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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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well, i had to bro.
what kinda of hypocrite would i be posting all this stuff for being anti-religion, but then turn around and say " i didn't read it" if you guys ask if i did or not?
besides, i've told you my background as a child growing up, i didn't have much of a choice.
of course i didn't read it in one shot. i don't think too many people in history has of course. but i did read both front to back.
i'm currently working on the Veda right now(Hinduism), next is the Pali Canon( Buddhism).
Last edited by Swish; 02/16/16 03:59 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,073 |
Here's what I can do for you.
Does the Bible not tell us that Jesus was sent here as an example for mankind? Does it not tell us that even though we will fail, we are to try to live as Jesus lived, without sin?
Who was the Father of Jesus? Was it Joseph or God? We all know the answer to that right? So if the Bible says that Jesus kept the Sabbath of his Father as was his custom, would that not be God's Sabbath, not strictly the Jewish Sabbath?
1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, God rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3.
2. This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.
3. Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. Genesis 2:3.
5. He sanctified the seventh day. Exodus 20:11.
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3.
7. It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.
8. Jesus says it was made for man, that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew. Mark 2:27.
9. Not only is the Sabbath made for man, but Jesus said that He was Lord of the Sabbath. Mark 2:28.
10. It is a memorial of creation. Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.
11. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.
12. It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God's holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all through the patriarchal age. Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28, etc.
15. It was a part of God's law before Sinai. Exodus 16:4,23-29.
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. Exodus 20:1-17. Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. Deuteronomy 4:12,13.
18. Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger. Exodus 31:18.
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. Deuteronomy 5:22.
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. Deuteronomy 10:1-5.
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. Exodus 34:21.
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12,13.
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from the false gods. Ezekiel 20:20.
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath. Jeremiah 17:24,25.
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. Nehemiah 13:18.
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. Jeremiah 17:27.
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. Isaiah 56:6,7.
28. This is in the prophecy which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. See Isaiah 56.
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. Isaiah 56:2.
30. The Lord requires us to call it "honourable." Isaiah 58:13 Beware, you who take delight in calling it the "old Jewish Sabbath," "a yoke of bondage," etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many generations," it is to be restored in the last days. Isaiah 58:12,13.
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16; John 15:10. Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord's day. See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her. 1 Peter 3:6.
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. Mark 2:23-28.
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. Matthew 12:1-13.
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was "lawful." Matthew 12:12.
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. Matthew 24:20.
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. Luke 23:56.
41. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the sabbath day." Acts 13:14.
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "sabbath day" in A.D. 45. Acts 13:27. Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 13:44.
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. Acts 13:42.
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 15:21.
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. Acts 16:13.
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. Acts 17:2,3.
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. Acts 17:2,3.
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11.
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, "the sabbath day."
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of the kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day?
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. Isaiah 66:22,23.
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus 20. When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets." Matthew 5:17.
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.
Now we can all find obscure scriptures that can be used to try to dissect one commandment to be done away with. You could use the scripture about "an eye for an eye" to absolve murder as an example. But going to such great lengths to absolve ones self from ignoring the same Sabbath that Jesus kept, which was plainly stated as God's Sabbath, has quite a ring of insincerity to it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Preach should be replaced with allows and that practice was rewarded with offspring .
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Cain and his Wife
01Carey.600
And Cain went out from the face of the Lord, and dwelt as a fugitive on the earth, at the east side of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, and brought forth Henoch: and he built a city, and called the name thereof by the name of his son Henoch. [Genesis 4:16-17]Cain was the first born son of Adam and Eve, and Abel was the second. In Genesis 4 we read how Cain kills his brother and is sent east of Eden where he marries a woman and “lays” with her. Because Adam and Eve were the first humans – from whom all people come – Cain’s wife was his sister – and, consequently, all of the early Biblical relationships were incestuous (with the exception of Adam and Eve). Cain, incidentally, was the guy that caused so much trouble for the Mormon’s who believed that the cursed “Mark of Cain” meant black skin, leading them to forbid blacks from entering the Mormon priesthood (God “revealed” that they were allowed to let black skinned people in to the priesthood in 1978). You can read more about that blunder here. In the image above we see Cain killing his brother Abel.
