DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack: Cleveland Browns going in right direction

I'm not asking you to take sides,, Geez.

I'm just saying, who are these guys that do the Mocks. They are talking heads for the most part. Yes, they follow the game closer than you or I so you'd think they'd know more than you or I. But the fact remains, they don't really know squat.

They guess,, Educated or not, it's a GUESS.

Oh, I know you didn't ask, but I thought I'd make my position known...

j/c:

Farmer is gone. Not sure why we are discussing where other people had Erving ranked?

I think the real question should be: Is Erving good enough to be counted on going forward?

At this time, I would say no. My evaluation isn't based on what round he was supposed to be drafted in. Rather, my opinion is based on how he looked on the actual field of play last year.

Theres a difference between not living up to your draft selection, and being a reach.

Erving was not a reach at 19.

He is however not currently living up to his draft selection.

I agree if we have to keep playing him out of position. The guy is a center.

Give him one position to play and let him develop there. It's not fair to him to keep moving him in and out of every line position.

The Browns better hope his position is benchwarmer.

Vers, let's hope the new regime knows how to develop Cam and use him right. He has potential but needs work in the weight room. If they let him work at one position he could be fine. We could hope.

Joe Thomas: We won’t get better if Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz leave

Posted by Josh Alper on February 14, 2016, 7:31 AM EST

Since the end of the regular season, he Browns have made major changes to the front office and coaching staff and those changes have led to a shift in thinking about left tackle Joe Thomas.

Thomas was nearly traded to the Broncos before the trading deadline, but remained in Cleveland and the new administration says there are no plans to deal Thomas this offseason. Thomas knows the right offer could change that thought, but plans to be in Cleveland and knows that he’d like to continue playing with center Alex Mack and right tackle Mitchell Schwarts.

Mack can opt out of his deal and Schwartz is set for unrestricted free agency, leading Thomas to say that losing them would mean a step back for Cleveland as a team.

“I understand from a business standpoint they need to move on if they get a better offer somewhere else. I certainly would understand it, but I definitely hope that they’re back,” Thomas said, via Cleveland.com. “I don’t know what the Browns’ perspective is on it. I feel like we have a lot of salary cap space to spend on it. … We have the best right tackle and the best center in the NFL and I’d certainly like to keep those guys. You’re not going to make your team better by getting a worse player at those positions.”

The flip side of that is that the Browns haven’t gotten any better by having the trio on their offensive line, so they might opt to try something different in roster construction as they have in putting together their new personnel department. Whatever their intentions, Mack and Schwartz should have plenty of other interest should they hit the open market next month.
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I agree w/Joe!!!



I hate dumb comments like that. Sounds like something someone on a message board would say.

Until we find a QB worth 19+ million a year we can afford to have a high priced O Line..

i would really like for Mack and/or Schwartz to return but I do think the team has options if one or neither do.

As far as Cam Erving. I thought he showed much improvement the last few games of the season when he played RG. He was terrible most of the year but players do develop in the NFL and yes even on the Browns. I think Buster Skrine's rookie year he was just as terrible on the field as Erving and he improved each year. Still hate to not have him in the Orange and Brown.

Also, Hue has some strong connections with some free agent OLineman like Steve Wisniewski C Jags who was drafted while he coached the Raiders and Bengals RT Andre Smith. They would come cheaper than Mack and Schwartz. Both have experience and can play and the money saved could be used to solidify some other holes.

Good God mac, I totally agree with you!

Me too.

Amazing, huh?

How long has Tomlin been the Steelers' coach ?? If the Browns can EVER hold onto a coach for more than 2 seasons and have continuity with the coach and his players, then maybe, just maybe the Browns will begin to hold onto their own Free Agents.

We are ALL guilty of that.. a coach is signed, and says.. it will take 4 - 5 years to build a good team/program. We ALL.. Fans, Media, ownership claim to understand and agree on that point. Then after 6 months to a year and a half into the building process, everyone is yelling for the coach's head.

I'm happy with signing Hue. I was happy with Pettine. I was happy with Chud. I was happy with Shurmer, and Mangini. If Blanton Collier wasn't deceased, I would be happy with him. I think any one of them could build a team WITH Front office support. Unfortunately, there has been little to no front office support for any coach since Shottenheimer, and even he was fired.

The Browns need continuity. You can not build a team changing coaches every 1 - 2 years. With Continuity you will have a coach who is familiar with who is on the team, with their strengths and weaknesses, more than he is familiar with players from other teams he has coached. A player who the coach feels fits in his system. One that he knows has been taught what he wants them taught rather than what someone else thought was important. I feel that if we get continuity in the Coaching Staff, we will have continuity in player retention, but first we have to keep a coach for longer than 2 years.

