DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... 11-year-old boy convicted of killing 8-year-old girl

https://www.yahoo.com/news/11-old-boy-convicted-killing-8-old-girl-233330962.html?nhp=1

WHITE PINE, Tenn. (AP) — An 11-year-old boy in Tennessee has been found guilty of murdering an 8-year-old girl after she and her sister refused to let him see their puppies.
WATE-TV (http://bit.ly/1KtuoNA ) reports that Jefferson County Juvenile Court judge Dennis "Will" Roach II this week found the boy guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced him to state custody until he turns 19. The Associated Press does not generally identify juveniles accused of crimes.
In his order, which WATE posted online, Roach said the state should use all reasonable resources to determine why the boy shot the girl, and he should be treated and rehabilitated so this never happens again.
"A child who commits first-degree murder cannot be willy-nilly turned loose into society," Roach wrote.
The boy is currently in detention and being evaluated as to where he should be placed, said Rob Johnson, a spokesman for the Department of Children's Services. "Like any other child who comes into custody, he would need a thorough assessment and evaluation to determine the best placement," Johnson said. "At this time, it would likely be at an intensive treatment program at one of our private providers." The boy has five siblings — three brothers and two sisters — who have been placed with relatives and the state, Johnson said.
The boy and 8-year-old McKayla Dyer lived in the same mobile home park in White Pine, Tennessee, about 40 miles outside of Knoxville. McKayla, her 11-year-old sister and another girl, also 11, were playing outside and talking to the boy while he was sitting at his bedroom window on Oct. 3, 2015. He asked the sisters to go get their puppies, the judge's order says, and when they refused he went and got a 12-gauge shotgun and a BB gun and told the girls he had guns. According to the judge's description of the events, McKayla laughed at him and responded that the guns weren't real.
The boy "then made certain the gun was loaded, cocked the hammer on the gun and shot the victim just above the heart at a downward trajectory," the judge wrote.
The girl fell backward, "quickly lost consciousness, and was later confirmed dead," the judge wrote, adding that three witnesses saw McKayla within one minute after she was shot.
"The mother of the child knelt on the ground and picked her up, placing her child in her arms as she passed away."
The boy had been trained in firearm safety and had hunted with his father and grandfather, the judge noted.

Lock up your guns.

I guess.

Hopefully the parents lose their right to own guns.

I put the blame squarely on the parents. They are raising the kids wrong if:

1) guns are viewed as a solution to anything
2) guns are accessible


Beyond that, an 11 year old kid is too young to charge with an adult crime.

The way they are handling the punishment or placement is interesting. I think if he's 14 or older, it's easier to just put him in juvi, then when he's 18 into the pen.

But 11..... Ugh

I don't know if state custody is the best solution. I don't know what is the best solution.


In my job, I have to deal with juveniles on a regular basis. Some are smarter and more mature than teens many years older. Some are imature and dumb as a box of rocks.

I think it depends on his maturity level. It's something only a jury can decide.

Also, although I am generally pro gun, I am super against young children being trained in guns and hunting. Like they mention in this article. Kids this young simply aren't mentally developed enough to handle the responsibility of guns. Right and wrong is warped in their mind. Hell, I deal with enough older teens and young adults who can't grasp right and wrong.

So I place this crime squarely on the parents.

Sounds like a psychopath to me, kids can be psychopaths.

An 11 year old kid is not a psychopath because his daddy taught him how to shoot a gun.

It just means he isn't mature enough to handle the responsibiliy.

One time I was at the gun range target shooting. There was a dad teaching his kid to shoot, the next stall over. For me it was horifying. The kid was maybe 10-12. I did not feel comfortable at all. There should be an age limit on that.

Were you at Cleland's Gun Shop in Toledo? It might have been me, helping my daughter when she was about 11.

Nah, you wouldn't have been there and felt uncomfortable. My daughter was learning. How to handle a gun. How to aim. How to re-load the magazine, etc.

It wasn't her first lesson, it wasn't her last. Is she capable of handling a gun, now, at 15? Yeah. Does she, if I'm not with her? No.

She's also seen what a gun can do to a deer. She knows full well what a 12 gauge slug can do - and she knows the size of the hole it leaves. She understands that when dad pulled the trigger, the deer was alive. Then it was dead.

Obviously, I personally feel that teaching her how to shoot is a benefit.