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Abraham and Sara
Abr Sarah
Howbeit, otherwise also she is truly my sister, the daughter of my father, and not the daughter of my mother, and I took her to wife. And after God brought me out of my father’s house, I said to her: Thou shalt do me this kindness: In every place, to which we shall come, thou shalt say that I am thy brother. [Genesis 20:12-13]Abraham married his half sister Sara in Ur. The King of Gerara took her from Abraham and God sent him a dream to tell him that he would be destroyed for taking a woman who already had a husband (God approved of the marriage between the brother and sister). The King returned Sara to Abraham and they remained together as a couple until she died at the age of 127. Incidentally, Abraham died 38 years later at the ripe old age of 175.4
Nachor and Melcha
Exodus2
And Thare lived seventy years, and begot Abram, and Nachor, and Aran. And these are the generations of Thare: Thare begot Abram, Nachor, and Aran. And Aran begot Lot. And Aran died before Thare his father, in the land of his nativity in Ur of the Chaldees. And Abram and Nachor married wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai: and the name of Nachor’s wife, Melcha, the daughter of Aran, father of Melcha, and father of Jescha. [Genesis 11:26-29]This is one of those complex “generations” quotes that are found throughout the early stages of the Bible, but if you pay close attention you can see that Nachor (Abraham’s brother) married Melcha (his niece). It is phrases like those above which make it so difficult to read the Bible cover to cover. Frankly, these parts of the Bible make Proust’s “In Remembrance of Things Past” read like a Doctor Seuss book!3
Lot and his Daughters
800Px-Lot And His Daughters
And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]It doesn’t really get much more blatant than that. The two daughters had sex with their father, Lot, in order to preserve his family line. Incidentally, this all happened shortly after they had fled from Soddom and Gomorrah which was destroyed by God for its immorality – ironic?. After the events described above, Lot had no memory of it (maybe it was the liquor) and nine months later the daughters gave birth to two sons, Moab (father of the Moabites), and Ammon (father of the Ammonites).
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Amram and Jochabed
Isaiah
The sons of Merari: Moholi and Musi. These are the kindreds of Levi by their families. 20 And Amram took to wife Jochabed his aunt by the father’s side: and she bore him Aaron and Moses. And the years of Amram’s life were a hundred and thirty-seven. [Exodus 6:19-20]This is the family history of Moses – the guy who lead the Jews out of Egypt and later was given the ten commandments (which were not actually 10 commandments – more on that here). Jochabed was Moses’ Great-aunty Mom.
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Amnon and Thamar
Intro 04
And it came to pass after this, that Amnon the son of David loved the sister of Absalom the son of David, who was very beautiful, and her name was Thamar. And he was exceedingly fond of her, so that he fell sick for the love of her: for as she was a virgin, he thought it hard to do any thing dishonestly with her. [II Kings 13:1-2 ] And Thamar came to the house of Amnon her brother: but he was laid down: and she took meal and tempered it: and dissolving it in his sight she made little messes. And taking what she had boiled, she poured it out, and set it before him, but he would not eat: and Amnon said: Put out all persons from me. And when they had put all persons out, Amnon said to Thamar: Bring the mess into the chamber, that I may eat at thy hand. And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]Our final item is not just a case of incest – it is a case of incestuous rape! Amnon fell in love with his sister, Thomar, and was counseled by a crafty man to trick her in to having sex with him. He followed the bad advice and when Thomar tried to defend herself, he raped her. At least justice was ultimately done as Thomar’s other brother, Absalom, killed Amnon two years later in vengeance. Let that be a lesson to us all!
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Legend
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Legend
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You have the link to where you got that in such a short period of time?
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Hall of Famer
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Here's a little murder/ genocide for some lite reading.
