing so I can give a good answer not just a blurt) and they just jump right on in there and keep going cause I paused so long!
And then there's the times that I'll say 'Well…' and not say anything. Which drives them nuts!

Ahhh.........good one. Y'all love to run in packs.

I don't see how else you could read what you are saying Vers. You don't like the Cavs now because they fired a coach? Who cares? As others have said, I don't follow players, coaches, GM's, owners, ball boys, assistant coaches, etc. I follow the team, the city they represent. If someone felt Blatt wasn't getting it done, does it matter? Professional sports is a cut-throat business which is why all involved are paid handsomely.

If they win a title it will look like a good move, if not then a lot of questions will be asked.

Good Lord! I had never even heard of Blatt until the Cavs hired him.

Look, I am not asking you to agree w/my take. But, damn man......I am entitled to it! I do not like how the NBA pampers their athletes and allows them to have more power than the coach.

I have no problem if that doesn't bother you. But, I don't need to take a bunch of crap because I still believe in values.

Well, since you've already made it perfectly clear you disowned the cavs and are now a spurs fans, the above statement seems to be accurate.

Another one.

Are you DJ Khalid now?

You know, for someone who cries all the time for being treated unfairly by the majority..........you sure haven't gained any insight of how to conduct your own approach towards others.

This is sports talk. I keep that separate.

For somebody who cries about accountability, you sure do get pissy when somebody calls you out on your words.

Anyway,

The players are enjoying flying down the court on offense. JR swish is playing lights out ball these last few games. And I'm really liking what I'm seeing from iman shumpert, delly, and Jefferson.

TT is cleaning up the glass better, and mosgov might have finally found his hands.

Nice to see Andy get some meaningful minutes.

I was aware of some of those things and suspected the rest.

The point is, what else do you do....cut James?

Sorry man, that isn't a option..Cut or trade Love, Irving?


I don't know many who like this..More than any other sports league, the NBA is player driven, meaning the coach needs to be a players coach unless he is one of the legends. After that, coaches are fired all the time if the players don't like him.

No way Blatt deserved to get canned, but it is what it is. The Cavs have a window of maybe 2-3 more years. The time is now.

If the Cavs win, good deal. I am sure Blatt will get a ring.

So, treating people fairly and not ganging up on them w/others only works some of the time?

I hear you, Swish!

Later..............

You always bring up values, so what about Johnny? What kind if values does he have? As you may recall, I was one of the few that was on Johnny's side when Pet benched him. So what kind of values does Johnny have that have you backing him, yet a highly paid, underachieving, inexperienced NBA head coach gets canned and you won't root for the team anymore?!? It just makes little sense to me.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, I've got no problem with it. I just don't understand giving up on an entire team when a coach gets fired.

Yeah, and when the guys were ganging up on you about Manziel, who stepped up to defend you?

Values are important to me. Is that a negative nowadays?

Y'all will turn this around and purposely misconstrue my intent, but did Johnny ever:

--refuse to run the plays that the coaching staff asked him to run?

--push his coach?

--go behind his coaches back to ownership?

--embarrass his coach publically by not listening to him on the sidelines?

--tell a player to go back to the sidelines [Kyrie] after his coach tried to enter him into a game?

Just wondering..............

--

"Fair" doesn't exist in pro sports.

Coaches are fired "unfairly" all the time. Players are cut "unfairly" all the time. Sports needs good coaches, but you cannot win, especially in the NBA, without star players. Superstar players often get their choice of coaches, because they can. Players come "home" to play, and are cut or not re-signed the next year.

We have a team with 3 superstars. Griffin looked at the team, and saw that we were not good enough, with Blatt, to beat the top teams. Because of this, he made the change and Blatt was out.

If a GM has a championship roster, and thinks that the coach could be holding that group back, then it is his responsibility to make a change. We can talk about the record we have, and I would counter with the opinion that we would have the same record if you were coaching the team. The talent on this team has a high floor, and they are going to be able to beat a lot of teams in the NBA just by being better players than the other team has. That's not good enough to win in the Finals though.

I thought that Blatt was put into an awful situation, because he was hired to coach a young team, and then he found himself coaching a veteran team with 3 superstar players. It's not his fault that it didn't work. It's not his fault that players got hurt las year in the playoffs. (though he did play some players too many minutes) He also did make tactical mistakes.