Obviously, she has no access to a gun unless I am with her. And truthfully, as much as she likes to shoot, she has no desire to shoot by herself. I think that's good.

Oh, man... I don't EVEN know what to do with this one.

The fact that this boy was schooled about firearm safety is immaterial to what went down... kids of this age have zero understanding of issues like mortality and the sanctity of Life. At this age, their cognitive functions are only about half-wired... and higher executive functions (such as judgement, action/consequence, etc) aren't really in place until their mid-20's.



Maybe so... but he wasn't trained to understand that death is a permanent state that you cannot undo if you make the wrong choices in Life. He wasn't trained for that- because he wasn't yet capable of being trained for that.
Kids under the age of about 16-19 generally lack the capacity to understand those concepts on ANY level. It's why we see so many teenagers die before they reach the age of True Cognition.

I'm reminded of the yearly 'death watch' local news stories about teens involved in fatal traffic accidents during prom season. I'm reminded of the premature death of Linda Cory, a girl whom I knew since 7th grade, who died in a fiery car crash during her Freshman year at college. 3 kids dead. One survived- with life-altering damages. No guns were involved, but the end results were still the same: tragic, senseless death... because young people were given freedom and tools that required more maturity, intelligence and judgement than they were equipped to handle.

______________

This one makes me want to lose my dinner. It's so raw, tragic and permanent that words don't do it justice.

You guys know me. You know my views on Guns In America. You know that I don't own or carry, for my own reasons. So you already know that I'm not anti-gun. At the same time, I will offer up this thought for you to consider:

Stories like these are the price we Americans must pay (and continue to pay) for a society that is so closely tied to firearm ownership.

Before you start getting on me for being all 'preachy,' please understand this:



I'm actually OK with it.


I've resigned myself to the fact that every single day, someone in America will lose someone they love because of the 2nd Amendment. I've resigned myself to the possibility that someone I love will die because of it. I'm resigned to the possibility that one of us Dawgs will issue up a "Prayers, Please" post in EE, because his/her life has been permanently altered because of the Second Amendment.

Whether it rests within the hands of a gang member, a CLE police officer, a frightened 55 year-old widow on her way to the parking lot, or a ticked-off 11 year old boy, a firearm has one (and only one) purpose: to place a fatal hole in its target. And it worked again this time... like a charm.

And we have THREE HUNDRED MILLION of these 'uni-tasker' tools in the United States. Big ones. Small ones. Long-range ones. Short range ones. Semi-automatic ones. Fully-automatic ones. .22's and Magnums... all (or most- please don't channel your 'inner geek' on me...) designed for the same general purpose: to place a hole where one didn't previously exist. In living tissue.

_______________

This one MADE me want to lose my dinner... but numbness kept my crab cakes, broccoli and risotto right where I put them.

Numbness is the price I'm paying as an American citizen, so that My Fellow Citizens can exercize their rights. It's a better alternative than actually feeling what just happened to two American Families in Tennessee. But I'm absolutely certain that my time is coming.

I WILL feel it at some point in my life. I'm certain of it.

I'm already resigned to that eventuality. The numbers bear that out- it's only a matter of time.

And tonight, I'm still OK with it.

Because I know there's nothing I can do that could possibly change it. I live in a metropolitan district that is loaded with 'swarthy Mediterranean Types,' and I'm statistically less likely to be slain by terrorist activities than I am being felled by a stray bullet sprayed by a fellow American Citizen. THAT is my reality.

And I'm still OK with it.
Because THAT'S what it means to be an American Citizen- in 2016.


Bang, bang.
Cha-ching, cha-ching.

So please... let's not have a bunch of disingenuous 'hand-wringing' and "sympathies for the bereaved." Let's just be adult about this, shall we? Everything in Life comes with a price tag attached. In the case of the Second Amendment, the price of freedom is Death.

Because that's what these tools are designed to produce.

Pay up, U.S.A.
It's the cost of doing 'bidniss as usual.'
And- it's the adult (American) way to think about such an issue.


.02

That's nice that you taught your 11 year old kid how to shoot a gun. I won't feel comfortable around it regardless of how well you claim your kid is trained.

There should be a legal age limit on shooting a gun.

Children are not emotionally mature enough to handle the responsiblity of guns. Children are barely emotionally responsible for texting and having friendships with other people.