Make ready to slaughter the infidel’s sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)
Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.” (Ezekiel 9:5)
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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i know why, as my post was made in jest just to screw around with 40 cents.
it's no disrespect toward you bro.
i will say this: you, YTown, and Razor are at least consistent with your beliefs.
i've said this before, one thing that is ruining the image of christians in this country is that you guys have way too many part-timers.
what i mean by that is that there's too many people that wanna be christian only when it's the popular thing to do. I will even go one further. There are many who think that being a Christian is a get out of jail free card for everything and anything they do. A Christian who has truly accepted Christ will have a visible change in his life and lifestyle. One who has truly accepted Christ will not live a life that mirrors the world, but rather one that reflects Jesus. There are many who call themselves Christian, but you would never know their faith by the way they live their lives. (and I used to fall into this very category) In today's world, divorce rates are almost identical comparing Christians to non-Christians. People who consider themselves to be Christians look at porn in similar percentages to non-Christians. I bet that there are a lot of people who consider themselves to be Christians, but who disobey God by having sex out of marriage. (I did that one too) People who call themselves Christians drink to the level of fall down drunkenness just as non-Christians do. People who call themselves Christians are involved in domestic abuse just like non-Christians are. Having Christ in your heart means that you begin to change as a result. Too many people make up a god who allows them to do all the things the world says they can and should do, rather than what Christ tells us to do. I did this. I was wrong. If we are Christians, we follow and obey Christ, we don't try to make Christ follow and obey us. I think that this is an incredibly huge problem in the world today. I also believe that Satan acts to push the world away from Christ, as much as he can. Satan puts in the ears of man, "Why should a book from 2000 years ago tell you how to live today? God knows that times and customs have changed, so that book really doesn't matter all that much.", or any number of other similar ideas that are espoused today. Small cracks become gaping holes in the faith of people as a result. People don't read their Bibles for themselves. They take snippets, individual verses, and so on, and use those as the basis of their faith, without the whole history and teachings. They twist individual verses to make the Bible say what they want it to be, as opposed to what God actually says. I know all of these things, because I ran the gamut of behaviors I wrote of in this post. I decided what God wanted me to do, instead of following what God for, and from, me. I believe that this is happening within Christianity in horrifying numbers. I fear for the eternal fate of these people. I fear the God will tell them to get out of His sight, because they do as much to damage others as Satan does. Even further, we have people today like Trump, who say that they are Christians, but when you question as to why, and how they know that they are Christians, they say "because I do good things, and help others." That is a result of being a Christian, not evidence thereof. A Christian is a Christian because he believes in, follows, and humbles himself before, Christ. We do good things because we are a Christian, but non-Christians can also do good things. The result is not evidence of the cause. So, yes, I do agree with at least some of your point. There are many people who are going to be absolutely stunned at judgment, because they have talked themselves into believing that the things they are doing are somehow OK with God. They are OK only with the god they have created though. I hope that we can reach out to these people, so that they can be saved by Christ. I often think about how many people there are in the world today, and how many are heading for condemnation simply because they won't crack their Bibles open to see if what the world tells them is true, or not. I pray that these debates inspire people who may not have done so, to open their Bibles and see what they truly say. I hope that the Lord opens the hearts of those who have not done so before, to accept Christ, truly and completely, so that they can have salvation. There are billions of people in this world today, and I would venture a guess that most are heading for condemnation. That idea makes me feel absolutely awful. I pray that God will do something that causes the hearts of people to open, so they can be saved. I especially pray this for those on this board, who may not have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Here's what I can do for you.
Does the Bible not tell us that Jesus was sent here as an example for mankind? Does it not tell us that even though we will fail, we are to try to live as Jesus lived, without sin?
Who was the Father of Jesus? Was it Joseph or God? We all know the answer to that right? So if the Bible says that Jesus kept the Sabbath of his Father as was his custom, would that not be God's Sabbath, not strictly the Jewish Sabbath?
1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, God rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3.
2. This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.
3. Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. Genesis 2:3.
