DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft OLB/3-4 DEs

For 3-4 OLB, Bosa is the top rated guy, assuming he can make the transition from a 4-3 DE. I'm probably forgetting someone, but Noah Spence and Kevin Dodd are probably the next rated guys. Dodd is intriguing if he lasts to 32. Dodd's teammate Shaw Lawson, as well as Scooby Wright are guys I'd consider in the 3rd if they're still around.

For 3-4 DE, the guy I'd consider at #2 is Deforest Buckner, though I think it is a little bit of a stretch. If we could trade down a few spots, I'd definitely be interested. I think he's a slight improvements of his former teammate, Aric Armstead. His run D is an imrovement over Armstead. He can also move inside if we want to move to a 4-3. I think there's a dropoff after Buckner.

Not trying to be a homer, but I'm interested to see if Adolphus Washington is drafted as a 4-3DT, or a 3-4 DE. Having watched him quite a bit, I think he could be a good 3-4 DE. I'm not sure where he'll be drafted. I'd consider him at 32, but that feels a little early.

That's about all I have. I look forward to reading other folks' thoughts on these positions.

Why can't Bosa be a 3-4 DE? Looking at Denver's two DE Jackson and Wolf. How much different is Bosa? He may need to add 10 or 15 lbs.

I think quickness from your front seven is very effective. If I'm not mistaken, Wade Phillips has always played with a light front three.

Having athletic lineman, as oppose to heaver, allows you to drop DL into coverage disguising blitzes.

I disagree our LBs are as much of a need as QB. I think last year O'Neil didn't take advantage of their skill set. I think Browns were to predictable. Mingo is not the type to beat you physically. He can beat you with speed. Opposite is true with Kruger. Why not switch those two around more. Use speed from the DL moving those guys around can be equally as effective.

What hurt Browns defense most is lack of quality depth in the secondary. Browns had nothing picking up slack once Haden was out. O'Neil configured nothing helping the secondary. I thought playing more zone with disguise blitzes could ease pressure. Instead they forged ahead with same scheme.

Bosa is a 3-4 DE. He's about the same size as McGinnest.

Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith are 3-4 ILB's

Darron Lee is maybe a nickle LB or safety in a 3-4. He is a lot lighter than the listed 235.

tab, I don't think the site you used was very good. They had some guys out of position. Here are some guys that I know about.

--Bosa: He's interesting because he is not either a classic 3-4 or 4-3 guy. I think he needs to play in an odd-man front and you need to get creative w/him. His explosion is awesome and he is the type that can impact games.

--Noah Spence: I think he is the best pass rusher in the draft. Had some drug issues and ended up at E. Kentucky. Great explosion. Stays low. Lives in the backfield. Passed multiple drug tests this year. Can play w/hand on the ground or upright. I like that flexibility.

--Shaq Lawson: He's a DE. Better suited to the 4-3, but I think those qualifications are overstated. He's pretty big, has strong hands, very disciplined for a Clemson player, has many moves, pretty quick, plays w/good balance, excellent agility. Doesn't have a ton of experience and is a bit raw, but this guy should be gone by the middle of round one.

--Kevin Dodd: Another Clemson guy. Not a deep resume, but he was explosive and dominated in National Championship game. Long and is explosive coming out of his stance. I think he might be older than the other guys, but not sure about that.

--Emmanuel Ogbah: Another DE. Big and very strong. Not as explosive as other guys, but he is productive because of his brute strength and consistent effort. Very productive at Oklahoma St.

--Leonard Floyd: OLBer from Georgia. Very fast and athletic. Not strong enough. Similar to Mingo in those ways.

--Jordan Jenkins: Also from Georgia. Versatile enough to play DE or OLBer--in certain alignments. Gets into the backfield quickly. Excellent motor. Can rush the passer and drop into coverage. Not very good at shedding blocks once he is engaged. Can be totally removed from play by bigger blockers if he doesn't beat them initially. Might be available in round 3. Could be a 2nd round pick.

--Carl Nassib: Played DE at Penn St, but will probably be best suited to a 3-4 OLBer. Tall.....almost 6'7". He had 15.5 sacks last year. Former walk-on. Didn't do much before last season. Many like his upside. He's a guy that can beat you quick, but if he is engaged right away, he is pretty bad and I saw him on the ground quite a bit. You might be able to get this guy in round 3 and use him as a situational pass rusher.

Hope that helps, tab. Also, I would like to hear from others about the players I listed regarding whether you agree, disagree, or if you just have something to add. And let us know if you have any other guys that interest you.

