DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Personal thoughts from a former Democrat

I look back on my political development through my life and I wonder how many of my friends can support the Democrat party any longer. When I was younger, my friends and I opposed intervention into our lives. We rebelled against conformity and authority. As a former Hillary Clinton supporter, I find it difficult to support any Democrat politician any longer. I have found that the political spectrum has shifted in America. Where I once considered myself progressive and liberal on the political spectrum. I find now that progressive and liberal do not mean what I once felt they meant.

For example, I have always advocated for allowing people to express themselves as they see fit. You only live life once. As long as you do not do harm, my political philosophy was live and let live. Now I find that the Democrat party, seen as the liberal and progressive political party in the USA, is not for individual expression. The opposite has come to be true of the Democrat party. Many Democrat politicians advocate government stifling of freedom of expression through hate speech legislation, offensive language laws, inciting hatred against people who have opposing views. It is antithetical to what progressive and liberal means to me. I am offended that people feel that I have to support restrictions on speech in order to be for freedom of speech. What is wrong with this country's political system?

Private property rights? Do we have them any longer? If you advocate higher taxes in order to redistribute resources to those who have less, you cannot also believe in private property rights. I work hard for what I have. I planned my life according to my own priorities. I find the inheritance tax offensive and oppressive. Why can I not leave unto my own family the fruits of my labor? It makes me sad to hear fellow Democrats speak as if he results of my hard work is not mine to have. For someone who has been in academia and social services most of my life, I see how hands outs have not resulted in higher social status for those who get them. The argument that many have made towards me that I have a privilege because of my race diminishes my accomplishments based on my abilities and my hard work. I find this to be antithetical to progressive values of live and let live.

My religious beliefs are my own. I do not have to share them or explain them to anyone in order to participate in the political process in the USA. Why would someone now claim that if I based my opinions on my religious beliefs some how violates their rights? To try to silence religious speech in the USA is antithetical to being a progressive American.

You know, you can say about the same things about the Republican party.

Different reasons, but bottom line all you need to do is look at the definition of politician:


noun
1.
a person who is active in party politics.
2.
a seeker or holder of public office, who is more concerned about winning favor or retaining power than about maintaining principles.
3.
a person who holds a political office.
4.
a person skilled in political government or administration; statesman or stateswoman.
5.
an expert in politics or political government.
6.
a person who seeks to gain power or advancement within an organization in ways that are generally disapproved.

1,3,4 and 5 aren't anything to worry about. 2 and 6 make me wonder how anyone could trust any of them.

How could the republicans not find a way to dumb trump. He's making the entire process a laughing stock.

Hillary, how in the hell can it be that she's not in jail?

No sir, party loyalty for me went out the window years ago.. Now I pick a candidate, support them for the policies they wish to adhere to and I do so regardless of party.

slow clapping sound...

Right, but don't go crying about "free speech" when people want equitable and humane treatment. We've come many years since the Civil Rights Act, and we still see pockets of individuals stuck living in Jim Crow era. These individuals would pounce on the opportunity, as we've already seen, to treat individuals as subhuman.



See above response.



Both sides get bought off by large corporate conglomerates, through SuperPACs, to push economic policy that encourages plutocratic rule in our country. The social issues of both parties placate the base, and end up distracting us from the awful money game that politics has become.



There's truth some have it easier off due to where they're born into. We can't deny that.

However, we need to find a way to reframe this narrative. We need to value altruism over selfish desires. But, that brings in tons of different ethical arguments, and we can't tell people what they should be thinking.

It's a fine line to walk, Voleur. We face a reality where the majority of the wealth in this country remains controlled by a select few. Them getting to that point isn't an issue, but the question comes down to, to paraphrase Kennedy, "what can you do for your country?" How can you best give back to help others in this nation realize their dreams.

Show me a young man who is not a Liberal and I will show you a man who has no heart.

Show me an older man who is not a Conservative and I will show you a man who has no brains.

