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We got Weeden with Atlanta's 1st.
We used ours on Trent..
You know.. after trading up one spot.. again.. Yeah, we used one of Atlanta's picks to trade up.
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I think we've made a lot of really good trades.
We just havent got crap with the return.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think we've made a lot of really good trades.
We just havent got crap with the return. We had eight first round picks in five years, the players we drafted: Phil Taylor (didn't play football last year) Trent Richardson (didn't play football last year) Brandon Weeden (released by a team starting Matt Cassel at QB) Barkevious Mingo (seven sacks in three years) Justin Gilbert (the worst pick of the bunch) Johnny Manziel (...) Danny Shelton (incomplete) Cameron Erving (drafted a backup center in the first round, when he played he was bad, looks like Wimpy from Popeye) That is a whole bunch of stink.
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Man, that's amazing.
This team needs to make big to solid hits for years to catch up. Can't have any more huge mistakes. Probably can't even afford minor mistakes.
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Man, that's amazing.
This team needs to make big to solid hits for years to catch up. Can't have any more huge mistakes. Probably can't even afford minor mistakes. That would be great, but we all know that won't happen. We must hit paydirt on our first 3 picks though, as after that, it is pretty much a crapshoot...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Man, that's amazing.
This team needs to make big to solid hits for years to catch up. Can't have any more huge mistakes. Probably can't even afford minor mistakes. That would be great, but we all know that won't happen. We must hit paydirt on our first 3 picks though, as after that, it is pretty much a crapshoot... Now, with early round picks, the expectation is a lot higher than just contributing on the field. With a first or second round pick, an NFL team is expecting a player that can come in, start, and contribute for years to come. With that in mind, our second method for setting the bar for a “bust” is that the player starts for less than one year or plays less than 40 games in their career.  http://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick?
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Thanks, cfrs. Outstanding... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick? That was arch'. He is awesome...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick? Finally, see pick 148 on the graph (highlighted in blue). In the past 50 years, only two players picked 148 have started more than one year and played in at least 40 games.
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Thanks. That's a very entertaining tidbit.
Anyone who is wondering... Tampa has 148.
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick? That was arch'. He is awesome... More and more people are finally getting it. I'm not certain what I want to do this year. Should I take over the Browns, or should I be President.
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick? That was arch'. He is awesome... More and more people are finally getting it. I'm not certain what I want to do this year. Should I take over the Browns, or should I be President. Why not both?
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whoa... what is that devil blue dot outlier pick? That was arch'. He is awesome... More and more people are finally getting it. I'm not certain what I want to do this year. Should I take over the Browns, or should I be President. Well, you get to the White House every year...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I like having Fridays off.
But, now that I think about it, I could turn the Browns around in 2 days a week, AND turn the country around in 2 more days per week, which would give me 3 complete days off.
I'll ponder it a bit further.
But I guarantee, if I decide to do both, first, the Browns win the Superbowl, and putin would be ridden by a horse, kim jong un would take care of his people, China would forgive our loans and illegals would report to detention, immediately.
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Can you Deport Steph Curry while your at it?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Can you Deport Steph Curry while your at it? While I could, I wouldn't. I would simply mandate that he become the person in charge of covering for hillary's lies. He would deport himself shortly there after. Problem solved, Cav's win the title.
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I like having Fridays off.
But, now that I think about it, I could turn the Browns around in 2 days a week, AND turn the country around in 2 more days per week, which would give me 3 complete days off.
I'll ponder it a bit further.
But I guarantee, if I decide to do both, first, the Browns win the Superbowl, and putin would be ridden by a horse, kim jong un would take care of his people, China would forgive our loans and illegals would report to detention, immediately.
Are you really Donald Trump? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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No. He e-mails me for advice. He doesn't call because I won't give him my number. He doesn't listen to my advice. He's awful. I'm awesome.
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Interesting graph and read. I didn't have anything to back up my opinion but have long felt that is you can find 2 solid starters per draft, you are doing about as good as possible. The rest pretty much falls in to the luck category.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Good news. That means the Browns will probably trade down and get Spence.