Vers, first, very good assessment! Thanks. Second, it simply could be assumed, you didn't mentioned anything with regards to "tackling".

Interesting take regarding Bosa. My biggest concern is Bosa's mental toughness. I like his nastiness, but he struggles controlling it. You see it in Suh, but Bosa is no Suh.

Yeah my opinions are similar to Vers on these guys. Just to build on that a little, I don't think Floyd is worth a top 50 pick, and most people have him in the top 20-25... While I think he's one of the few candidates suitable for the position in this draft, I wouldn't want to burn that high of a pick (our 1 or 2) on him.

For me, the order of who I'd like us to be looking at: (for OLB)
1) Noah Spence (top 10). But I think it would be very hard for us to take a guy in the top 10 with a serious drug history in the shadow of Manziel's issues, Gordon just coming back from a year break, and Bryant possibly going to jail for 10 years. He is clearly the best OLB pass rusher in this draft.

2) Carl Nassib (2nd round, 3rd if we're lucky). Some people have him rated significantly lower but I don't see it. A player that long and productive with that relentless play style is a tough commodity to come by. Put him at SAM and watch him work.

3) Victor Ochi, Stony Brook (3rd rd to 3rd day). Ochi tied for the FCS lead in sacks and while I've never seen him play for his college, he was unblockable at the shrine game. He was winning with speed and winning with power and was clearly the best player on the field. Most have him rated lower, but the best player at the shrine game tends to go in the third. He's a weak side guy like Spence.

4) Alex McCalister, Florida (5th round+). This is a guy with an injury history I checked out on a whim on draft breakdown and, while its clear he needs to get stronger to be a full time player, he has a rare ability to dip and get under a tackle on an edge rush. He'd probably have to start as a situational pass rusher, which is fine because we have Orchard who IMO improved a lot against the run last season.

5) Tyrone Holmes, Montana (5th round+). Holmes is big and strong with long arms and did a great job disrupting Carson Wentz and the NDSU offense in Montanas season opening win over the Bison. He co-led the FCS in sacks with Ochi, and while he is nowhere near the athlete that Ochi is, he is very strong and plays to the whistle. He also showed very good disruption skills in the run game at the Shrine. He is also a SAM like Nassib.

Thanks for the additions, steve. Good stuff.

tab, I haven't watched any videos on Fackrell yet. I read some scouting reports which sounded pretty good and it sounds like he did well at the Shrine game. I think I'll research him.

Frackwell is an interesting prospect. He seems to have great football instincts and outstanding speed for his size. Being able to drop a 6' 6" LB into coverage is a plus and he looks comfortable doing it.

He lacks strength and the explosion that you were talking about though. He needs to put a little bit of meat on his bones and it's always a gamble when you draft a guy hoping that he'll get stronger. I am always partial to the guys that are football magnets and would take the risk in the top of the 4th round if he's there and Ochi was gone. I think the worst thing that happens is that you kick him inside if he doesn't get the strength to be an edge rusher. His ball hawking skills and coverage ability would fit fine on the inside.

I like Leonard and Perry. I also want to see the drills and compare with others. If we get this right, we get tougher to live with immediately IMO. I think it will be a replacement for Mingo.

I'm kind of cooling on Bosa. I just don't think he's the best fit for us. His game kind of reminds me of Michael Bennett from the Seahawks. I think he would be best suited as a 4-3 SSDE who can kick down inside in some passing situations.

Fackrell is intriguing to me. He was only a year removed from an ACL, and I would think should be back to fully healthy this coming season. I was researching him and saw that he was #18 on Kipers Big Board before the injury 2 years ago link . He looks like a pretty big guy on the field, but moves quite well. He appears to have nice length and mixes up his pass rush pretty well. I've seen him win inside, outside, and with power. He was around the ball a lot. He can drop into zone pretty well, but he's not a guy you want covering the slot in man.

I'll have to watch more of Nassib. I'd heard he was an effort guy as a 4-3 end and didn't think he'd have the athleticism to transition to the 3-4 OLB role.

I liked Correa in the BYU tape. He seemed explosive, agile, and unlike Mingo didn't shy away from contact. He seemed more hesitant in the NIU game. I think some of it was scheme with the Huskies running some read option concepts. Hopefully, draftbreakdown will put some more games up, so I can get a better feel.

I also want to get a better look at Dadi Nicolas. His measurements are pretty crazy. 35 1/8" Arms, 10 1/2" Hands, Wingspan over 80". Projected 40 high 4.4s-4.6s. He was playing some 3-tech at 6'3" 235. It sounds like he projects better at OLB than I remember him being against Ohio State as a down lineman. I'll need to look at the cut-ups, though.

