Cosmic accident to me is more acceptable than an omnipotent being with narcissistic tendencies . We may be unique but is is laughable to me to think we alone are THE living beings in the universe .
How in the world did you come up with your opinion of his world view by reading what he posted ?? I got a feeling of where you are trying to take this but at least be honest with your intentions .
How in the world did you come up with your opinion of his world view by reading what he posted ?? I got a feeling of where you are trying to take this but at least be honest with your intentions .
He ended his post with this:
Quote:
When I die, it is over for me.
That certainly implies, when taken along with the rest of his post, that he believes that this life is it, and that's it. Live. Die. Done.
That is why I said what I said.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
so he lives his life to the fullest, because we only have one life.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
so he lives his life to the fullest, because we only have one life.
And the man who gives up his live for his friend ..... is dust.
The 5 year old who runs out in front of a car and dies ... is dust.
The woman and child who dies during childbirth ... are dust.
Plus, if this life is all we get, then we should do everything we can, regardless of how those actions affect others, to improve our life, because we are, in the end, all that matters. Why would anyone else matter, if it lowers our life in any way, if this is all we get? You are right, we would have to live this life to the fullest, no matter how it affects others .... if this is all we get. Why would we be worried about how our actions affect others if this is the only one we get?
Yeah, that's really bleak.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
In your world view, the 18 year old kid, who is serving his country because he loves it and wants to protect it, and who heads off to war and is killed 5 days shy of his 19th birthday, just ceases to exist?
The newborn baby who struggles for life, and who finally is unable to go on any further at age 3 ... is just done?
The 10 year old child who is killed by a child molester, after a year of torment and torture at his hands, goes on to nothing?
If that child molester is never caught, and lives a beautiful life, with tons of money, and he commits crime after crime against children, until the day he dies, surrounded by family and friends, at age 102, then he is never punished?
Man, what a bleak outlook.
So from your point of view, who gets into heaven (both, neither, either/or are obviously acceptable answers):
- That child molester/generally awful person who, in his old age, asks for forgiveness from Jesus - That 18 year old soldier who was generally a good/solid dude but never got around to asking for forgiveness
I figure that you must think that the 3 and 10 year old get in by default but maybe you can give your opinion on that as well?
Yes they are all dust . The child, the Mother , the soldier , the molester each and everyone are dust . Not bleak just a fact that everyone will die period. I understood him to mean that when you die everything that you were dies with you and that whatever comes next , if anything , will have nothing to do with all that you were . Maybe all of the emotions , beliefs,fears ,cares , concerns that we have in this place will be revealed to be obstacles to be overcome. I can see where people would fear that and cling to an idea that if they are " good" enough and devoted enough then they would get to maintain all of the niceties of this realm forever .
Electrical impulses from firing synapses cause the light that people claim to see upon those events . I actually like that thought and think that there may be a bit of truth to it . Head towards the light into the mystic ( yep, now I'll be singing that song all night ) .
Careful, that's where he wanted the conversation to go . Prepare for a well rehearsed sermon .
I have asked this question to various religious people (including pastors, et al.) and have received wildly differing answers, which leads me to believe that nobody has any idea what they are talking about. If Ytown has a well prepared sermon on this subject, I'll be very impressed. And I want to read it.
In your world view, the 18 year old kid, who is serving his country because he loves it and wants to protect it, and who heads off to war and is killed 5 days shy of his 19th birthday, just ceases to exist?
The newborn baby who struggles for life, and who finally is unable to go on any further at age 3 ... is just done?
The 10 year old child who is killed by a child molester, after a year of torment and torture at his hands, goes on to nothing?
If that child molester is never caught, and lives a beautiful life, with tons of money, and he commits crime after crime against children, until the day he dies, surrounded by family and friends, at age 102, then he is never punished?
Man, what a bleak outlook.
It's not a bleak outlook. If this is all we got, its all we got. I don't want to pretend there's something after just to get my hopes up.
Or for those on your side of things... that same child molester repents at the end and is forgiven and goes to Heaven. What kind of sense does that make?