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I remember clevesteve and eotab having a dispute on whether or not we should take a tackle with one of our early picks. This article should help clear things up: 1. Recent history is very ugly. In the past 10 years, there have been five tackles chosen either first or second overall. Above-average starting tackles today among those five: zero. Jake Long (2008) is a backup in Atlanta now after two major knee surgeries. Jason Smith (2009) failed with the Rams, in part because of a severe concussion, and is out of football. Eric Fisher (2013) is improving, but was Pro Football Focus’ 39th-rated tackle last year; Luke Joeckel (2013) continued to struggle in Jacksonville and was rated 52nd. Greg Robinson of the Rams (2014) was 73rd of PFF’s 76 rated tackles last fall.
2. The odds of picking even a good tackle very high are long. Of the 17 tackles picked in the top 10 since 2005, only three were ever first-team all-pro. Cleveland’s Joe Thomas and Dallas’ Tyron Smith are the only current starters who have been so honored, while Jake Long earned one first-team nod in Miami. Now, obviously only one left tackle per year can be named first-team all-pro, and when you draft one of these players high you expect him to be a blind-side protector on the left side. But only four of the 17 ranked in PFF’s top 20 of tackles for the 2015 season play on that side: Smith, Thomas, Trent Williams of Washington and Jake Matthews of Atlanta. Lane Johnson in Philadelphia is a good player. D’Brickashaw Ferguson was very good in mid-career but has fallen off some now. Russell Okung likely will be allowed to walk in free agency by Seattle after a mediocre run.
3. The modern top-pick tackles can’t match the quickness of the perimeter rushers, from the looks of this post-season. I watched some Tunsil tape on YouTube the other day. He’s powerful and fairly athletic. I am not sure he’ll be able to keep the elite edge rushers at bay. That’s going to be the biggest challenge for those judging him.
A couple of points to consider about judging tackles. Because most colleges are playing pretty simplistic spread schemes in which the linemen don’t have to do much adjusting or reading, the tackles entering the NFL have an adjustment period that’s longer than it used to be. One team studying tackles last year said the top tackle on their board had, essentially, one man to block on every passing snap—unless that man stunted to a spot two gaps away. Basically, this tackle had the wide guy on every pass-rush. Sometimes in the NFL, obviously, it’s not that simple.
The other point: Endurance and fast-paced play-calling have become staples of the top college tackle; that’s been prioritized in many programs over technique and strength and how to adjust on the fly against a varied rush. What you saw Wade Phillips and the Broncos do in the post-season was key on the matchups he felt were huge edges for his defense. Can there be any argument that Von Miller versus Carolina right tackle Mike Remmers was the downfall of Carolina in the Super Bowl—and Miller using speed mostly but also power and inside moves? And can there be any argument that Phillips found more than just Miller to wreak havoc on the Patriots in the AFC title game, when the most plodding New England tackles (such as Marcus Cannon) were continually exposed by speed?
In the NFL today, the pass-rushers are ahead of the edge protectors. Teams will be trying to turn that around in the draft this year. My advice: Look for power-forward tackles, the Jonathan Ogden types, instead of the mashers. Because the game has turned into stopping the speed on the defensive edge. That’s how Denver won the Super Bowl. Problem is, the draft hasn’t stopped this edge speed yet, and as the combine kicks off in Indianapolis, the most important factor for the Tunsil-led tackle prospects is whether they can keep the speed on the edge and out of the backfield.
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How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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I remember clevesteve and eotab having a dispute on whether or not we should take a tackle with one of our early picks. Thanks for the article. A little clarification, though... We were disputing whether or not offensive line / tackle (depending on the post) was "a safe pick" with a low bust rate probability. I also argued that we may have hit diminishing returns with our OL investments, regardless of how good the players are. Either way, I don't want to use our first on an OT this year.