I think the Clemson guys and Ogbah are all 4-3 ends.

Floyd=Mingo-

I watch Calhoun and feel like I should like him, but I'm just not that high on him. I think it might be because I remember highlights from earlier in his career, and he looked better then than he does now.

I want to "fall in love" with Spence, but the red flags are tough to ignore. I'm not sure if he'll ever excel against the run, but his explosion and speed are impressive.

I'm looking forward to seeing how things shake out in this group at the combine.

Chris Jones of Mississippi state is very intriguing. Mississippi State actually has a lot of intriguing NFL prospects.

I see how you have a lot of questions about the defensive guys, but you don't have questions about a qb at number 2?

Interesting...

Yep. Chris Jones is a baller. Personally, I have thought he goes in the second round. PFF actually has him rated as the 8th overall prospect (list came out yesterday)

No, I do have questions. I've just been digging into them more with the QBS in general, and Wentz in particular.

That's the nature of the top of the Draft to me. You have to look at the positions with the most impact first. If there's a guy that you think could be a franchise QB, how do you not try to unearth every speck of information? One difficulty in the Draft to me is finding the right balance between what a player is now, what he can be, and the probability of that player reaching that potential.

I don't think there is a guy that fits that description and I think that a lot of posters are inventing that guy because they are so desperate to find that guy.

You don't think there is a guy that could be? I understand not thinking these guys are there and have already arrived so to speak, but to flat out say none of them have the potential to become one? I'm not seeing that.

I don't see a sure fire franchise OLB in this Draft either. Potential-sure, but Spence has more red flags off the field and holes in his game on it than I'm completely comfortable with. We had an atrocious run D, I don't see Spence helping that.

What you are seeing as desperation, I'm seeing as due diligence.

We see things very differently.

It would appear so. At least we're talking football, and putting observations to consider out there.

I am also a Nassib fan. I can't understand why he is getting overlooked.

I think you may be thinking of someone else...

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/011416aaa.html

Nassib Selected as CBS Sports Defensive Player of the Year

Senior defensive end led the country in sacks and forced fumbles

Jan. 14, 2016
UNIVERSITY PARK, PA. - Defensive end Carl Nassib (West Chester, Pa.) added another honor to his illustrious senior season as he was selected as the CBS Sports National Defensive Player of the Year. The senior defensive end filled his trophy case this year after leading the NCAA in sacks (15.5) and forced fumbles (6).

Nassib became the 13th unanimous consensus All-American in program history and the 41st overall after a suburb (sic) senior campaign. He was also the winner of the the 46th Rotary Lombardi Award for the nation's top lineman (offense or defense) or linebacker, the 14th Ted Hendricks Award for the nation's top defensive end and the Lott IMPACT Trophy for the top defensive player that represent the qualities embodied by Hall of Famer Ronnie Lott -- Integrity, Maturity, Performance, Academics, Community and Tenacity.

In a breakout season, Nassib has collected first team All-America honors from the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA), AutoNation Football Writers Association of America (FWAA), Walter Camp, Associated Press, Sporting News, ESPN.com, SI.com, CBS Sports and Athlon Sports. He also claimed USA Today second team accolades.

He was a finalist for the Burlsworth Trophy (top player that started his career as a walk-on), the Nagurski Trophy (nation's top defensive player) and Bednarik Award (nation's top defensive player).

The West Chester, Pennsylvania native was picked as the Big Ten's Nagurski-Woodson Defensive Player of the Year and earned first team All-Big Ten honors from both the coaches and media. He is the sixth Nittany Lion to take home Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year accolades since 1998. He joins LaVar Arrington (1998), Courtney Brown (1999), Michael Haynes (2002), Jared Odrick (2009) and Devon Still (2011) on the list of Penn State honorees.

Despite playing only four snaps in the last two regular-season games due to injury, Nassib led FBS in sacks (15.5) and forced fumbles (6) and was 11th in FBS and second in the Big Ten in tackles for loss (19.5). He is the first Nittany Lion to lead the country in a statistical category since Larry Johnson's 2002 rushing title. With one sack at Northwestern, Nassib broke the Penn State single-season sacks record by upping his total to 15.5. He surpasses the mark of 15 sacks set by Larry Kubin (1979) and Michael Haynes (2002).

Additionally, Nassib's six forced fumbles this season are the most by a Penn State player since Haynes had a school-record seven in the 2002. Nassib is the first Penn State player to force two fumbles in two games in a season since Maurice Evans did it in 2007. Evans had two forced fumbles against Indiana and two forced fumbles against Texas A&M in the Alamo Bowl. Nassib was a midseason All-America choice by SI.com, ESPN.com, USAToday.com and CBS Sports.