Look no one knows, and if they do say they know what happens at the end, they're lying whether they choose to understand that or not. Beliefs and faith are not known truths.
How did all of this get started? who knows? I do know that I find all religion to be BS. I do think its just made up fairy tales/fables that were an early way to have laws and explain things that we don't understand yet. Do I find any fault in anyone who believes in it? Not at all. That's their prerogative and whatever gets them through the day and to be a better person, so be it. The idea someone has to "worship" a god in order to be accepted into the afterlife is hilarious. If the only determining factor is belief, leave me out. There's plenty of people who believe who are totally crappy people.
The number one determinate of someone's religion is culture/geography. If that doesn't tell you its all been made up, I don't know what will.
Does that mean there is no god(s)? certainly not. I'm not an atheist, but agnostic. I've had experiences in my life that at least made me go hmmm. I'm not ignorant enough to write off the fact there may be god(s), but I certainly don't think god(s) has anything to do with what goes on here. Maybe he kickstarted the universe (or multiverse). Maybe he didn't. Either way, we are here for one life, make the most of it. Treat other people kindly and expect the same from them. If people just did that, this world would be a much better place.
I'll never understand the people who ask, man because you don't believe, don't you just want to kill people, or do this and that, all the time? No.... no I don't. Not in any way, shape or form. What scares me, is the fact they ask that question leads me to believe that their belief is the only thing stopping them from doing that. Scary thought.
Careful, that's where he wanted the conversation to go . Prepare for a well rehearsed sermon .
I have asked this question to various religious people (including pastors, et al.) and have received wildly differing answers, which leads me to believe that nobody has any idea what they are talking about. If Ytown has a well prepared sermon on this subject, I'll be very impressed. And I want to read it.
well hopefully he post it in the God thread.
read so much about jesus on this board that even jesus is tired of it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Careful, that's where he wanted the conversation to go . Prepare for a well rehearsed sermon .
I have been reading YTown's posts for years as he puts his beliefs out there for all to consider and backs it up with passages from the Bible. He doesn't do this for his own glory, he does it because he cares about everyone here.
Then you come along and cheapen it all by suggesting he is playing a game.
Your's is the most ignorant post I have ever read on these boards.
I wish I were able to understand quantum physics and its theories better than I do . I
Some of it's rather easy. Energy never dies. Matter is just changed into other matter. If your 'soul' or whatever you want to call it is energy, then that energy will live on in some form.
Where they leave me scratching my head is when they go into Entanglement Theory and String Theory which is fascinating to me but kind of hard to follow . I recently read an article that challenged the way that we view time and that present events effect past events and that for matter to exist it has to be observed ... Shakes head .....
Do you guys believe in near death experiences? I havent had one,Im just curious.
Yes I do....
I do as well, and continuation after this life's death and ghosts and spirits and in a supreme being that is a combination of everything in this universe and all parallel ones as well
That's the problem with Christians... They think their God and belief system is the only valid system all others are lesser and evil.
No, Christians just believe, as does almost everybody else, that there is one true answer. Christian's believe theirs is right, Muslims believe theirs is right, Jews believe theirs is right, athiests believe theirs is right, etc... some people say they don't know the answer.. but you have to admit, there can only be ONE right answer... So the fact that you will admit that you don't know the answer, doesn't make it "the problem with Christians" that they think they do know the answer.
And Christians don't view them as lesser or evil, they view them as wrong.
Where they leave me scratching my head is when they go into Entanglement Theory and String Theory which is fascinating to me but kind of hard to follow . I recently read an article that challenged the way that we view time and that present events effect past events and that for matter to exist it has to be observed ... Shakes head .....
Linear time is man made.. man is stuck in the linear model a to b etc because our feeble minds need a beginning and an end in order to relate to anything.
Careful, that's where he wanted the conversation to go . Prepare for a well rehearsed sermon .