Continuity .. Continuity .. Continuity

I'm not a big Tomlin fan at all, and I don't think the Steelers are any better than the first year he took the reigns. I do, however, think just the continuity of having the same coach (and qb) at the helm has allowed them to be better than average.

I think we should fire Hue. He's a trash coach who hasn't won anything.

We need to start a thread about our next coach. Maybe we can add another forum? You know, like the Draft forum, right? We could call this one: The Next Coach forum.

If you felt they were worth drafting in the first place then they are probably worth retaining depending on how they played for you. If they played well, or at least decent, you should try and keep them. case in point, Ward, Sheard and Skrine. All players we drafted, played decent for us and knew the system. Look how bad our D got when they left. I forgot Rubin.

or we could start a pool.. everyone picks how many days until Hue gets fired. Maximum length of pool is 1000 days.

j/c

I realized, thanks to article written by Pat McManamon, Mack's contract is guaranteed $8 million dollars next three years. At 30 yo I wonder if he betters that contract. I'm thinking $24 million guaranteed is a lot. Can he stay healthy and does a playoff team with enough cap exist to pay near that amount? He'll likely see an $17 to $18 million over 2 years. I'm thinking that is a lot of Benjamins for a center. Hold on to that thought it is a done deal Mack leaves.

Mac, you wonder if it sunk in after two years trying to quick fix. Haslam completely changed the front office philosophy. Attempting something completely unorthodox he must know things will be bumpy first couple of years. Let's hope it doesn't turn into a complete mess. Otherwise, he has no choice but resorting back to traditional methods.

I believe you read that part incorrectly. Actually, I think Alex Mack's guaranteed money (based on this contract) has already been paid. ($26MM but then, $8MM becomes guaranteed in April if he is one the roster). What PM was referring to is Mack's salary would be $8MM for the next three years if he re-ups and he is not sure if anyone would match that annually. I believe we could cut him (not that we would) and take $0 in dead money in 2017 and 2018.

Whether Mack wants to stay or not, I think he opts out for the very reason above-- to get more guaranteed money. It makes complete sense to go this route, IMO.

Isn't Mack the highest paid center already? It is hard for me to believe someone will pay much more than $8 million for a center. I can't believe it'll be a playoff team. Center is not that type of position. Mack is a helluva a player but that is a hefty price. I won't say no one will sign, because we've seen bizarre things. Interior lineman has never demanded that much of a need.

With Hue as the new head coach, does Mack see greener pastures signing for less elsewhere? I guess is the biggest question. If another rookie coach, I can more likely see it.

I'm still leaning slightly Mack stays. Mack has good people playing around him. He goes elsewhere and things might not be nearly as good.

The Browns' habit of continually blowing up the Coaching staff and Front Office every 1 - 2 years has an effect on philosophy and schemes. Without continuity, there is little chance to retain your own Free Agents because of scheme fit ( 3-4 vs 4-3 or West Coast vs a downfield passing game or Power Blocking vs zone blocking ) and that is without getting into personalities and attitudes as we saw with the 2015 Eagles.

We need to find a front office and a coaching staff to stay around long enough to settle on what style and who we need to pick/keep. I will not argue that there is a need to keep your own Free Agents, and build on your established roster. I feel that to be able to do this, the Browns need to find continuity in both the Front Office and coaching staff in order to build the roster that fits the scheme.

According to Spottrac, both Pouncey brothers, Hudson, and Sullivan are making more per year (on average).

I don't think it is really about the $8MM number as it is about getting a significant amount in guarantees over the next few seasons. Yes, $8MM will be guaranteed if he opts in for this year, but what if he gets injured again-- possibly career threatening? The following year's money is not guaranteed.

It doesn't matter if he sticks to the plan, if they don't come out of the shoot winning, the fans, many who claim we need continuity, will be saying to fire everyone, just like they did this past year.

It's funny, many posters bash Haslam for the constant turnover, but yet are the same ones calling for the head coaches head five games into the season.

The media is the same way. If the turnaround isn't immediate, they will call for firings and continue their bash the team mentality.

That sounds very reasonable. Maybe it is the only realistic play. However it happens, I want him here, first of all; second, I want him rambunctious to play here.

It is time for a gut check on returning linemen; it is indeed ironic to hope for loyalty to a franchise that has thrown a number of individuals under the bus while keeping some that should have been gone. Hope we are finding the "bus-worthy" right now.

Blowing it up a little bit is not all bad.