But Eve... we don't have that, and we most likely never will.

As a society, we can't even begin to agree on whether we actually NEED rules about such things. Your conversation with arch is a shining example of that.

Which is why I'm saying that resignation is pretty much the only option we have available to us.

Laws haven't really reduced the number of incidents like these.
'Bad guys' keep on shooting holes into other 'bad guys.'

'Good guys' are still good guys... until they mistakenly shoot holes into other 'good guys.'

There is no way to avoid stories like the one that spawned this thread. NO WAY.

_________________


Arch is a friend of mine. He and I have been hooked for almost 10 years. I trust that he's done everything in his power to train his Sooga in firearm safety.
What I DON'T trust is his neighbor. I don't know if someone he's known for 20-30 years has done the same fine job training themselves and their kids as Arch has done with his daughter. There are too many variables in the works for me to EVER trust that.

This thread could just as easily have been generated by a story from NW Ohio as much as it was from TEN.

Hell.... every year, I hear gunshots on New Year's Eve, just a block away from my house... and wonder how stable the person/family is that fired off those reports. Dude/chick/their kids just put 10 rapid-fire rounds into the air... because the clock struck 12:00 AM on a calendar?

Rules & laws ain't gonna stop this, Eve. We HAVE rules & laws. We also are privy to 'common sense'... but that isn't a 'God-given right' for anyone. Some people are just too stupid/unbalanced to be entrusted with lethal weapons... but they have that right- and it's not for me to decide who's worthy of ownership. We can't even reach consensus on what's crazy these days.

THIS is what we're left with... and I can't see any legislative solution to the problem of gun death in this country.

Crazies are going to shoot up schools and movie theaters.
Stressed-out idiots are going to pump rounds into cars that are playing music too loud at drive-up food joints.
Senile old men are going to kill 'Trick-Or-Treaters' with a shotgun on "Beggar's Night."
And 'sane' people will miscalculate a situation- and make a tragic mistake.


It's the price All Americans must be prepared to pay, so that other Americans are allowed to exercise their Second Amendment rights.


It's the 'flip-side' of 'Individual Rights In America.'


You can't have The Good... without accepting the consequences of 'The Bad.'


I'm OK with it.
I really am.

THIS is the bed we've made for ourselves.
If the sheets get tangled (and make a mess) as we wake up, groggy, from the 4th stage of Deep Sleep- and slay our own children... oh, well.... they shouldn't have sneaked out from a house that was perpetually on 'high alert.' Mom can't be held responsible if she put 3 rounds into her daughter sneaking back into the kitchen door when the child was supposed to be asleep in her 2nd floor bedroom.

Better to be 'locked & loaded,' if we hear a sound at 3:00 AM... and it's our teenaged daughter returning home from a night out with her friends... than be un-strapped when that (1 in a million) long-shot 'bad guy' tries to break in our house.... bent on mayhem and destruction.

Your rules' won't change a gattdamned thing, Eve.

We've already MADE the society we now own.

The same thing could be said about many 30, 40, or 50 year old people.

You would have had a heart attack if you would have been around when I was a kid. At 11 I was going to the shooting range uptown by myself. How did I get there? I walked all the way up town (around 2 miles) carrying my gun and ammo. I had no parents around. I knew how to handle the gun. I knew about gun safety. I knew I could kill somebody if I shot them, and what would happen to me if I did.

I think much of America does not realize how "mature" so many 11 year olds are at this particular point in time. I don't think many people realize how corrupted some of these kids have become. I don't think they realize how dangerous some of them are.

It's a different world from the one many of us grew up in.

I read Arch's post..agree with him...read Clems post and damn finally agree with him on something...Clem your post was nuts on to me.

I had my sons around and shooting from the time they was about 5...started with a 22 rifle and 22 cal handgun....by the time they was 10 I had no fear of them handling firearms..none.

Now that isnt saying they had free run to firearms but I was very confident in them not doing anything like in this article in this thread.

And sorry just because you are uncomfortable with it is your own problem and how you deal with it is your business. Glad you dont make the laws because I enjoyed nothing more then shooting with my father as a young child...hell it was 1 of the only good things I remember growing up and doing with my dad.

So read Clems post and then read it again....hope I didnt come across as whiny..racist..or misogynistic.