I have asked this question to various religious people (including pastors, et al.) and have received wildly differing answers, which leads me to believe that nobody has any idea what they are talking about. If Ytown has a well prepared sermon on this subject, I'll be very impressed. And I want to read it.
well hopefully he post it in the God thread.
read so much about jesus on this board that even jesus is tired of it.
Yeah...I like Y-town a ton but he reminds me of my parents...and said everyone was going to burn in hell..my mother would punish my sons when we would visit...when they was little...by having them read bible verses over and over.
I couldnt take it no more...they shouldnt look at it as punishment..its what made me really dislike church and religion in general at a young age...and she got pissed when I told my sons to close the bible and get up off your knees. I doubt Jesus would have you doing this for laughing and imitating characters in a movie they thought she acted like.
My last convo I had with my mother before she died i said I hope you dont find out the crap you warped me and my brother with is a total fabrication...I'm still screwed up from the bible thumping and everything I did was leading me an my wife/kids to eternal hell fire...
In your world view, the 18 year old kid, who is serving his country because he loves it and wants to protect it, and who heads off to war and is killed 5 days shy of his 19th birthday, just ceases to exist?
The newborn baby who struggles for life, and who finally is unable to go on any further at age 3 ... is just done?
The 10 year old child who is killed by a child molester, after a year of torment and torture at his hands, goes on to nothing?
If that child molester is never caught, and lives a beautiful life, with tons of money, and he commits crime after crime against children, until the day he dies, surrounded by family and friends, at age 102, then he is never punished?
Man, what a bleak outlook.
So from your point of view, who gets into heaven (both, neither, either/or are obviously acceptable answers):
- That child molester/generally awful person who, in his old age, asks for forgiveness from Jesus - That 18 year old soldier who was generally a good/solid dude but never got around to asking for forgiveness
I figure that you must think that the 3 and 10 year old get in by default but maybe you can give your opinion on that as well?
Regarding another post, I don't have a sermon ready on this subject, but I will do my best to answer anyway.
Jesus said that the little children would come to Him. I think that they get in by virtue of being innocent in God's eyes. God chooses to see them in this way, the same as he chooses to see sinners and sinless, because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
For adults, it doesn't matter how good they are, or how bad they are, at least as far as whether they are condemned, or not. If a person does not accept Christ, then they are lost. If they do, then they are saved.
I do wonder whether or not someone who would do such a thing as being a habitual child molester would turn to Christ, but if he does, then he can be saved. The Apostle Paul killed Christians, as many and as often as he could. He was a zealot for his beliefs, and he considered Christians to be heretics. I think that there is no doubt that the Apostle Paul will make it to heaven, due to his faith in Jesus Christ.
Christianity is really simple.There are 3 ways to get into heaven. The 1st would be to live a perfect, sinless life. One man has done that in the entire history of mankind. The 2nd way is to be an innocent child. However, at some point, around adulthood, they become responsible for their sins. If they then die in their sins, they are condemned. The 3rd way is through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith includes not only accepting Him as Savior, but also as Lord.
That's it.
Now I do not pretend to know what happens to those who have never heard the gospel of Christ. I would assume that maybe God gives them the opportunity to accept the gospel of Christ, and if they refuse, then they are condemned. The Law is clear, and the Gospel is clear. There is one way, and that way is Jesus Christ. I do not know how God handles this particular situation, though.
Back to our repentant sinner ...... if a man truly comes to faith in Christ, and truly repents of his sins, accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, then he is saved. This is true for Mother Theresa, and it's true for the guy who guns down 50 people. We are all sinners, and God gives us all the opportunity to come to salvation. Obviously, many who are the world's worst criminals will never want to coe to Christ, but if they do, then they can be forgiven.
Some may say that this is not fair, but I think about this:
God could have destroyed the earth and all that was, and ever would be on it, when Adam and Eve sinned, if He wanted to. He could allow us all to live our lives, and if any of us could live according to His Law, we could be saved, and if not, we would be condemned. However, God knew what would happen if He simply did either or these, and in one, everyone is condemned, and in the other an enormous group of people who would come to faith in Christ would instead never be born. Instead, God gave us the chance to be born and live, and to come to faith, and people had faith in the Messiah prior to Jesus' time on earth.