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Oddly enough... here's another one. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete...ts-safest-picksPETE PRISCO Senior NFL Columnist Follow Pete NFL Combine Musings: Why linemen are no longer the draft's safest picks February 24, 2016 7:58 pm ET INDIANAPOLIS -- Plug and play. That's what they used to say about top offensive line talent entering the NFL Draft. It certainly isn't that way anymore. Even with the strong possibility that Mississippi offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil might be the top overall pick in this year's draft by the Tennessee Titans, the days of just picking a solid lineman and plugging him in on the NFL level are long a thing of the past. NFL COMBINE How to watch online, TV schedule, list of players Forget plug and play. It's now pick and pray. "All the way throughout the National Football League I think everybody is concerned about offensive line play," Seahawks general manager John Schneider said. "I think you could talk to college coaches recruiting high school kids they are concerned as well." "Blame the college game," another AFC general manager said. That's part of the problem. Lack of practice time and on-field work with limits by the new CBA are another reason. But since this is NFL Scouting Combine week here in Indianapolis, let's focus on the first part of it: The dreaded spread. Colleges love it, and a lot of teams use it, but it makes evaluating offensive linemen tough to do. For starters, some teams don't have their linemen put their hands on the ground, which makes transitioning to the NFL run-blocking ways tough to do. Tunsil excels as a pass protector, but he admitted the run game is what he needs to improve on for the next level. "I've got to get a little bit heavier in the lower body, man," he said Wednesday. Notre Dame's Ronnie Stanley, considered by many as the second-best lineman in this class, isn't a great run blocker either. "He's a little soft," one scout said. It used to be players came out of the college game strong in the run game, but lacking in pass protection. Now it has flipped some, but even talented pass blockers have struggled in the NFL. Look at some of the recent top draft picks, players like Jacksonville's Luke Joeckel, Kansas City's Eric Fisher and a handful of others. There are no future Hall of Fame players in the group. Can Tunsil change that? He talks a big game. Laremy Tunsil admits he needs to improve his run blocking. (USATSI) "I think I have the great feet, the great frame," he said. "I just think I'm the best. You've got to have that swagger about yourself. You've got to be confident. Everywhere you go you've got to have that confidence." Put in the Super Bowl 50 tape and you will see the four offensive tackles in the game being overwhelmed by the opposition. It's the reason Denver beat Carolina. The Panthers tackles simply couldn't hold up. Around the league, that's a constant issue. The offensive line play in 2015 was, well, offensive. Cody Whitehair is a player some scouts are projecting could be a first-round pick as a guard. But he played tackle as well in college at Kansas State. When he was a tackle, he didn't put his hand down in the ground. At guard, he did. "I feel like I can make the transition [to the NFL]" Whitehair said. I asked him if was easier to run block with his hand on the ground. "Coming out of a three-point you stay lower," he said. "It's easier to get underneath the guy." Players coming out of pro-style offenses have an advantage. Iowa center Austin Blythe played for coach Kirk Ferentz, who is a former NFL line coach. He teaches the NFL way. One NFL GM called Ronnie Stanley 'a little soft.' (USATSI) "They want to run the ball first and foremost," Blythe said. The same is true at Alabama, where Nick Saban runs a pro-style offense. "Coming from a pro-style offense ultimately helps in going to the next level," Alabama center Ryan Kelly said. It helps, and it makes the evaluation process a lot easier for scouts and coaches. But it's no definite, that's for sure. Unless something changes drastically, expect to see the turnstile line play again next season in the NFL. Quarterbacks might want to get some added down time this offseason.
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The college spread has probably made a lot of positional evaluations tougher.
I see Run Blocking being the problem...very teachable but then comes in the CBA and for OL the true teach is with HITTING. They lose out more than any other position. OL Coach is going to become one of the most important hires in Football.
But the SKILL set for OT that separates them is in their Pass Blocking skills. Run blocking is so much a state of mind. Technique is not difficult, movement with a consistent Base.
If I'm looking for interior I'd take a look at a lot of the NFL Base Offenses or the rare Run O's like Georgia Tech. If there is a stud there. It might be easier to teach Pass blocking now a days without pads.
Interesting view - thanks for sharing. Don't know if its takes that much evaluation - I think the need has had teams reaching for those who have the specs to be solid at OT but not the football. But QB, TE, WR & OL lots of increased transition into NFL pretty much RB and vision w/pass catching skills has changed the least. Next for me might be WRs cause lets face it - They don't hit much - touch football stuff, run routes and catch passes.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Run blocking is so much a state of mind. Technique is not difficult, movement with a consistent Base. I am not trying to be argumentative, but I disagree w/that statement. My teams ran a ZBS and technique was huge in the running game.