Oh please...Trump shows why the process maybe can work...If he wasnt having the success he is...laughing stock ok I guess. Dump him...WTF do you think the GOPe is trying to do??? and the more they are trying the more popular he seems to be becoming.

If Bill Clinton wasnt a damn embarassment having a woman give oral under the desk in the white house...and I voted for this guy....and sticking cigars in a womans umm..yeah...or what George Bush done when he was young...or the current potus who wrote in his books he used cocaine and marijuana hung out with a freaking Bill Ayers...

Well excuse me Daman...your compass may be a touch off...give me the guy who doesnt drink, smoke..or get high is successful and done stuff in the entertainment world that may not be presidential to you..but you say your sick of the same type of candidates and here is someone different knocking the crap out of the "system" but you say dump him for more of the same.

Yeah ok...I'll follow you for sure.

Good post Voluer

I believe the majority of the wealth in the country becomes more and more controlled by fewer and fewer even though government gets more and more involved in the economy of the people. Perhaps one leads to the other. More government involvement into your life leads to the wealth of the nation becoming controlled more and more by those who can buy access to the government. The solution for me would be a liberal one, where the government recedes from its intervention into the economy and does not act in order to skew things in the favor of the big companies. I feel that the current Progressive/liberal politicians are more crony capitalists who benefit from influence peddling more than advocating for the individual.

Uh-oh cant wait to see the response to that...

Keep posting Voleur I enjoy reading your thoughts.

All it shows is that we have some people out there that have their collective heads in a dark place.

Same with Hillary.

Give me a candidate I can get behind.. Maybe it's Rubio or Kasich. Dunno, time will tell. But it WILL NOT BE TRUMP or HILLARY.

By the way, I wasn't speaking of Bill Clinton, his time is up.

Just become a libertarian. You can be socially progressive and fiscally conservative.

I assure u I'm in no dark place nor my head...The point about Bill is valid...Trump hasnt been caught doing that kind of crap that I'm aware of....and like I said...you dont like the system candidates but Rubio and Kasich are system candidates...pick who you want...never said different.

I just find some of what you say as funny is all Daman.

that's your right as an american to feel however it is you feel. just like it's my right as an american to completely disagree with just about everything you just finished saying.

Expression and being a bigot and hateful is completely different things. Do some liberals take the political correctness waaaayyy too far? absolutely, but republicans aren't any better, and have no business trying to sell somebody that load of garbage.

I said it before on another thread, people are always talking about PC this, PC that, i hate political correctness.

but then you'll see them in the SB thread crying about beyonce's political statement during the halftime show.

oh, so NOW being PC is acceptable, right? i found out very quick that being PC is whatever people want it to be. Republicans are full of it right along with democrats, because if they were trying against being PC, that wouldn't get their panties in a wad whenever somebody started trashing their precious bible.

people only hate political correctness when it's an opinion they agree with. when it's something they are against, they are just as intolerant as anybody else.

you have a right to say whatever you want, for the most part. but the problem is that people like you will get mad when the backlash comes.

you're argument typically goes like this "i should have the right to say whatever it is i want, but people shouldn't have the right to be offended"

sounds to me like you are for being PC, as you don't understand why bigoted ass comments would get some blow back.

so- and i don't wanna be PC when i say this- your position on that with regards to not being a democrat is a load of crap, respectfully, of course.

that whoever tried to somehow correlate private property rights and race related privilege is dumb on their part. but it's not many, it's some.

also, your inheritance stance is a load of crap as well.

the federal government has no inheritance tax. only 8 states have an inheritance tax, which means that the governor and it's legislators can remove that tax, but let's go down the list of states that have that.