Now, about those who come to faith very late in their lives, I do believe that there will be rewards in heaven, based upon what the Christian has done in the service of Jesus. This is not to say, in any way, that we "earn" our salvation, because salvation is a gift, but rewards are different, and are an earned benefit, given by how gladly we use the gifts God lives us, in His service.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
That's the problem with Christians... They think their God and belief system is the only valid system all others are lesser and evil.
No, Christians just believe, as does almost everybody else, that there is one true answer. Christian's believe theirs is right, Muslims believe theirs is right, Jews believe theirs is right, athiests believe theirs is right, etc... some people say they don't know the answer.. but you have to admit, there can only be ONE right answer... So the fact that you will admit that you don't know the answer, doesn't make it "the problem with Christians" that they think they do know the answer.
And Christians don't view them as lesser or evil, they view them as wrong.
and therein lies my biggest question, how can a religion, any religion who professs their GOD to be all things limit access to that GOD by one viable avenue.
IMHO an omnipotent being can be reached by limitless paths.
I believe that Jesus was in fact GOD incarnate and he is my avenue to the supreme being and if I am to be awarded his life after death promise then I must follow his teachings. I firmly believe that a good Muslim will be awarded in kind just like I believe a good Viking was granted Valhalla
nd Christians don't view them as lesser or evil, they view them as wrong.
DC I like and respect your opinion but I think your wrong here...Ive ran into more then a few that do indeed look at others as evil and most definitely less...my parents was a damn good example of that...and didnt miss a lick of church.
Try not to lump everyone together but some of the most vile back stabbing people I met was "religious" church going Christians.
Try not to lump everyone together but some of the most vile back stabbing people I met was "religious" church going Christians.
When I say "Christians"... I'm usually referring to ones who are making the effort to be what they are supposed to be, not just those who claim the title...
So yes, I agree with everything you said... except I guess I've been lucky because in my 45 years of going to church, most of the people I've dealt with have been pretty good people... to the extent that I knew them.
II suspect that in earlier times espousing views like that would have earned you some face time with an executioner or at least a visit with the local torturer where he might have just pulled out your tongue . Nowadays it would just get you kicked out of the club .Personally I like where your head is at with it as the way to wisdom should have many paths.
I understand...I will say when the wife and I was first married we was struggling and it was a church who helped us for 2 months with food and paid my utility bills.
So dont get me wrong I'm not against Christians hell my own wife is one...Ive just had a really rotten experience with the church and its most ardent supporters when I questioned their core beliefs.
Id imagine had I met you when I was young..my opinion would be different...I had no good role model in this respect when I was young and forced to participate.
That's the problem with Christians... They think their God and belief system is the only valid system all others are lesser and evil.
No, Christians just believe, as does almost everybody else, that there is one true answer. Christian's believe theirs is right, Muslims believe theirs is right, Jews believe theirs is right, athiests believe theirs is right, etc... some people say they don't know the answer.. but you have to admit, there can only be ONE right answer... So the fact that you will admit that you don't know the answer, doesn't make it "the problem with Christians" that they think they do know the answer.
And Christians don't view them as lesser or evil, they view them as wrong.
and therein lies my biggest question, how can a religion, any religion who professs their GOD to be all things limit access to that GOD by one viable avenue.
IMHO an omnipotent being can be reached by limitless paths.
I believe that Jesus was in fact GOD incarnate and he is my avenue to the supreme being and if I am to be awarded his life after death promise then I must follow his teachings. I firmly believe that a good Muslim will be awarded in kind just like I believe a good Viking was granted Valhalla
I have a question:
Why do you believe that Jesus is God incarnate?
Which of His teachings do you follow?
The reason is that Jesus Himself said that He is THE way. Period.
John 14:6 says: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
That's it. One way, at least if we believe what Jesus said.
Jesus also said that He came to give His life as a ransom for many.