Murder is the cost of the second amendment? That's one way to look at it that I guess I haven't before . Don't disagree but surprised me that I haven't thought about it in that light before . One of the reasons I like this board is the bits of insight I find from time to time . I was also wondering what media play this would get when different names and places were added. For instance if this happens in Chicago inner city and the players were minoritiees does it get print space at all ? If this happens in The Hamptons to an affluent family does it generate a talking heads panel on MSNBC ? No this happened in a trailer park in Tennessee to a poor family of backwards rednecks ( my sense from the article ) so there will be some head shaking about bad parenting and we will move on the the next killing which shouldn't take long .

I truly do think the gun issue is a total cultural thing.

I live in an area where hunting and gathering remains as a huge way of life. Subsistence lifestyles still exist, and they're a wonderful thing to see. Many of my students spend their spring, summers, and fall out hunting for their family. Many of these households get their numerous chest freezers packed with seal, musk ox, moose, and a plethora of different kinds of fish.

Many of you may call this gross negligence, but not many of these firearms end up locked into a safe. They sit in corners of houses, but no mass killings happen out here. There's suicides every 10-15 years, but that's not really a "readily accessible firearm" kind of issue.

I'm more of the liberal persuasion, but living out here in the sticks of Alaska shows me how some politicians just don't get it.

Yes, out there they must be ready to save their lives from treacherous animals that have no concern for Humans.

Wait, uh, it's not much different down here.

I completely agree with our right to bear arms. That should never, ever be taken from us!

However, I have a 15 year old son who would never, by my standards, be considered mature enough to learn about, possess or carry a firearm. That would be a tragic accident waiting to happen.

This is more about proper parenting than anything else. Training a child to shoot is acceptable. However, availing a gun to him/her is unacceptable by any standards....especially an 11 year old.

Two families are suffering and learning this lesson in a very difficult manner. One that none of us ever hope to face. Responsible gun ownership is the key.

Equating any human to an animal tells me more about your worldview than anything else, 40. I want to act surprised you'd say that, but I'm truly not.

As a responsible gun owner, I had my guns locked up upstairs and my ammo under lock and key in the basement when I had young kids and teenagers. The highest threat I faced was an accidental shooting among family members. That was just common sense.

If you live in an area where the threat is higher from outside but you have kids with you, a common sense thing to do would be to carry in the house or have a gun quickly available but carry a speed loader or clip in your pocket. Guns can't kill without bullets, unless of course you ask a Lib.

At night while sleeping, a trigger locking device can be opened in a second by only you, no one else.

Common sense is a wonderful thing.

I am not surprised you can not see there is not much difference between a pack of wolves going for your throat and a pack of Humans doing the same. You stop them or you die. Your worldview is that of an upcoming victim I will sadly read about in the papers over my morning coffee.

Up there you live among a people who know life is hard and thus very precious. Down here life is easy and unfortunately very cheap.

Gh

Likewise.

Just another peep out of me: I don't think this story is so much a gun issue story as it is a social issue.

Everyone always seems to want to talk about gun control, but rarely does anyone want to address the factors that are making our youth more violent, less caring, less respectful for the rights of others and authority, and much more dangerous to society.

Thus a wise man will quietly arm himself for the protection of his own until the day comes where society is no longer a threat.

Human life is sacred; so much separates us from animals. Never could I pull the trigger on someone. It's not up to me if someone should live or die.

I respect your attitude and your right to live as you choose.
I am not afforded the same choices for I have many more than just myself to protect.

We have talked about this before in other threads, but the problem is nobody wants to hear it.

the gun problem and social problem is a marriage. they go hand and hand together. we have talked about the gun culture before.

because unlike anything else, people feel bad ass when they hold a gun. that power the gun gives them, thats a real psychological thing that can't even be denied.

and you see it in our culture everyday. you see it in movies and tv shows. the "hero" is getting his ass whooped in a one on one fight against the villain. he reaches for the gun and shoots the bad guy.

you see it in real life. people wanna run their mouth, get their ass beat in a fist fight, then pull out a gun because they bit off more than they can chew. Hello george zimmerman.

so people can say what they want about GZ, the fact of the matter is that if he wasn't packing, most likely he doesn't even confront trayvon, because it was the gun that gave him the feeling of power, not his neighborhood watch thing or whatever.