5. He sanctified the seventh day. Exodus 20:11.
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3.
7. It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.
8. Jesus says it was made for man, that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew. Mark 2:27.
9. Not only is the Sabbath made for man, but Jesus said that He was Lord of the Sabbath. Mark 2:28.
10. It is a memorial of creation. Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.
11. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.
12. It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God's holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all through the patriarchal age. Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28, etc.
15. It was a part of God's law before Sinai. Exodus 16:4,23-29.
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. Exodus 20:1-17. Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. Deuteronomy 4:12,13.
18. Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger. Exodus 31:18.
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. Deuteronomy 5:22.
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. Deuteronomy 10:1-5.
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. Exodus 34:21.
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12,13.
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from the false gods. Ezekiel 20:20.
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath. Jeremiah 17:24,25.
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. Nehemiah 13:18.
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. Jeremiah 17:27.
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. Isaiah 56:6,7.
28. This is in the prophecy which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. See Isaiah 56.
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. Isaiah 56:2.
30. The Lord requires us to call it "honourable." Isaiah 58:13 Beware, you who take delight in calling it the "old Jewish Sabbath," "a yoke of bondage," etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many generations," it is to be restored in the last days. Isaiah 58:12,13.
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16; John 15:10. Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord's day. See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her. 1 Peter 3:6.
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. Mark 2:23-28.
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. Matthew 12:1-13.
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was "lawful." Matthew 12:12.
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. Matthew 24:20.
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. Luke 23:56.
41. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the sabbath day." Acts 13:14.
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "sabbath day" in A.D. 45. Acts 13:27. Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 13:44.
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. Acts 13:42.
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 15:21.
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. Acts 16:13.
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. Acts 17:2,3.
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. Acts 17:2,3.
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11.
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, "the sabbath day."
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of the kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day?
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. Isaiah 66:22,23.
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus 20. When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets." Matthew 5:17.
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.
Now we can all find obscure scriptures that can be used to try to dissect one commandment to be done away with. You could use the scripture about "an eye for an eye" to absolve murder as an example. But going to such great lengths to absolve ones self from ignoring the same Sabbath that Jesus kept, which was plainly stated as God's Sabbath, has quite a ring of insincerity to it.
A lot of points to answer. Let me answer in small chunks. First of all, where in the Bible does it show the Sabbath being commanded to be kept... a. BEFORE MOSES and b. AFTER CHRIST. Book, chapter and verse please. Let me know.
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Googled it . Particular site was called List the Verse or something close. Interested to know why the question . Does the site matter if the verses are easily searched?
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that goes against what other christians tell the masses that the bible is a perfect book then.
if you look at the many threads that deal with religion on this board, plenty of people have said the bible is God's words.
so for people who aren't christian, there's literally no other way to interpret that.
which leads to the question: If the christian God is a perfect entity, for he is all knowing, then why would he create a book that is imperfect, as it leads to the most consequential problem in todays world: interpretation?
if the christian god is perfect, then the bible should've been perfect, and not left to interpretation. The Bible is perfect. God is perfect. People are imperfect, but the accounts of those imperfect people are perfect. They are a warning to others, about how people should not act, and world within the perfect plan of God. The Old Testament, for example, is a perfect, centuries long, demonstration showing how man cannot "earn" salvation, God allowed man to try everything he wanted, precisely because God knew that man could not do the things necessary for salvation on our own. The Old Testament points forward to Jesus Christ, and demonstrates man's complete need for a Savior. The New Testament shows us the Savior, and how we are to follow Him. The book is perfect, using the imperfections of man to demonstrate and dive home the inability of imperfect man to attain salvation on his own.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So allowing something to happen is the same thing as endorsing it or preaching it?
You are like a person that wants to have his cake and eat it too. You gripe when God does not step in and punish evil, (Why does evil happens in the Bible) and you gripe when He steps in and punishes evil and call it murder )God's a big meanie)
So do you want Him to punish evil or not? Would you have liked for Him to give you instant justice for every wrong you have done? (which would be instant death).