Indiana - republican governor.
Iowa- republican governor.
Maryland - republican governor.
Kentucky - Republican governor.
New Jersey - republican governor.
Pennsylvania - Democratic Governor.
Tennessee - Republican Governor.
Nebraska - republican governor.

so 7 out of the 8 states that have the inheritance tax aren't even in the political party you're complaining about.

then, this little bit:

Depending on your relationship to the decedent, you may receive an exemption or reduction in the amount of inheritance tax you must pay. For example, most states exempt a spouse from the tax when they inherit the property from another spouse.

Children and other dependents may qualify for the same exemption, though in some cases, only a portion of the inherited property may qualify. Generally, the higher rates of tax will be paid by those who inherit property from a decedent with whom they have no familial relationship.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Taxes-101/What-are-Inheritance-Taxes-/INF14800.html

so there's a chance you might not even have to pay it AT ALL, and even then, very few people have to pay the full taxed amount.

The tax rates on inheritances can be as low as 1 percent or as high as 20 percent of the value of property and cash you inherit

you're complaining about what, exactly?

so what else? do you not like paying property tax or something? what is it? because based off the information i just read and provided, your argument holds virtually no water.

right now, you're starting to remind me of those Bundy guys. you hate PC right? Well i'm letting you have it.

your religious beliefs are absolutely your own. you can believe in whatever the hell you choose to believe in, that's your right as an american.

however, in your ridiculous case to trash the democratic party, your argument is once again, full of crap. you don't violate anybody's rights when you state an opinion. however, you do violate someone else's rights when you make said opinion into public policy. there's a clear difference.

when you use religious based points as reasoning for laws in a country that doesn't based the constitution off of religion, that's violating somebody else's rights.

it's why politicians finds legal aways around it, because the moment somebody starts their reasoning for a law with "God says..." or "the bible says....", then it will never get passed. that's why all the republicans have to defund planned parenthood. because outright shutting then down is illegal. they gotta work around it.

and silence religious speech? 70 percent of the country identifies as christian, with another percentage of people with other religious beliefs.

we aren't shutting you down for your religious belief's, but we are trying to get you to stop inserting your religious belief's into other people's lifestyle.

you can't go around saying to stop violating religious people's rights, then turn a blind eye on religious people violating other's rights. who right's do gay people getting married violate? so why are people trying to make religious laws to keep tax paying citizens from loving who they love?

that's a double standard. which is why i said your entire argument is full of crap.

i said this a thousand times on this board, there is PLENTY to absolutely trash the crap out of the democratic party.

but none of your points is one of them. i'm simply mind blown as to how you completely whiffed on posting ANY of those points in your initial post.

if you're joining the other team, or staying more independent. more power to you. but your reasons as to why simply don't hold any weight, as they are nothing more than ramblings when your post is actually broken down.

try that for PC.

The only thing that prevents me from completely giving up on the republican party is the democratic party.

Maybe it's just the view from my vantage point, but at least many republicans I know are coming to grips with the fact that their party is in bad shape... most democrats I know seem to be clinging to this notion that their party is fighting the good fight...

Trump has both cheated on his spouse(s) and bragged about sleeping with married women.

Are you honestly trying to make a morality argument for Donald Trump? Seriously? As I've said, there's no intelligent argument in favor of Trump, so you've got to grab straws somewhere, but morality? Seriously?

Link?

In The Art of the Deal, Trump boasted about bedding other men’s wives.
“If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed best-seller,” he wrote

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/27/christians-cringe-at-donald-trump-s-sexy-past.html

"If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed bestseller. I have too much respect for women in general, but if I did write about my love life, the world would take serious notice. Beautiful, famous, successful, married - I've had them all, secretly, the world's biggest names" - Donald Trump, "The Art of The Comeback"

And he quite famously cheated on his first wife, Ivana, with his soon-to-be second wife, Marla Maples.

Trump is what he is 40.. you need to either accept that and support him any way or find a different candidate to support.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. If we end up getting Trump and Hillary as our candidates, it might be the best year yet for a third party to come in and actually steal an election.

Yea, I read it, he is a bad boy.

Because conservatives are so well known for their brains! What a load of crapola.

