DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Carson Wentz

I guess where we differ is that if I took Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater, and Garopollo as a group and put them up against Goff, Wentz, Lynch, and Cook, I would have a hard time saying one group was any better than the other. If we had any one of Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater, and maybe Garopollo right now, we could be thinking about taking the best player available, like Bosa, or the best LB, or the best WR.

You are right..........we certainly differ as to how we rank both groups.

Look, I want the Browns to get a qb, too............but, taking the wrong guy is devastating. I don't see one guy in this draft that I would draft in the first round.

Well, I hope that you are completely and totally wrong if we do wind up taking one in the 1st.

I see some promising traits in about 3 guys, but also some concerns. I do think that we will go QB at 2, because we hired an offensive coach, and he is going to want his choice of QBs, and he can take the best one in this draft. How that will work out, I don't know. However, I do think that we have the right guy to develop a young QB, and we do have a decent bridge guy in McCown, so we don't have to throw a rookie into the fire from day 1.

Sooner or later we have to hit on one of the QBs we draft. I mean, the odds have to be in our favor by now.

Sad part is odds of us picking a winner QB havent changed one damn bit. If anything it has probably gone down since we have shown that even when we do take a QB with talent he is a headcase lol.

No the sad part is we've been trying like hell to pull one out of our ass by going the route of taking guys mid round one. You know the ones.

We haven't been in this position since 1999 with Couch and McNabb.

Thank god this isn't the Locker, Ponder, Gabbert draft year.

Wentz and Goff both are viable #1 QB's going forward. If Farmer was still here, I'd be worried. Really worried. But Jackson I'm much more confident in.

I'm leaning heavily toward Wentz. Goff's frame just rubs me wrong. Wentz fits us perfectly. He fits the AFC North. We need to close this gap we've let happen with Rothburger, Flacco and Dalton. Especially with Burger getting close to his end. Brady and Manning will be gone soon also. We gotta nail this. It could be a tide turner in the North and the entire AFC real soon.

I have got to believe Wentz is as good a prospect as Bortles was, and I was amazed to see that Bortles threw for 35 TDs last year. If we take Wentz, who is smart and has physical tools and a great attitude, put him behind a good OL and show him the patience we showed Johnny, I would really have to think it would work out.
If we keep saying none of these quarterbacks are worth our top pick, then we are going to always be drafting guys in the middle rounds who have a much lower chance of panning out. We have the highest pick that I hope we ever get again, and I think we should get the best QB we can - this year.

This is exactly the type of thought process that initiates bad moves that will more than likely hinder a team for years.

If the Browns take a qb this year at number 2, they will not draft a qb for the next 2-4 years. They will give that guy every opportunity to become the guy. We will hear excuses about how he has to learn the NFL game, how he never played against such good competition, how it takes time, etc. And that will only retard the the process of finding the right guy.

If you need a car, you don't pay $90,000 for a Civic. A Civic is a fine car, but it's not worth that much. You can find a Civic for much cheaper. Overspending leads to debt.

Vers - agree. We shouldn't take aQb just to take a Qb. There's a lot of discrepancy regarding the evaluations of the top 3. But what if they weren't in the draft? Does that mean you take Cook or Hackenberg #1 overall?

The determination in my viewpoint is:

1 - Do you have a Qb available who could reasonable develop into a top 10 Qb in the NFL? If no take different position. If yes, go to #2

2 - Is there a player at another position who with reasonable likelihood could develop into a GOAT at his postion? If #1 and #2 are both yes then go to #3.

3 - If both #1 and #2 are yes, then re-evaluate the Qb and decide if he can be elite.


Comments:

I don't think being a top 10 Qb makes you an elite Qb

I think you need a top 10 QB to win the Super Bowl, but he doesn't have to be elite - though that helps

You need to be right in your talent evaluations. It doesn't matter how you decide which player to take if you are choosing between 2 bad players or if you pick a bad player over a good one.

This last comment is where a lot of the angst comes from on this board. Some posters feel one or more of these Qb's can become a top Qb whereas others don't. Some of us will be right. Some of us will be wrong. Let's just hope the Browns talent evaluators are right and that the people making the decision listen to them.

I'll say it. None of these QB's are worth a #2 pick or a top 10 pick for that matter. round 2 is pushing it. 3rd rounder imo. would much rather try to get Fitzpatrick or Cousins and draft Bosa or the best player available.