Do you despise the longsuffering of God who does not instantly smite to the ground everyone who rebels against His Soveriegnty?
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j/c:
I really despise the extremist viewpoints that so many have. It's similar to the ignorant political discussions between liberals and conservatives. The extremists in all of these debates act like they know everything and are so freaking one-sided.
You don't know squat. You may have beliefs. You may have faith or lack faith. You may have educated yourself on why there is a God.....or why there is not a God, but none of you know for certain and it is extremely aggravating listening to all of this extremist talk.
I have tried to defend the religious guys on here before. But man, you guys are just as bad as the other side.
Like I said before, if God is real, religion is his largest adversary.
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well, i had to bro.
what kinda of hypocrite would i be posting all this stuff for being anti-religion, but then turn around and say " i didn't read it" if you guys ask if i did or not?
besides, i've told you my background as a child growing up, i didn't have much of a choice.
of course i didn't read it in one shot. i don't think too many people in history has of course. but i did read both front to back.
i'm currently working on the Veda right now(Hinduism), next is the Pali Canon( Buddhism).
There are some neat programs out there to read through the bible in a year. You don't read it front to back, you jump around, reading parts of the Bible that deal with similar topics and it helps put things in perspective. These programs also come with editorials that talk about the conditions at the time, the context, etc... By the end of the year, you have read the whole Bible, but you will get a lot more out of it than just starting at "In the beginning..." and reading from there. But I do appreciate that you have read it. To be honest, I'm not sure I've read every word of it. I've done that program I described above, but I'd start and then stop due to work demands, etc. So I can't guarantee that I've read every word of it, but I know I've read the majority of it multiple times.
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yebat' Putin
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j/c:
I really despise the extremist viewpoints that so many have. It's similar to the ignorant political discussions between liberals and conservatives. The extremists in all of these debates act like they know everything and are so freaking one-sided.
You don't know squat. You may have beliefs. You may have faith or lack faith. You may have educated yourself on why there is a God.....or why there is not a God, but none of you know for certain and it is extremely aggravating listening to all of this extremist talk.
I have tried to defend the religious guys on here before. But man, you guys are just as bad as the other side.
Like I said before, if God is real, religion is his largest adversary. AS David said..."is there not a cause?" You want us to stand around silently while people blaspheme God? Would you let someone talk about your wife or children, your Father or Mother (like they are talking about God) and keep silent. I know God doesnt need to be defended, but most of the NT is apologetic in tone, (not like "I'm sorry", but like in Apologetics). So do you fault us for also feeling it is an important part of Christianity? If I am wrong in anything I say, I will answer to God, but staying silent can be just as bad as being a little rough around the edges in what one says. I always believed if you listened to Gossip and false accusations and kept silent, it gave the appearance that you were in agreement...and I don't want to be in agreement with people who badmouth God.
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Let me see if I can find it...... http://www.preparingforeternity.com/100sabfc.htmYou see, I feel if you believe the Ten Commandments are the law of God, you either believe them and follow them in their entirety, or none of them are to be believed as the laws of God. You simply can't cherry pick. I've always believed that. And if you read the New Testament, the one thing it mentions Christ doing more than anything else, it's keeping the Sabbath. Not only that, if you look at the holidays Christians keep, most of them have heathen and pagan customs intertwined within them. From Jerimiah 10 “Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen…. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” For people interested enough to research it, most all of the customs that Christians keep in their holidays now, were customs adopted by the Catholic Church while they were expanding their powers. They made deals with the pagans to keep their customs alive by adopting their customs into Christian holidays. Now if that's something that Christians wish to follow, then that's their right to do so. But I for one will not adopt pagan symbols and call it Christian. I usually don't get into these religious discussions because it flies in the face of what most people consider Christian. They wish to try to confuse people by claiming these are strictly Jewish beliefs. But they are not. They are the teachings of God. Let's face it, God says he is a God of understanding. The Jewish calendar dates back before the time of Christ that the days have not been changed so we can easily see the days and the names of the days to not be confused. He made it easy for us to see the truth.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I am not trying to stop you. I'm not dumb enough to believe that you guys would listen to someone like me. I am simply stating my opinions:
--I do not like extremists [on either side]
--I contend that none of you KNOW the real truth [on both sides]
--Religion has hindered God more than any other entity.