why does that guy in florida feel the need to carry his gun when confronting a bunch of teen over loud music? he shot those kids who weren't doing a damn thing wrong except being kids.

this 11 year old kid. he didn't go get a bat, a knife, nothing. he went straight for a bb gun and a shot gun. he already knew which "tool" was gonna give him instance results.

i'm trying my hardest to stay pro 2nd amendment, but people in this country make it extremely difficult with some of their arguments.

the "defend ourselves against the government" argument is becoming funny to me. because we shoot each other at such a rate that whatever government planned on doing to us, we're already doing to ourselves.

the guns aren't being used to protect us from the government. they're being used to protect us from each other.

it's become way more than "defending your family". now we got guys wanting to walk around with their "rights" in walmart and chipotle. now they doing it in airports.

this right here is what pisses me off:

Over 7,000 children are hospitalized or killed due to gun violence every year, according to a new study published in the medical journal Pediatrics. An additional 3,000 children die from gun injuries before making it to the hospital, bringing the total number of injured or killed adolescents to 10,000 each year.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/he...ticle-1.1592703

Every day, 48 children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.

Every day, 7 children and teens die from gun violence:

5 are murdered
2 kill themselves.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/key-gun-violence-statistics



this is ok? if this is ok for you guys in the name of "Defending ourselves against the government" then we will never been cool in real life.

i always found it funny how people can be anti-abortion and pro 2nd amendment.

so you're ok with the babies being born, but don't give a damn once they're alive right?

cause these stats show that the pro-"life", pro 2nd amendment people don't give a flying crap about it. or there would've been something done about this already. the numbers have been here for decades.

it's ok that we live in "the greatest country on earth", yet our kids are 9 times more likely to be injured/killed from gun violence than any other developed nation?

that's ok? because we gotta defend ourselves against the jackboots, right?

let me make this clear on this board. i might distrust the government, but i distrust YALL even less. i might have minimum trust for the cops, but i don't have ANY trust for the pro 2nd amendment civilian population.

you, the parents, and you're gun slinging kids, are scary to me. that's the truth, be offended all you want, but thats the reality, and it won't change.

we have way too many irresponsible gun owners, and way too many hot heads allowed to own weapons in this country for me to just be ok with this.

and no, giving more people guns isn't the solution. that right there has to be the all time dumbest argumentive point i've ever heard in my life.

and parent's need to be more responsible?

i don't expect them to. not when we got grown adults shooting each other cause somebody smashed the wrong chick or dude.

not when we got grown adults shooting up movie theaters and clinics.

not when we got drunken idiots popping off rounds in the middle of the suburbs and gotta get the cops called.

not when we got parents accidentally shooting their own kids in the house because they thought it was a robber.

the numbers.....the blood shed....you can't just chalk this up to irresponsible parents anymore. this has gone way beyond that excuse. it just simply doesn't fly.

Vers, you wanna talk about social issues with guns?

that's fine. let's talk about how people care so much about guns and the invisible war against the government.

let's talk about how people don't even realize all the other rights are slowly being taken away from us, but we're too blinded to realize it because the only "right" people seem to foam at the mouth for is the 2nd amendment.

let's talk about how we as a society seem to be against abortion, but fine with the consequences of those same kids we're "protecting" being killed anyway.

let's talk about how we as a country like having the right to a gun, but nobody wants to fight for rights for healthcare, clean water, fair education.

let's talk about how we as americans fight for the right of destruction, but we don't actually fight for the right of life.

Thanks for being honest. You have no respect for me. Got it.

Not sure where "gun slinging kids" comes from, though.

And, I'm not sure how to reconcile your first comment, about trying to be pro 2nd amendment, with your other comment I quoted, about having "no trust in pro 2nd amendment people."

And then, to cobble things up more, I remember you owning weapons, but then selling them. (did you do background checks?) But, also saying you wanted to get more guns. Whether you did or not, I don't know.


But, regardless, you have no trust in me or my "gun slinging" daughter. Got it. We aren't breaking any laws. (and come on, you really think my daughter is walking around with a gun?????? You think my daughter has ever touched a gun without me?)

Yet using what is currently considered illegal drugs is just fine with you?

1 guy breaks no laws, yet you don't trust him. One guy breaks laws daily, and you celebrate it?

damn, son.


way to speak your mind.

Absolutely correct.