Blatt was miscast with this team from the start. I cannot imagine a coach who had never coached in college or the NBA doing a better job, and in many ways, he did even better than some experienced coaches might have done. However, in the end, Griffin had some legitimate concerns, and he did his job and addressed them. That's his job, and he will answer for it if firing Blatt backfires somehow. However, coaches get fired, fairly or not, all the time. Our new coach, Hue Jackson, led the Raiders to an 8-8 record, despite a front office that was in turmoil after the death of Al Davis, and yet he was fired anyway. (and the Raiders haven't replicated or exceeded his 8-8 since) Was it fair that he was fired after doing what most said was a very good job in difficult circumstances? Of course not. However, fair really doesn't exist in business, and make no mistake, sports are a business. In Cleveland, with this team, just winning a lot of games against teams the team should beat just wasn't good enough. It may not be fair, but it is the reality of the situation that the front office just felt, for a lot of reasons, that Blatt was not going to be able to lead this team to a championship, so they made the change. I was as shocked as anyone, but I also know that this isn't the same as being the coach of the Browns or Indians. Win most of your regular season games in the role of manager or coach of either of those teams and you'll be sports royalty. The Cavaliers are on a completely different level though. Plateauing at a high level against fair to bad teams isn't good enough for the Cavaliers. They need to win against the very best, and the decision was made that Blatt wasn't the guy who could do that. I can't disagree. You can, and that's your right, but don't pretend that a case cannot be made for either side of the keep/fore Blatt debate, and that only time will tell if this was a good decision. Also, don't pretend that any decision in sports is ever made on the basis of whether or not it is "fair". It would be fair that Joe Thomas retires as a Brown, but if Seattle called and offered to trade Russell Wilson for Thomas, he's out of here. Fair just doesn't live in the world of pro sports.

A lot of you are acting like I am way off on all of this and resort to saying mean-spirited things, but nationally, almost everyone is in agreement w/my take. Did any of you listen to the TNT pre-game last night? Not one of the 4 guys supported the move. Kenny Smith had an interesting comment. He spoke about how the guy who had the best record in basketball was fired and the guy w/the worst record in the NBA was given a contract extension. And that is not good for the NBA.


Let me guess.........they are all idiots and don't know basketball like you guys do....right?

I think it comes down to this. Players win the games. They win the championships. I have NEVER said that Blatt "got them" to the Finals. But again, it comes down to the players and when you have players that are selfish, self-absorbed, and wanting to play the blame game instead of holding themselves more accountable, you are still going to have the same issues as you have had in the past.

Since we're playing the Pistons tonight, if I were Lue, I'd rest the big3 for tomorrows nationally televised game against the Spurs just to spite Pop. Nah, that would be totally lame and stupid...just like when he does it.

I'd be fine if Lue rested them tomorrow. You're the only "anti rest" guy I've seen on here.

Nah, I'm okay with resting players. Pop tends to do it on nationally televised games against big opponents to spite the NBA and it's back-to-back scheduling. He's sending a message as much as he's resting a player.

LeBron w/another classy move last night. Yelling at TT about a defensive rotation. Publically embarrassing him. I wish TT would have knocked him out.......and TT is the one guy who could do it.

What kills me is that of all people, LeBron should not be criticizing others regarding defense. He walks back all the time. He doesn't fight through picks. Many times, he doesn't close out. His rotation has been spotty, at best. And he tries to humiliate TT about defense??????

I am to the point where I despise the guy. And I am not alone.

I understand that LBJ is a superstar and TT is making really good money, but the above comment just boils me blood because it's so true. More often than not it seems, and I didn't recall this much when he played with us before The Decision, he does all what Vers laid out above, and it truly pisses me off. Be lazy, but at least shut your freaking mouth and kick your ego down a notch or two please. When he started at TT, oh boy was I starting to literally become irate.

...

In terms of the game, it was nice to see that ball rotation and Kevin Love being able to drain them. JR Smith has been playing so well and it's become a game-after-game pattern. From his defense to his driving and attacking to rim to the swish ball - he's getting it done and very well.

I don't like seeing all the lazy passing leading to steals, hopefully we can get that cleaned up. I liked seeing us handle the Pistons though, hopefully that steam will carry over.