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There's a reason why the Sabbath commandment is the only of the Ten commandments not repeated in the New Testament. Listen to what Rabbi Paul said about the matter.
Colossians 2: 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
I challenge you...can you find ONE place in the Bible where Gentiles (non Jews) are commanded to keep the Sabbath? And one place where the church is commanded to keep the Sabbath? Right. In fact, Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man; man was not made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath day of rest was given so man would not have to work every minute of his life, and would have a specific day where they would rest, period. When Jesus came to the earth, He proclaimed that He is Lord of the Sabbath, and He is our rest, thus we have no need for a specific Sabbath day. It is the only Commandment not reaffirmed in the New testament.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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a. BEFORE MOSES and
b. AFTER CHRIST.
Book, chapter and verse please.
Let me know. So you do not believe or follow the Ten Commandments? The FACT that Christ was an example for mankind to follow means nothing? Even though Christ said he kept the Sabbath of his Father (God) that has no bearing to you? Because you ignore the Ten Commandments and you feel you weren't "Commanded" to do so, ignoring God's Sabbath is the proper way to live a Christian life? If those are your feelings, I respectfully disagree. Christ was sent here as an example for mankind. Sorry if I'm not willing to blow off the one thing he is cited for doing more than anything else in the Bible.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Why is the fact that someone doesnt take their faith lightly make them an extremist?
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And the reason that Jesus did not emerge on the Sabbath is because He followed the Law perfectly prior to His death. Before He rose from the dead, He was living a perfect life, to be a perfect sacrifice, under the Law. Once He rose, we were under grace, not the law.
(and for those who wonder, when I say that we are not under the law, that means that we are not judged by the Law, but we are saved by God's grace. However, when we are under God's grace, we will want to obey God, but the Law is not the condemning factor it is for those not saved by faith in Christ)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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word. i guess it's just a comfort thing for me. i need to read things and formulate my own opinion on the matter. the program you're talking about though seems legit. it sounds more like just a break down, not an interpretation. the one you use, what's it called?
but yea man, its why i allow my daughters to go to church. i can't envision being that parent that goes "you need to belief in <insert whatever>". if they ask, i'll give them my opinion in the politest way possible, but for now, they like going, no matter what their reasoning for liking to go is, so it's not my place to try and persuade them to stop going.
which is why i've been put off from any religion. almost every person that talks to me about any religion, it typically goes "believe or you're gonna burn in hell".
well...ok?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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--I contend that none of you KNOW the real truth [on both sides]
Could not agree more.
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no, as interpretation should come from one's self, not from the interpretation of another. That is true, however it is important to know who certain letters were written to, and why ..... and the backgrounds of the people in the Bible. This has been an enormously important part of my journey through the Bible. Also, some times certain verses point to others in the Bible, and being able to see the connectedness of these verses is something that a scholar can point out, and help people like me, who are not Biblical scholars, understand every aspect of what is being said.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Because you speak like you KNOW everything. You don't. You have your faith and I appreciate it, but BOTH sides have an excuse for everything and pretend to KNOW the facts. Again......both sides.
It's a turn-off. And so were all the wars caused by religion. As well as the corruption, the stealing, the cover-ups, the misuse of power, the bias and prejudice of religion, etc.
In many respects, religion is God's enemy.
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Who says I ignore the Ten Commandments? And as far as Christ...He kept the entire Law. Does that mean I have to keep the entire Law to be a Christian? I need to keep the dietary laws, the sacrificial laws, the clothing laws,etc. Listen to what Paul said...
Galatians 4: Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
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Googled it . Particular site was called List the Verse or something close. Interested to know why the question . Does the site matter if the verses are easily searched?