The family falls apart. Discipline is forbidden. Responsibility is all too often a foreign concept. People want to know not what they can do, but what others can give to them. Christianity is somehow a threat. The Bible is to believed, except for the parts people don't want to believe. Children disrespect their parents. Children kill other children. Many people have no respect for the property of others. Far too many people desire material "things" as opposed to a relationship with the God who created them. Marriage is temporary, for as long as it is as wonderful as both partners believe it should be, but then they get bored, then divorce is normal.

*sigh*

God gave us 10 Commandments.

You shall have no other Gods before Me
You shall make no graven images to worship
You shall not misuse the Name of the Lord, your God
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not lie about your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's belongings, or wife

10 rather straightforward things God commanded of us, and most we break on a daily basis.

People create their own god, who does what they want him to do, as opposed to obeying what God told us to do.

People worship all kinds of images, from hero worship, to statues.

People misuse the Name of God all the time. It is, horribly enough, a generally accepted figure of speech.

Jesus excused us from the Sabbath, teaching that the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. God wanted us to have a day of rest, from the richest to the lowest slave.

Kids disobey and argue with their parents all too frequently these days. Some see it is their right, as parents should not be allowed to tell children what to do.

Too many people casually commit murder, but Jesus said that if we hate someone, we murder them in our heart. I don't know too many people who can handle that level of scrutiny without seeing their own guilt.

Adultery is so commonplace today that it is incredible. Jesus went even further than the physical act being adultery, and said that anyone who lusts after another commits adultery in his/her heart. Darn near every show on TV shows people in adulterous relationships, engaged in premarital sex, or in relationships the Bible specifically forbids. These are shown as desirable, and good, and people follow their examples.

We are not supposed to steal, but people see theft as acceptable, as long as it's not "too bad". Steal someone's songs on the internet? Well, that's not really stealing. Take office supplies home from work .... well, they owe me for all of the extra time I put in. Steal a TV in a riot ....well, they owe it to me.

Do not lie about your neighbor is broken so often it would be humorous if it wasn't so sad.

Finally, there is the Commandment against covetousness. Look at almost every commercial on TV for any product that costs more than $20, and it is likely that they use covetousness as their basis. "Your neighbor has this, and you don't".

Our country routinely breaks all 10 of God's Commandments, and we often see it as good, proper, and desirable to do so. Is it any wonder that more and more people seem to have major problems in dealing with others in a civilized manner? Is it any wonder so many kids are growing up unable to respect the person and property of others?

thanks

One can be a moral individual without following a religious belief system.

Many countries across the globe lack the religiosity in America, and many of their citizens appear happier, better outcomes for their lives here on earth, more economic prosperity and less crime.

Not arguing that a sound belief system is awful, but more so saying "it's because of how irreligious we're becoming!" doesn't lead to moral breakdowns in societies.

Why dont you just say its a pseudo penis..Power...man maybe some but you really think I carry a gun because I think it makes me feel powerful?? holy crap...its like second nature to me..matter of fact I even forget I'm carrying sometimes..that sound like someone feeling all powerful due to a gun Swish?




I dont fist fight anyone anymore for reasons youre aware of. Matter of fact the people I know who carry try to avoid trouble not go looking for it...and if Zimmerman is your comparison to all gun totters well



You make it extremely easy for me to want to carry with your arguments...I wont comment on the kid stuff you talked about...but damn man we are a violent society/world



No it most certainly is about defending my family...and if people are carrying in these places legally well you can go to the numerous places that dont allow it.



I always find it funny considering what black people have went through in this country..would be ok with being disarmed...can you tell me why you keep saying this?? Who in the hell says they dont care about a baby after its born? I'm honestly interested enlighten me please.



No I'm not offended your scared of kids learning proper gun safety...sounds like its your problem not mine and you will need to deal with it...thats my opinion and it wont change.



Well you are free to move to one of those other developed nations...no one is stopping you...and it is the greatest country on earth.



But you want to take away more of our rights because your not ok with this particular right...sounds like youre foaming at the mouth as well.



People do fight for health care...I pay through the nose for it...and for those who cant afford it...My drinking water seems pretty good to me and just about everywhere in the US Ive lived...and the last I checked no one is being denied an education...may not be able to afford it or like what you pay but it is there for anyone who wants to pursue it.