If Hue agrees with you guys, then I will admit I'm wrong. He knows the position from up close, and he knows we need one. But he won't draft one at No. 2 just to draft one.
I get that people aren't impressed with these guys, but I'll bet a lot of folks did't believe Bortles or Carr would be good, either. And I would start rebuilding with either of those guys (though not Bridgewater). We can't just say every year that no one is good enough for us. We have our pick this year. I hope it is the last time we can say that.

I like this comment. Very true.

You do realize that the quarterback didn't lead Denver to winning a Super Bowl, right? Denver actually played w/two qbs this year.

Denver's D led them towards winning a Super Bowl.

The Browns have HUGE needs on the defensive side.

I get that the QB is the guy who everyone looks at, but there is more to the game than just one position.

Somewhere Ray Farmer got a tear reading your post Vers lol.

What is really funny for all of Manning's great play at QB. The 2 superbowls he wins, he sucked ass throughout the playoffs both times he gets a ring.

"You do realize that the quarterback didn't lead Denver to winning a Super Bowl, right? Denver actually played w/two qbs this year."
=========================================================

Denver ok. Ravens ok.

How about Montana, Brady, you want me to keep going? The list is pretty long.

Yes the Browns have many needs. They also spent more on defense than any other team in football last year.

There is of course more to winning than just the quarterback position. But I also realize your odds of winning without a good one are not so hot.

Guilty to the accusation that the quarterback is the most important position on the field.

I am NOT saying the Browns don't need a good qb. I am saying that you can't force the pick just because you have a need at that position. Drafting a dud qb w/the second overall pick would be yet another disaster in a long line of disasters for the Browns.

The Browns received pretty good qb last year. They still stunk. Their defense was terrible. They did not pressure the QB. They struggled w/pass defense. Their WRs are terrible. They need help in multiple areas. Drafting a guy like Goff is NOT going to solve the other problems.

The Browns should take the guy that will have the most positive impact on games, regardless of position.

Brady won his first 3 on the back of a Top ranked Defense, and his 4th on a great play BY a defender. (Also see: Kicker)

I didnt say any of those things.

But most of those QBs had exceptional defense the year they won, so i could say they wouldnt have won without that either.

The challenge with that statement is that going from bad to just above average at QB would have a greater impact on the Browns winning games than going from average to tremendous at most other positions.

As much as I like the idea of taking a Wentz and imagining him panning out to be a true "franchise" QB, the reality is that the QB play we got last year IS good enough, especially if we get better production from our WR's and RB's to go with it.

Adding difference makers on Defense and putting a squad out there that gets turnovers and gives up precious few points is absolutely just as valuable.


If we can find a way to do both, so much the better.

Good enough to do what? Go 8-8?

We moved the ball ok between the 30s but we lacked the quality of QB that could make the throws to get the ball in the endzone. That's why we finished 30th in the NFL in scoring and 25th in yards. Would it have helped to have a top notch #1 WR? Yea, sure..

The only reason people are ok with our QB play is because it didn't suck as bad as it was supposed to and the numbers on paper didn't look horrible... so on a relative scale, it's not so bad. Nobody in the NFL feared our passing attack, in fact they wanted to force us to throw as often as possible.

Even if, hypothetically, our passing game was ok.. the guy who did most of it is 37 years old...

It was some of the best QB work we've had - period - in the last 25 years.
As sad as that may be, it makes a point. It's good enough to get by with.


You are correct about that one thing, though... we need to get younger at that position, for sure.

Call me crazy, but I don't want to get by. Atlanta is getting by, Cincy is getting by, San Diego is getting by... and they all have better QB play, consistently, than we do. The teams that are competing for and winning championships in the AFC have Brady, Big Ben, and Peyton Manning... that's about it. Their supporting casts rotate through, offensive coordinators come and go, defensive players rotate through... but those QBs are the constant.

Can you try to build a defense like the '85 Bears, the '00 Ravens, or the '15 Broncos? Yea, you can. It will take getting about 6 or 7 pieces and just the right DC and an offense that won't screw it up... and while I wouldn't be opposed to winning a super bowl that way, look at the Broncos, they have about 4 or 5 guys from that defense that are going to be looking for serious cash, same thing that happened to the Seahawks... you can have a really nice 2-3 year run with a dominant defense, you can have a nice 15 year run with the right QB...

