DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft The WR Thread

So you don't believe learning that you should draft a position of strength in a draft to get a bargain in talent isn't important? Okay, check.

That's what I've seen and learned from the past. If you wish to ignore everything you've learned from watching the draft in the past, that's on you.

From the looks of it, you didn't really bother reading my previous post. It holds a lot of merit had you bothered.

I think he excelled at being Gordon. That's the problem. He needs to be more like someone who toes the line and puts being an NFL player at the top of his priorities.

This is what we need this year. Especially if we grab Goff/Wentz, either is going to need targets to be successful. If we can resign Schwartz, the QB has good protection. So they need to give him the best chances to succeed as far as talent in the skill positions around him. He's got Barnidge and Duke already, lets shore up the receiving corps with young potential. Lets hope we don't pull another MoMass and Robiskie WR draft.

You're getting so touchy in your old age.

You're the one suggesting people drop the past, not me. My point was we can learn from the past. I pointed out how and some of the lessons I learned from the past.

Quit thinking everything is some personal attack on you. I mean you can continue if you like, but from where I'm sitting, the idea is pretty funny.

We get MoMass and Cinc gets Green, both from Georgia...I like SEC WRs normally...IMO, improving backers more important or DL...we have talent coming back which was hurt/or ineligible....cut Bowe...hope braintrust can find a diamond wr later.....GO Browns!!!!

While last year's defense has proven that we have weakness all over that side of the field, I am one of the few that trust that Horton has the ability to maximize the little talent we have. If/when we draft a QB at 2, I think we need to take a hard look at WR in the 2 and 4 rounds. There are too many holes to fill in one off-season. I'm all about filling the rest of the draft out with BPA LBs, DEs, and CBs.

We've seen what will happen if you have a young QB try to carry a team without the tools to succeed. The closest young QB we've started with some resemblance of help on the offense was Brady Quinn. That was with an aging RB in Lewis, a #1 with frying pan hands in BE, and a legit TE that was a hit away from claiming social security disability checks in Winslow.

I think the key would be to NOT draft a qb w/the second pick and then you don't have to worry about it.

Yet DA went 10 and 5 w/those same bums.

That he did...in 2007. I remember thinking 2008 would be our year to break into the next level, then Edwards let us down with those crucial drops in that first Dallas game. It went downhill from there. What a foreshadowing to how that year would end! DA's 90 MPH dump passes in the short game didn't help either, LOL! Before the Hoyer versus Manziel arguments there was the DA versus Quinn civil war among the Dawgtalkers!

You must not have been around for Couch/Holcomb or Frye/Anderson. The backup QB is always the favorite player on the roster in Cleveland.

The problem is that you're completely obsessed with offensive linemen that it clouds your judgement to the point of ad nauseum.

If you look over time, teams who invested heavily both on OL And DL sustain longer success.

I wish I had substance to back this statement. Since I don't, I'll state as an opinion. Teams having a solid OL and DL can win games having minimal first round talent at the play maker positions.

I do agree with Tab receivers are a bit over hyped. It is not to say they are not needed. I believe a few teams have proven you can win having a squadron of situational talent as opposed to having the all-in-one receiver. Teams like the Saints, Steelers, and Patriots have an arsenal of receivers with different skill sets taking advantage of teams weakness.

Receivers are greatly dependent on the QB. You can have two three high quality receivers, with Weeden as your QB it still makes you limited. I get you need a strong QB. Having a strong OL, several receivers, and running backs allows teams, such as Cincinnati, to have success with an above average QB.

I am a defensive minded person when it comes to building a football team. Knowing Cleveland needs a future QB makes this draft hard. At #2, Cleveland most likely will see on the board DeForest Buckner and Joey Bosa. Taking either Jared Goff or Carson Wentz passing on those two DL will be an extremely tough decision. Taking either of those two hoping you can develop a mid round QB is playing Russian roulette with five in the chamber. You can argue both sides of the debate and be correct.

Actually the debate, until Tab started throwing punches, lol, was that in each draft class there is usually one or two positions of real strength.

That would enable you to draft those positions a little later and get great value at that position with quite a bargain. The position or positions that fits that description vary from draft to draft. As an example, a draft we ignored the WR position where so many were available.

I'll use 2nd to 4th round picks as an example

Jordon Matthews. 2nd round #42 pick
Allan Robinson. 2nd round #61 pick
Jarvis Landry. 2nd round #63 pick
Donte Moncrief 3rd round #90 pick
Martavis Bryant 4th round #118 pick

My point is that you can find much better talent at a given position based on the talent level at that position in any given draft.

I see a lot of D talent in this draft. IF we select a QB at #2, I believe there will be a lot of great talent left on the D side at #32 where value can be found. In 2014, I felt that way about WR's. It varies according to the talent in any given draft. IMO, if we wanted value at the WR position, 2014 was the year to get it, not this year.

Pitt, I can't argue against.

One of many things I disagreed with Farmer was his tactic going against the grain. Meaning everyone is going receivers he went corners.

Successful team always go best available. If this is the year for defense or better yet DL, you must take the best drafting near the top. The QB position arguable is a position that trumps. I have difficulty giving into this concept. Why can't teams learn a work around? It could be we may loose out on a premium DL next three or four years getting an average QB. Then again, we may not see adequate QB for the next several years, which very well is likely.

Oh, I'm not advocating drafting a QB at #2. For some reason I believe we will, but I certainly don't have a horse in that race.

In this draft, if I went D at #2, I'd probably double up on D at #32. I reserve the right to change my mind based on what happens with Schwartz and Mack.