Dont fight for life?? Yes you and I did with many others...and dont you believe in a womans right to abort?? well fight for those lives..or dont those ones matter??

sorry for the length and I hope you find my responses respectful...your post reads like you are indeed pissed off and I'm not looking for an argument just my thoughts to what you wrote.
FBHO71

For every 100,000 kids like Arch's daughter who are taught to use firearms responsibly, you'll have one Michael Myers who was born without a conscience. With a sociopath like that, if it hadn't been a gun, it might just as easily have been a knife, or a hammer, or a rock.

it's funny how you said you wasn't gonna comment on the kid stuff.

that was the main point, and instead of posting a response to that, you walked around and commented on everything else.

i respect your opinion and i appreciate you responding, but i disagree with everything you said.

Dave: i don't care how many kids are learning gun safety. they aren't the problem. i care about the 10k kids getting shot. THAT'S the problem.

or and Dave: a rock or knife? whats the odds of survival or defending yourself against a melee attack over a gun? don't bother, you already know the answer to that question.
just because they are more kids learning proper gun safety doesn't mean we ignore the issue.

we have a gun culture problem.

FBH. you are right. we are the greatest. we are #1 or top 10 in:

gun deaths, gun violence, people in prison, etc. kids dying from gun violence, kids getting injured from gun violence.

what an amazing thing to be #1 or top 10 in the world in. everybody give yourselves a pat on the back.

Swish, I enjoyed your post. Very passionate. I like that. But this comment confuses me:



Not sure if I am misunderstanding you or if you totally missed my point.

I was trying to say that every time some tragedy occurs, the focus is on gun control. Some wanna get rid of guns. Others wanna keep guns.

I am trying to say that this topic is BIGGER than guns. I am not taking a stand on the gun issue one way or another. My point is that I think that society is doing a pretty poor job of raising their children. Not all children. To say that would be stupid.

However, I can tell you guys because I have experience on the front-line when it comes to working w/today's children. I saw Clem made a post about shades of gray and gave you credit for having real experience. I agree w/him on that. However, he--nor anyone else----wants to acknowledge my points DESPITE the fact that I have worked so many different situations w/today's youths. I have worked w/the very rich. I have worked w/the middle class. I have worked w/the kids from the worst ghetto you can ever imagine. I have worked w/poor kids who have families trying to do it right.

I have seen what social media has done. I have witnessed how video games, music, tv, movies, and cell phones have influenced the youths of today. I have witnessed students stabbing each other. No gun needed. I have witnessed students beating the crap out of female teachers. I was in the building when a kid took out his junk and rubbed it in the face of a girl. I taught a kid who later took his member out to defy a female teacher. I was at a school where a boy tackled a girl, pulled her skirt up, and said he was going to do both her and her momma. I taught a kid whose mother sold him to men for drugs. I could go on and on and on.

And no one wants to talk about that. We just gotta keep having the same old conversation about taking away or keeping guns.

It's deeper than guns. There is a problem w/how we are dealing w/today's youths. They can be saved. But, we better focus on the real issues instead of turning a blind eye as to why children are so violent, confused, and angry and pretending that every time someone is killed it's all about guns!

nah i get what you was saying, and that's why my post was about it being way deeper than gun control. thats why i started talking about the power people seem to get when they hold one and such. it wasn't like a direct response to you.

but yea i agree with you. bruh, why is it that everything, from movies, music, tv, video games, etc. deal with guns being the best way to solve things?

my thing is when we're talking about guns and such, everybody's first response is "well, i do this, what about me, i'm not a criminal".

I and me. it's never "we" or "us". which tells me they know it's a problem, but we shouldn't do anything because they as individuals don't do anything.

as a collective society, we have stopped giving a damn about each other. as a collective society, yes, we care more about guns than the kids getting gunned down in the streets.

we make that painfully obvious. why?

Vers, you're right, everytime a tragedy occurs, the focus is on gun control.

on the flip side to that, everytime a tragedy occurs, the first response is either:

A: "don't take my guns"
or B: "we need more guns or this wouldn't had happened"

And you know as well as i do that B is used a LOT.

so to the board, you know how your NRA guys and all you pro 2nd amendment guys always say "if the other person was strapped, it wouldn't had happened"?

"well if the 8 year old girl had a gun, she wouldn't had got shot"

say that sentence out loud. then go tell that to your wives or husbands, out loud.

sounds stupid doesn't it?