The best argument for Trump is that he is the best politician out of anyone in the field on the Republicans side, and in fact, on either side. He keeps his message very simple, so that anyone can understand it, and he does not get caught up in throwing out so many details that peoples eyes gloss over.

He has tapped into anger, and while I do not believe that we should pick a leader because we're angry, it is working for him. He also appears to have the "teflon" of a Bill Clinton, yet an even easier way of making negative news just vanish. He plays the political game exceptionally well.

Do I think that he will govern as a conservative? No. Do I trust him to appoint a Supreme Court Justice who believes in the Constitution as written? No, I do not. Do I trust Trump to champion any real conservative values? Nope. I think that he is purposely vague, and that has the happy consequence of not confusing those who love his immigration policy.

That's my opinion, anyway.

I would agree with that assessment. I'd differ by saying that he's strayed from keeping it simple, mainly due to so much airtime. And when he tries to speak on any issue with any detail, he exposes the fact that he has no idea what he's talking about. That won't sway his base, which is fervent, but it's not like any thinking person is going to hear the details he does espouse and think "Hey, he's making sense". You don't have to have concrete policy when running for office, but you do have to show some semblance of grasp on the issues. The further the race goes on, the more he'll be exposed as hot air. Pie in the sky promises are one thing, and they'll take you far (see Obama). But Trump doesn't even show an ability to grasp the basic duties of the president, let alone a coherence on any political issue.

That is kind of where I'm at as well. I've always prided myself on being moderate and fair and all that but I'm very turned away by this new wave of liberalism and Democrats by extension of that.

Voleur made a lot of good points. My favorite is that second paragraph. It's a point I've made on here before although he made it clear in a way that I've not been able to. A lot of liberals seem to be on a full out assault on the first amendment... if not technically, at least in spirit. It drives me nuts. I have no desire to use 'hate speech' or any of that nonsense but many liberals seem to have a much lower threshold for what qualifies as hate speech or racism than what is reasonable. Even worse is that is usually only applied one way.

I believe that in some debates people can make arguments that are completely fair and accurate (or that a reasonable person could believe are accurate), hold everybody to the exact same standard and some will find a way to call that racism or other forms of bigotry. I know this because I have seen it happen before, many times in fact.

It is summed up by another poster on here with a line that is as amusing as it is contradictory, "Say what you want, but just be willing to expect consequences for backwards ideas."

I agree with that. The intent of the first amendment was that the government couldn't throw you in jail for disagreeing with them or speaking out against them.. we now have tyranny by the masses...

No freaking way..

Welcome to America, Voleur

With our system, money and media there is no way in hell

both parties would burn this country to the ground before that happens.

Wow, I am a bit overwhelmed by your remarks Swish. I was making no comments about the Republican Party. I am not a Republican. How can I honestly make comments about the Republican Party if I never participated in the Party. I am only issued about my thoughts concerning my former party.

because you're converting. I already see it.

40's comments, as outlandish are they are most of the time, made a post that makes sense even though when it's broken down....makes no sense, if you know what i mean.

he always says "show me a young man who isn't a liberal, and i show you a young man who has no heart.."

and i always think to myself, so in order to be conservative, one must become an heartless bastard?

I reread your initial post bro, and there's nothing i would change in my initial response.

maybe i would've worded it different, but no PC, remember?

as i said before, if you're moving toward being more independent, fine. but your comments really seemed like you swung completely on the other side.

one problem we have in this country is that people care only about themselves. on the surface, thats normal, but in this country, we seem to go completely out of the way to make sure we only give a damn about ourselves. we screw people over like there's no tomorrow.

I'm a liberal, I will always be liberal. and i will be a democratic voter because of that, unless there's a moderate running in the GOP.

the military enforced my beliefs to be liberal. i care about the man and woman beside me. i care about children not being shot in the streets. i care about women's health. i care about equality. i care about equal pay.