If we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, then why would God send His Son to come to earth, and to die a torturous, humiliating death, nailed to a cross, naked, in front of his mother and hundreds of other people. Prior to the cross, He was "scourged"; whipped to the point that the flesh was flayed off of his back, with a whip that had pieces of metal and glass embedded within it. When He went to the cross, He had nails driven through his hands (almost the wrists) and through the heel bones of his feet, which I can tell you first hand is the single most sensitive nerve juncture in the body. While Jesus was hanging on that cross, the torture and humiliation continued, as he was beaten, stabbed, and given vinegar to drink by soldiers well schooled in 2 things .... extending the life of the person being crucified, and making them suffer as much as possible. Why would God then pile the sins of the entire world on Jesus as He died on that cross, burying Jesus in that which is more repugnant to Him?
Why would God do this to His own Son, and then say "Oh, and people who want to believe other things will be saved too, if they truly believe those other things"? Doing so would make Jesus' sacrifice completely meaningless. Would God do that to His own Son?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I had no good role model in this respect when I was young and forced to participate.
I would suggest the fact that you were forced to participate is also a big part of the problem.
As for everything else, yea, there is plenty good... and plenty bad about "the church" in general. Like with most things, it comes down to leadership. There will always be issues when you have several hundred (or several thousand) people in a church.. but with strong leadership, the church can stay on the right path and either change the people or weed them out...
someone hit me up on FB when a new topic is posted.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
That's the problem with Christians... They think their God and belief system is the only valid system all others are lesser and evil.
No, Christians just believe, as does almost everybody else, that there is one true answer. Christian's believe theirs is right, Muslims believe theirs is right, Jews believe theirs is right, athiests believe theirs is right, etc... some people say they don't know the answer.. but you have to admit, there can only be ONE right answer... So the fact that you will admit that you don't know the answer, doesn't make it "the problem with Christians" that they think they do know the answer.
And Christians don't view them as lesser or evil, they view them as wrong.
and therein lies my biggest question, how can a religion, any religion who professs their GOD to be all things limit access to that GOD by one viable avenue.
IMHO an omnipotent being can be reached by limitless paths.
I believe that Jesus was in fact GOD incarnate and he is my avenue to the supreme being and if I am to be awarded his life after death promise then I must follow his teachings. I firmly believe that a good Muslim will be awarded in kind just like I believe a good Viking was granted Valhalla
I have a question:
Why do you believe that Jesus is God incarnate?
Which of His teachings do you follow?
The reason is that Jesus Himself said that He is THE way. Period.
John 14:6 says: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
That's it. One way, at least if we believe what Jesus said.
Jesus also said that He came to give His life as a ransom for many.
If we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, then why would God send His Son to come to earth, and to die a torturous, humiliating death, nailed to a cross, naked, in front of his mother and hundreds of other people. Prior to the cross, He was "scourged"; whipped to the point that the flesh was flayed off of his back, with a whip that had pieces of metal and glass embedded within it. When He went to the cross, He had nails driven through his hands (almost the wrists) and through the heel bones of his feet, which I can tell you first hand is the single most sensitive nerve juncture in the body. While Jesus was hanging on that cross, the torture and humiliation continued, as he was beaten, stabbed, and given vinegar to drink by soldiers well schooled in 2 things .... extending the life of the person being crucified, and making them suffer as much as possible. Why would God then pile the sins of the entire world on Jesus as He died on that cross, burying Jesus in that which is more repugnant to Him?
Why would God do this to His own Son, and then say "Oh, and people who want to believe other things will be saved too, if they truly believe those other things"? Doing so would make Jesus' sacrifice completely meaningless. Would God do that to His own Son?
I understand that YTown and I truly believe that in the Christian realm that Jesus is all he professes to be.
But I consider the supreme being to be all things and inherent in that are other worlds, other universes other times and inmuberable beings that have no access to the teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus is love, ultimate love and are those people condemned then to eternal damnation?
I don't believe so, so there must be more than one avenue to the supreme one
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