Well, I didn't ask you the question, first of all. I replied to pit and his post/list. Secondly, with no link, it appears pit thought of all of this himself. Thirdly, did he, or you for that matter, delve deeper into the scripture? To get a better understanding? Here's where I'm going. We can read that Cain killed Abel. Left at that, we can assume murder is ok? We can read that Christians shouldn't eat shellfish. Left at that, are we to assume that when I eat shrimp I'm not being a Christian? If one takes a single verse out of the Bible, one can justify about anything. Do I have all the answers? That's a point blank "NOPE". Is there a reason I read the Bible each and every morning? Yup. Unlike swish, I haven't read the bible front to back. I was just curious, towards pit, because a google search will tell me anything I want to know and support - Bible related and otherwise. It's easy to find negative. Links are everywhere. It's harder to find personal truth. And trust me bud, I'm not there yet.
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Yeah and I'm still trying to do the math of how you are crucified on a Friday afternoon, resurrected on Sunday morning and that adds up to three days and three nights. Sounds like fuzzy math to me. lol
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Wow, if you think I think I know everything, you don't know what I know. LOL!!!
So are you suggesting that I take what I have learned from the Bible and treat it like it's something I should stand in doubt of? As in, "hey, the Bible says this, but I don't really know if it's true or not".
If I don't do that, I am an extremist?
Hebrews 11 defines faith as assurance and confidence. So if having faith makes me an extremist, I guess I'm guilty as charged.
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Obviously you are confused about the difference in God's law and the Mosaic laws. But I digress.
Animal sacrifice was Mosaic law.
So let me get this straight, you care about nine out of the Ten commandments? Or is there another one you have an excuse to ignore?
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The difference is Arch, that I knew and believed all of those points before hand. I studied the Bible in depth for many years. I studied how the holidays that Christians keep today were filled with pagan symbols adopted by the Catholic Church yet Christians blindly follow those pagan customs still today.
The link simply helped me show those points about the Sabbath in a quick and concise way without me having to spend hours looking up each individual point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Wound a little tight ain"t ya ?
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Wound a little tight ain"t ya ? I don't think so. I guess I'm not sure what you mean. Really, have I tried to force my faith on anyone? I don't recall doing that. If I did, I apologize.
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j/c:
I really despise the extremist viewpoints that so many have. It's similar to the ignorant political discussions between liberals and conservatives. The extremists in all of these debates act like they know everything and are so freaking one-sided.
You don't know squat. You may have beliefs. You may have faith or lack faith. You may have educated yourself on why there is a God.....or why there is not a God, but none of you know for certain and it is extremely aggravating listening to all of this extremist talk.
I have tried to defend the religious guys on here before. But man, you guys are just as bad as the other side.
Like I said before, if God is real, religion is his largest adversary. Respectfully sir, I'd have to say that this has been one of the most civil back & forths I've seen on the subject since I joined the old board back in '08. And you don't have to listen to it. Just click on to something else if This upsets you that much.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Obviously you are confused about the difference in God's law and the Mosaic laws. But I digress.
Animal sacrifice was Mosaic law.