Columbus said something about not caring about social issues too because it doesn't effect him.

and while i respect columbus, that's whats wrong with this country. we care more about money than the people that helped get us to become a wealthy country in the first place.

i site the military because people need to understand, when it comes to socialism and liberalism, the military is the PERFECT example of how it works.

ask anybody that has been in the military. without soldiers and NCO's, NOTHING get's done. the officers make the big bucks, but all they do is delegate. the military success is based off the welfare of soldiers in NCO's- or in the private sector terms- laborers.

thats why officer's and higher up spend so much time making sure we are taking care of. because without us, there is no victory. That's why they say NCO's are the backbone of the Army. Field grade officers go above and beyond to make sure the soldiers are good.

aka, the CEO's go above and beyond to make sure their laborers and accountants and such are taken care of. because with them, CEO's don't become ceo's, and might not even have a job.

and while the democrats are jacked up, they still represent the values of liberals. taking care of the people.

It's funny, because the democrats of even 20 years ago would've NEVER supported weed laws. but now look, we are letting the people decide, and the people said they want weed legal because it's fun, and for A TON of people, it helps them with a host of mental health issues, as well as physical issues.

taking care of the man/woman beside you. and it doesn't hurt that there's a massive amount of tax revenue to be made by trying to legalize.

i can go on and on. but basically, i don't see a reason that you posted that tells me you should be jumping ship.

jump ship and go where? the people that are always angry about something?

Dems only support the people when it won't lose them donors in economic policy, Swish. We both know this.

A young man has the freedom to feel for all the sad stories out there and thus becomes a liberal. Heart.

The older man has built a life and a career, owns a home and has a family he is responsible for. He is more concerned with protecting what he has and becomes a Conservative. He doesn't want his things taken away by the government to help the sad stories out there. He will give what and where he can. Brains.

and for them to not lost the support of the people, especially those that donate to them, they have to continue pushing what we the liberal people want.

I have no problem being the democratic base. the republican party has to go through the same exact thing.


i said before, one of the first on this board, that we need a massive political overhaul. we need reform. we need multiple, viable parties to choose from.

but until that happens, then we have to deal with the reality.

you either choose left, or right. it's rarely the middle.

Good. Just don't want you drinking the kool-aid that soo many Hillary supporters are drinking.

I just feel conflicted about voting for Hillary. She's represents everything I dislike about politics. Calculated flip flopping responses, bought off by wall street, etc.

I know at least a couple of more justices will end up being needed, so that's another important consideration.

Poor Bernie.

She's not racist, sexist, or xenophobic.

If it comes down to her vs anybody currently running on the GOP ticket, you already know which way I'm voting.

I'm sick of the every man for himself mentality. I'm sick of people screwing over hard workers just go make a buck. I'm tired of constantly being at war with the Middle East. I'm tired of being a so called melting pot, yet we have some of the worst atrocities in the world when it comes to civil rights.

It's either her or Bernie. Social issues is #1 for me, and I'm tired of the republicans making America look like a laughing stock with their ridiculous statements and policies.

They, the government who wrote that amendment, decided to ignore it and restrict free speech anyway. We need to stop looking up to a bunch of hypocritical, dead politicians. Or at least stop using their moral compass. We need to hold these ideas to our own, independent, higher standard.

Except the Constitution is not the Bible. It never was, and it never will be. The document, which is perhaps one of the greatest ever written, was flawed from the start, and the writers knew that and accepted it. Think about the 3/5th compromise. The constitution had to be modified 10 times just to be acceptable and passed.

We had prohibition, and then repealed it. We changed the definition of voter eligibility several times along the way. We have the power to change the Constitution, and periodically we do just that.

The second amendment is flawed as it is written, we know that but we can't get the political courage to change it.

Read Summer of 1787 for additional insight.

I voted 3rd party for years, and as far as I remember, no third party has ever taken so much as one state since 1968. A party will have to collapse and reform under another party for real change, like the Whigs to Republicans before 1960.