DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack Opts Out

I'd like to keep Mack and MS because I feel they are good players but let's face it we did lose 13 games with them and our O was not very good. We can't do much worse if they both leave. With some better skill players we might even do better on O. Hopefully, we can keep at least one.

I think Mack has burned the bridge but MS is doing the right thing.. And although Mack is a much better player, I would prefer, at this time, to retain MS.

If Mack, as you say, is a much better player, why would you prefer to keep Schwartz?

QBs RBs and WRs have a big effect on those stats.

It's the "Brown's way" to spit in the face of logic and ignore common sense when it comes to player evaluation (and just about every other facet of operating an NFL franchise).

And last year on Charles Clay.

The sacks and hits were most definitely influenced by our QBs proclivity to hold on to the ball too long (as many have discussed on here).

Combined with the WR's inability to consistently get separation, or even be seen because they could all hide behind a fire hydrant.

By that logic, our QB's must be the worst QB's in the league. The ones that held the ball the most, the running backs with worst vision?

Sorry, but that's and easy way out. IMHO, our QB's and Rb's were not that bad, nor our line that good.

Also there is a better explanation, simply put, IMHO people don't know how to evaluate good OL play. Bad OL play is easy to detect, but good OL play not so much.

In the end what matters is performance, so it puzzles me that with such poor results from the O, we still say we have a good OL.

The conclusion I draw is that either we didn't have such good OL performance, the alternative being that OL play simply just doesn't matter that much.

Can't argue with a big headline

That was a bit harsh. He has a point. The oline performance was struggling for a number of reasons.

I know! That's freaking hilarious, right?!

Even with my lack of experience and knowledge on the subject that's the conclusion I came to as well.

Browns to Have $49.918 Million in Cap Space With Alex Mack Opting Out

By Chris Pokorny  @DawgsByNature on Mar 2, 2016, 2:29p

Prior to Cleveland Browns center Alex Mack opting out of his contract, the team had an estimated $42.368 million in available cap space. What happens to the team's cap space now that Mack, for the time being, no longer has a cap hit in 2016?

Mack's base salary in 2016 was set to be $8 million. When you remove him from the Top 51 players (which are used in calculating the cap space), you add a minimum salary player from the bottom, which costs $450,000. Therefore, the net gain in cap space is $7.55 million, which pushes the team's cap space up to $49.918 million. Here are the formal calculations updated for your reference:

NFL 2016 Salary Cap (Confirmed): $155.270 million
Browns' Rollover from 2015: $20.734 million
Browns' Adjustments from 2015: $625,000
Browns' 2016 Adjusted Salary Cap: $155.270 million + $20.734 million + $0.625 million = $176.629 million

Browns' Top 51 Cap Total: $125.097 million
Browns' Dead Money for 2016: $1.614 million
Browns' Total Cap Spent for 2016: $125.097 million + $1.614 million = $126.711 million

When you subtract the two subtotals above ($176.629 million - 126.711 million), we conclude that the Browns have "$49.918 million in cap space" as of March 2nd.

I agree Eo,, No way does Sashi care about saving face on the Irving pick. He had no hand it it. Or maybe a little but nothing overt.

That was a Farmer and his minions pick. Perhaps even Pettine.

I actually thought it was a good pick given what I expected to have happen with Mack (and it has).

It would have looked like a terrific idea had Irving panned out. Thus far, he hasn't. Plan was good, execution not so good.

There was someone on here that mentioned that Irving was best at Center. For all I know, they feel he'll be fine at Center.

I was very pleased when we selected Cam and somewhat dismayed at his play last season. I fully expect him to settle in this coming year. That's simply MHO...

Do you have a link?

. For what - my "brain" is not hard wired...

I mean, if you're going to voice your opinion, you should probably have at least two articles to back it up..

What is there to back up. Cam didn't even play the position he was drafted to play yet. I agree he'll probably settle in playing his position.