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If I'm looking for interior I'd take a look at a lot of the NFL Base Offenses or the rare Run O's like Georgia Tech. If there is a stud there. It might be easier to teach Pass blocking now a days without pads. Just since you mentioned it, last year they had a guy, Shaq Mason, who ended up getting drafted in like the 6th by NE. He played in several games for them I think this year and started in three. The odd thing about Georgia Tech's line I saw is they cut ALL THE TIME. It was actually making me mad. He's a good player, but that crap just ticks me off. I'm sure many will disagree, and are certainly within their rights, but I think cut blocking should be illegal, not just chop blocking.
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I doubt you remember but I might have pimped 3 players in last years draft. Shaq Mason was one of them. I wanted us to you one of our MANY 4th-5th round picks we had amassed. Rather than Erving, I wanted actually J'lel Collins for RT/OG and thought we could have Groomed Shaq Mason for Center in anticipation of losing Mack (not Erving) But I really got high on him during the Senior Bowl practices as DTs were a strength and he was winning all the battles. Even pass blocking  Oh he didn't have the ideal height and/or arm length and came from a run college team. Liked what I saw.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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The news on Jaylon Smith's medicals are coming out and they are not good. Difficult day for #NotreDame LB Jaylon Smith, who had his medicals. Ankle & knee nerve issues, teams believe he's out for 2016 -- at least That has got to knock him out of the first two rounds, right?
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That could knock him to the 7th.
Just look at whatshisname that we picked up last year who would have been an upper first round talent, if healthy.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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"Nerve issues" heh. I wonder if he'll last to our first comp pick...
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"Nerve issues" heh. I wonder if he'll last to our first comp pick... I am always for taking these guys in the mid to late rounds and hoping they rebound.
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"Nerve issues" heh. I wonder if he'll last to our first comp pick... Good thought. It's a comp pick, so why not? Nerve damage in knee and ankle? Someone asked about him dropping out of the 1st two rounds. I would think so. I would think he drops quite a bit. Not as far as IFO, someone will take a mid-round flyer on him.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Jags didn't get their other DE in FA and signed Tashaun Gipson to play FS:
2) traded to JAX for #5 and #38
5) Laquon Treadwell, WR Ole Miss
32) Josh Doctson, WR TCU
38) Vonn Bell, FS Ohio State
59) Dak Prescott, QB Miss St (get ahead of Denver)
65) traded to KC for #59 with #139 -- KC lost round 3 pick today due to tampering
99) Victor Ochi, OLB Stony Brook
137) Cyrus Jones, CB Alabama (4th round comp pick for Buster)
176) Caleb Benenoch, OT UCLA (5th round comp pick for Sheard)
178) Alex McCalister, OLB Florida
182) Trevon Stewart, FS Houston (5th round comp pick for Hoyer)
220) Mitch Smothers, C Arkansas
QB: McCown, Prescott, Bercovici
RB: Crowell, Johnson, UDFA/FA
FB: UDFA/FA
LT: Thomas, Miller
LG: Bitonio
C: Erving, Smothers
RG: Greco
RT: Pasztor, Benenoch
TE: Barnidge, Telfer, Bibbs
WR-X: Gordon, Doctson
WR-Z: Treadwell, Hartline
WR-Y: Hawkins
LE: D. Bryant, D. Wynn
NT: Shelton, Meder
RE: Hughes, Cooper
LOLB: Orchard, McCalister
SILB: Dansby, Carder
WILB: Kirksey, ??
ROLB: Ochi, Mingo
CB: Haden, Jones
CB: T. Williams, Gilbert
NB: K. Williams, IEO
FS: Bell, Stewart
SS: Whitner, Campbell
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So, who's coming out in 2017? We should be able to start negotiating with our favorite guy now.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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So you think Kruger gets cut?
Tackles are tackles.
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So you think Kruger gets cut? I don't know if he does... there's still room for him on the roster but a mock is a mix of what you would do and what you think will happen... Personally, I would. For all the bitching and moaning he did last year about dropping into coverage, he was still primarily rushing the passer on the money down and didn't get the job done. I was watching him specifically the first half the season on 3rd down because he was who I hoped would get to the QB but he was worthless. I'd rather develop the young guys at this point. JMO.
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Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Mock Drafts Pt. II
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