I think some of you are very confused.

I am not saying the Browns don't need a good qb.

I am saying that I don't see a qb in this year's draft.

Why draft a shabby player just because you have a need at that position?

I don't think I was confused, I actually thought I was closer to your opinion than not...

I would still take Jimmy G over the entire lot of them.

How is Bridgewater better than Carr or Bortles?

In what world is UCF considered a small school? In 2013 it was in the same conference as Louisville. And as far as size, it has a larger student body than Ohio State.

Sure, but like USF, most students live off campus.

And I imagine you know what he meant, not a school known for it's football prowess.

Heck, my UConn Huskies beat the heck out of them this year in football. Of course the Huskies are on the up and up

2013 UCF Knights Football Schedule
Final Record: 12-1, 8-0 (AAC)

Date Opponent Time/TV Tickets

Thurs.
Aug. 29 Zips Akron Zips
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Won 38-7 ---

Friday
Sep. 6 Golden Panthers at FIU Golden Panthers
FIU Stadium, Miami, FL Won 38-0 ---

Saturday
Sep. 14 Nittany Lions at Penn State Nittany Lions
Beaver Stadium, University Park, PA Won 34-31 ---

Saturday
Sep. 21 --- Open Date --- ---

Saturday
Sep. 28 Gamecocks South Carolina Gamecocks
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Lost 28-25 ---

Saturday
Oct. 5 Tigers at Memphis Tigers
Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium, Memphis, TN Won 24-17 ---

Saturday
Oct. 12 --- Open Date --- ---

Friday
Oct. 18 Cardinals at Louisville Cardinals
Papa John's Cardinal Stadium, Louisville, KY Won 38-35 ---

Saturday
Oct. 26 Huskies Connecticut Huskies
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Won 62-17 ---

Saturday
Nov. 2 --- Open Date --- ---

Saturday
Nov. 9 Cougars Houston Cougars (HC)
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Won 19-14 ---

Saturday
Nov. 16 Owls at Temple Owls
Lincoln Financial Field, Philadelphia, PA Won 39-36 ---

Thurs.
Nov. 21 Scarlet Knights Rutgers Scarlet Knights
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Won 41-17 ---

Friday
Nov. 29 Bulls USF Bulls
Bright House Networks Stadium, Orlando, FL Won 23-20 ---

Saturday
Dec. 7 Mustangs at SMU Mustangs
Gerald J. Ford Stadium, Dallas, TX Won 17-13 ---

2014 Tostitos Fiesta Bowl
Wednes.
Jan. 1 Bears Baylor Bears
U. of Phoenix Stadium, Glendale, AZ Won 52-42 ---

Looks like a decent schedule to me.

that's true, but I just don't see how you can say Bortles' Knights played and easy schedule and not have the same criticism for Bridgewater's collegiate body of work.

I liked Bridgewater a lot better than Bortles, too, but part of that was you got to see apples to apples comparisons as they shared many common opponents.

that's true, but I just don't see how you can say Bortles' Knights played and easy schedule and not have the same criticism for Bridgewater's collegiate body of work.

I liked Bridgewater a lot better than Bortles, too, but part of that was you got to see apples to apples comparisons as they shared many common opponents.

Bonefish, sorry. I thought you meant Bridgewater IS better than Carr or Bortles, not that he was coming out of college.
I remember really, really liking Carr the most and being ticked off that we didn't get him. I remember because it was one of the few times I was right. But Bortles seemed like nothing special, and now he looks like he's going to be great.

Being part of one of the worst teams in the NFL and going 11 and 5, winning the division, outplaying Wilson in a cold-weather playoff game, beating Carr head to head despite less offensive talent, losing the playoff game only because the kicker missed a FG that was shorter than an extra point.......sure is cause to act incredulous as to why anyone would think that TB is better than Carr or Borltles.

Oh............I forgot. It's all about stats.

Stats may not be everything, but Bortles threw 35 TDs this year and Teddy threw 14. Carr followed up a rookie year in which he had 21 TDs with 32. The Browns have not had a QB put up the numbers Bortles or Carr did this year since Sipe

Teddy is an overachiever and he plays for a really good coach and has superior talent to those guys. I like him. But I am pretty sure if the Raiders of Jags offered to trade QBs, Zimmer would be ecstatic.

I did not mean to disrespect anyone's opinion by coming off incredulous, so for that I apologize.