Penn State season ticket renewals and Nittany Lion Club membership renewals also are underway for the 2016 campaign, which includes five Big Ten home games for the first time. The ticket invoice and Nittany Lion Club renewal deadline is Feb. 1, 2016. There will not be any increase in the price of Penn State football season tickets or Nittany Lion Club donation levels for next season. For information on joining the Nittany Lion Club and purchasing new 2016 season tickets, as well as club seating in Beaver Stadium, fans can visit PSUnrivaled.com, call 1-800-NITTANY weekdays from 8 a.m.-5 p.m. or visit the Bryce Jordan Center ticket office weekdays from 10 a.m-6 p.m.

I think you are mistaken. Did you read my analysis of him earlier?

Nassib- Not that impressed. Has deceptive quickness, and long arms but beyond that not much stood out. I think he's more quick on the snap than explosive. He primarily played over the opposing teams RT. I saw other teams have an RB or TE single block him fairly frequently. I actually think his DT teammates stood out to me more. They did a good job collapsing the pocket and Nassib got the clean up sacks when the QB backed into him. It also looked like sometimes the opposing team didn't respect him and straight out ignored him giving him free shots. I'm not sure how well his skill set translates to the NFL.

I did only watch the 2 games on draftbreakdown.

Zettel and Johnson are good players, too. Nassib was a monster against Temple. I disagree, I think Nassib showed a lot in that Ohio State game. And in the Maryland game you watched, didn't he force fumbles on sacks on back-to-back plays? What are you hoping for from a guy? Check out the other edge rushers in the class, what they did against what competition and I think you may reset your level of expectation of what is a good pass rusher.

and while you're on, check out Alex McCalister's cut-ups. It's like he phases into another dimension when he dips through those OTs, lol.

Buffalo and OSU were the games on draftbreakdown. I didn't see him against Maryland. Nassib reminds me of Vernon Gholston. Great college production, doesn't project to the next level the best.

I'm not that high on any of the pass rushers in this class. Spence could be a nice pass rush specialist, but his run D won't help us and his red flags are serious.

I think I like Fackrell the best for the 3-4 OLBs. In the late 2nd or 3rd. Some of the guys are better 4-3 fits.

Haven't spent much time on McAlister. He has a lot of red flags.

tab, I was referring to your comment about the high expectations. The guy was a freaking walk-on!!!

I think perhaps you read something about his brother and got confused about the expectations thing. It's okay......we all make mistakes.

J/c...

Started watching Ole Miss / Florida last night and it just re-emphasized how good that shoulder dip move that McCalister has. Seems like it works every damn rush. Florida only seemed to use him on 3rd and 10+ because he's undersized as a DE, but could work well as an OLB.

Bosa would be fine at DE in either a 3-4 or a 4-3. No reason to try to force him in to another position. If we would happen to draft him then plug him in at DE and be done with it. He'll be fine. Bruce Smith was the best 3-4 DE I ever saw and he played at 265-270. Weight doesn't matter. MUSCLE matters. I'd much rather having a ripped 270 pound DE over a fat slob that's 340.

Vernon Butler's from Louisiana Tech rather than LSU, but I like him, too. I'd snap him up if he's there at our 2nd pick. I'm not sure he makes it past Detroit at 16, though. If Megatron retires and Treadwell is still there, then it gets interesting.

I think Fackrell could be there in the 3rd. I'm not sure how great he'll test in shorts. I like him in the 3rd and you could convince me to trade back into the 2nd for him if we retain our high 4th for a receiver like Rashard Higgins.

I kind of hope Nassib blows up at the combine and someone else drafts him high. I think his production is a product of the players around him more than/as much as his talent.

"Bosa, I don't think can play OLB and maybe wasted there for a couple of years. Unfortunately he would have to put on some bulk to be a 3/4 DE. Love his explosion but at #2 he is too much of a tweener investment of that magnitude. And I truly think we will pick a QB at #2."

Eo explain why you think Bosa at 6'6" 275 pounds would have to add "bulk" to play end in a 3-4? JJ Watt is 6'6" 285 or so... This idea that a 3-4 DE needs to be well over 300 and should just stand around watching everyone else make plays is stupid. No reason in the world a 6'6" 275 pound ATHLETE can't play DE. Bruce Smith was 6'4 and 265. Did he need to add bulk? Would he have played better at 300+? I don't think so.