So let me get this straight, you care about nine out of the Ten commandments? Or is there another one you have an excuse to ignore? The commandments that Jesus gave are infinitely higher than the commandments that Moses gave. Moses said "do not commit adultery" Jesus said "if you look and lust, you've already committed it. Moses said "do not murder", Jesus said do not be angry at your brother without a cause, do not speak uncharitably of your brother (Raca), etc. Nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the New Testament, and the Sabbath is repeated as entering God's rest in Christ. So yes, the Gentiles and the church were commanded to keep nine of the ten commandments and much more, but NOWHERE in the Bible were Gentiles or the church commanded to keep a Saturday Sabbath. I rest on Saturday and spend time meditating on God, but it is not because I think that I will be cast into Gehenna if I don't. I also keep the other commandments out of love for God and neighbor, not out of legalistic duty. Isnt that what Jesus taught? The Kingdom of God is not in keeping external commandments, but the attitude of heart that lies behind them? I mean, I can say I never killed anyone and never committed adultery, or never worshipped an idol, but be an adulterer, a murderer, and an idolater at heart. Jesus took the emphasis away from external commands and put it on inward righteousness, which if a man has, he will fulfill the whole Law. Hear what Jesus says...Pay particular attention to verse 4,5, and ESPECIALLY 7 Matthew 12- At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
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the program you're talking about though seems legit. it sounds more like just a break down, not an interpretation. the one you use, what's it called? A quick search and I couldn't find the exact one I used but this one looks to be very close... I think mine was based on that same Scottish ministers work so they are probably pretty close. ESV i can't envision being that parent that goes "you need to belief in <insert whatever>". if they ask, i'll give them my opinion in the politest way possible, but for now, they like going, no matter what their reasoning for liking to go is, so it's not my place to try and persuade them to stop going. As a Christian, I have definitely steered my kids in that direction but I do my best to not be overbearing about it. I try my best to live it... if they want to sleep in one Sunday and not go.. that's cool. Nothing will turn your kids against something faster than you making a horrible experience... which is why i've been put off from any religion. almost every person that talks to me about any religion, it typically goes "believe or you're gonna burn in hell".
Not my job to determine whether you will go to Heaven or not. Not my job to shame you or try to guilt you into going to Church. Not my job to tell you that all of the good people are at church and all of the evil people aren't at church. Not my job to tell you the church is perfect or that professing belief and going to church will make all of your problems go away. It is my job to tell you that I love you and that I would fight for you and that I would not let you go hungry as long as I have food in my house.
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I studied how the holidays that Christians keep today were filled with pagan symbols adopted by the Catholic Church yet Christians blindly follow those pagan customs still today.
. I often wonder why more modern Christians don't find this more curious.
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I studied how the holidays that Christians keep today were filled with pagan symbols adopted by the Catholic Church yet Christians blindly follow those pagan customs still today.
. I often wonder why more modern Christians don't find this more curious. christmas!!!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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I want to answer the question of the Sabbath.
The word that Sabbath comes from made no distinction between a once a week day of rest, and the rest that Israel was to enter into in the promised land. Those who read these letters knew that this was the accepted truth of the word. So, what does the Bible say about the Sabbath?
Hebrews 4:9-11 says;
9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
Man is to stop his efforts to gain salvation through his own deeds and actions, and rest in God. In other words, the believer's rest is from trying to gain salvation through his own actions. God wants us to accept His rest, and not follow the example of Israel as they wandered, for decades, in the wilderness, because of their lack of faith. Our Sabbath rest is the same as Israel was offered in the promised land, if they would only accept it. It is the same with the believer. Accept Christ, and stop trying to do things to "earn" salvation. (This is from the NIV study Bible, and is an example of why I feel that it is important to have the background from Biblical scholars, who provide background, customs, and specific definitions of words used in the Bible. Very often, a single word in the Bible is translated to a reasonable approximation, but the single word chosen does not cover all aspects of what the writer was communicating.
Some verses are really easy to understand, but others really depend upon knowing the background and the audience to whom the writer is writing, along with the various definitions words can have. This verse is such an example.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,073
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,073 |
You have pointed out aptly how special circumstances like preparing food or helping in emergency situations are fine to do on the Sabbath. Not that it was done away with.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
I studied how the holidays that Christians keep today were filled with pagan symbols adopted by the Catholic Church yet Christians blindly follow those pagan customs still today.
. I often wonder why more modern Christians don't find this more curious. It's not an issue, because worship of a pagan deity is not involved. For example, some people think Jeremiah 10 is talking about a Christmas tree, which is LAUGHABLE. First of all, Jeremiah is not talking about a Christmas Tree, and secondly a Christmas Tree is not an idol, because you do not bow down, fear it, or worship it. It's these kind of arguments that people think are good cannon fodder, but they carry the weight of a feather pillow or a marshmallow.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 02/16/16 05:21 PM.
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