Neither am I. I can argue against drafting a QB all day. What I can't argue is what to do to fix the QB position.

I agree. Sitting at #2 we will likely see DeForest Buckner and Joey Bosa. Browns draft Groff or Wentz. I bet we pay for it.

Continue taking defensive guys later this draft is a must. There is way more talent in this draft to avoid.

Couldn't agree more.

And I'd even go further and say stay in the trenches at 65.

We can't run and we can't stop the run. FIX IT.

ILB Ragland
OG Garnett

I'm one counting on Gordon. And I'll say this to the end that Marvin Jones WANTS to be with Huey again.

I'm one that wants the QB at 2. But I also know that if Huey and the Sanders don't see what they want in these top 2 QB's, they will pass. I'll be good with that because I believe in Huey and Sanders.

There's never many options for good QB's in FA and it's older than old a team praying on a later round QB hoping they can groom him into a quality starter. It's rarer than rare doing it that way.

I personally think Wentz by year 3 is going to be a BETTER QB than Flacco and Dalton are now. And Pitt's losing Roth's in the coming years. That puts us way ahead in the North.

This QB at 2 can be Game Changing going forward.

And I agree. Defense is going to be there at 32.

Who said we need to take a WR at 2?

Nobody

He's just using fallacies and passive aggressiveness.

That would be ridiculous. They only touch the ball like maybe 6-7 times a game.. which means they basically are useless..

Which obviously means we cant draft a defensive player high, they rarely if ever get to touch the ball..

We should probably draft a Center. They touch the ball every offensive snap! Even more than some QBs!

Man, you are annoying. Listen more. Talk less.

First, I have made several mocks, all as suggestions. Nowhere did I say "a WR has to be the pick" or anything like that. Even the quote that you grabbed had us trading down to 4 and not even picking at 2. That mock also assumed re-signing Schwartz, Passtor, and Miller (all OL) as the only FAs to keep.

I've discussed it with you several times, and you either ignore my responses or cherry pick unimportant tidbits to harp on. You insisted OL was by far the safest pick and I went through the last ten drafts to show you that that is not the case in modern history, but you ignored it. You told me picking a WR in the first and second round was not a way to build a championship caliber team (as if that decision in one year could doom a franchise) and asked me to show an example where it happened, and I did, during the same modern era I previously looked at. You ignored that, too.

The point isn't that we need to draft a WR at two. Treadwell is still my choice with our first rounder but there are other players I would be good with depending on what we do with the rest of our picks. Ramsey, Spence, Hargreaves... I could be OK with Goff if that's the direction the team decides to go.

By the way, do you realize that 3 of the top 4 picks in the draft are owned by teams that start at least two first round OL last season?

And, part of the reason I want Treadwell is that he's such a monster in the run game! I'm starting to think you haven't even watched him play.

There was a point in time where I was so sick of the Browns drafting WRs. They spent a lot of high picks on WRs. Let's see...KJ, Q, Davis, Cutt, Leon, Robo, MoMass...am I missing anyone?

However, the WR unit is an area of weakness for the Browns. Also, I think the game has changed due to the rules and emphasis on passing the ball..........so, I have changed my opinion on drafting a WR. I would have no problem w/the Browns drafting one if he was worthy of the pick.

Where? At #2? I'm thinking you are thinking at #32...or at least I expect so.

there's no WR worthy of the #2 pick, imo. that boat was last year and the 2014 draft class.

thanks, I appreciate you going back and looking at it. I mostly agree with what you have there, but I'd give Monroe a nod as a good one, even though the Jags scrapped him in a bad decision to take Joeckel. Matt Kalil I disagree on, though... most people have said the Vikings are disappointed in his performance, and though I haven't seen them a lot I keep hearing the Vikes OL is bad. I was mostly going off what I had heard on that one, though.

Early returns on Greg Robinson and Jake Matthews are not good. Of course, there's time for them to turn it around I guess, though Robinson has already been moved inside to guard. My first round breakdown included guards and centers as well, FWIW... not saying yours has to or needs to. I thought ten years was a large enough sample size to reflect the state of college football and the current NFL rules as it pertains to making draft picks nowadays. That's why that was the cutoff that I used.

And I guess top 10 is a good measure to use, since we are almost always picking in the top 10, haha.

Good job explaining your thinking on the subject. A lot to learn in there.

Yes indeed! Many thanks eo' for the information and the time that you invested in that post...

Who was the starting LTs for the last 2 Super Bowl winning teams?
A LT is not going to make or break a franchise.
Joe Thomas is a future HOF LT.
But yet the Browns are one of the least successful franchises over the past 15 years.
LT are a nice luxury.
But it's more important to have playmakers on both sides of the ball.
Your list was well done
But Jason Smith was a creme puff and Levi Jones
Played 8 years with the Bengals

I'm guessing a nerve was hit. I'm still trying to understand the point of posting this at the end:

Someone said (in another thread) there aren't any WRs in this draft. I disagree. There may not be any true top tier WR (Treadwell?), and only a few 2nd tier, but there are several 3rd tier guys who would be improvements for the Browns. Some of the smurfs can be useful, but we need WR with size. Aside from Gordon, who we can't count on, the only WR with size on the roster are Bowe who shouldn't be on the roster, Pryor who shows promise as yet unrealized, and Hartline who is a limitedly reliable possession receiver. If we wait until the 4th round for a WR, I believe there will still be good WR options on the board. I think Spruce will be there in the 5th, and I suspect Lucien could go undrafted.

As much as I like Treadwell and Miller, I think we have more pressing needs in the first 3 rounds, but can still add improvements at the position in the later rounds.