Let me give it a go:
"The" (definite)
"An" (indefinite)

Done...

You are just kidding around right? Please tell me you aren't serious with that question!

When we kid around, we usually put the text in a shade of Purple so that everyone knows it's supposed to be humor or sarcastic.

This was the rare case when the use of purple was not required. The humor was patently obvious...

No question they are in charge of the roster moves.. But when you put it in the context you did, I don't believe they have to live with Farmers mistake. And I believe they know it.



Ahh, I think Mack has more to say about that then Haslam or Sashi. They could offer him 15 mill a year and he can still turn it down. Money talks for sure, but if he doesn't want to be here, he doesn't have to stay.



I think you are totally wrong on this. totally., Yes, Erving is on the roster, yes he was a first round pick. And if he had shown great ability last year, then I'd say you were probably right. But, that isn't the case is it.

Let's face it, Erving wasn't very good at all last season.

The only positive I can find is that we didn't see him at Center (at least I don't remember seeing him at center in a game) therefore, he's officially an unknown to you and me.

Perhaps they have film on him at practice where he probably did take snaps at center and perhaps that film showed that he was indeed a solid center prospect. I don't know. To me that's a bit of a stretch, but I guess it's possible.

As for your comments on the D in this thread, I won't argue you with you that, we did spend more and they've not lived up to the billing. But that's a topic for a different thread.

This whole fiasco about Mack opting out of his contract is funny. Who cares if he opts out. The Browns are rebuilding. They have a plan and are set to follow it. I read that Mack could ask for a 5 year/$50M contract with $20M guaranteed. He had $8M/year, $12M guaranteed left on his contract when he opted out. A 5 year/$50M contract is $10M a year with $20 guaranteed equating to $4M a year guaranteed for the life of the contract. That is the same yearly guarantee he is due under the past contract. To me it comes down to $2M a year for 3 years and $10 a year for 2 years for a grand total of $26M. That is what Mack opted out for. If Mack believes the Browns are going in the right direction, perhaps the right direction is to not resign Mack and to move on from him. I know it is a business decision. If I were the Browns, I would offer him 3 year/$30M with $12M guaranteed with 2 club option years. No more holding the design of the team hostage to a couple players. If he believes in the Browns direction, let him prove it. If he does not, let him show that as well by walking.

Voleur

Looks like he already has a lucrative opportunity lined up. So many Reboots in Hollywood these days.

they have a plan every two years or so.....

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 25m25 minutes ago
#Browns HC Hue Jackson on Alex Mack and value of elite center: "You can put it right up there with the QB when you have a guy like that."

hmmm... would seam hue thinks more highly of mack than some on this board...

Browns' Hue Jackson on value of elite center like Alex Mack: 'You can put it up there with the QB'

By NATE ULRICH Published: March 3, 2016

Coach Hue Jackson illustrated the importance of the Browns retaining three-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack when he spoke Thursday night about the value an elite player at the position holds.

"You can put it up there with the quarterback when you have a guy like that who has played so well for so long," Jackson said during the Cleveland Auto Show at the I-X Center. "We understand the situation that he's in, and he has a right to do what he's doing right now."

Mack, 30, recently voided the final three years of his contract and is set to become an unrestricted free agent at 4 p.m. Wednesday. One of his agents, Tim Younger, said it's "certainly very possible" Mack could return to the Browns.

But Mack had $8 million in each of the next three years left on his deal, and he didn't opt out to make less money. So if the Browns want to re-sign him, they'll likely need to make him the highest-paid center in the NFL at about $10 million per year.

"I'd love to have Alex back, and I think you guys all know that," Jackson said. "I said that last week [at the NFL Scouting Combine]. He's a tremendous football player, and he has the right to [opt out], and we'll see how this all unfolds when it's over. But Alex knows how I feel about him, how we feel about him, and we'll see how it ends up."

Mack's agents can begin contract negotiations with other teams beginning at 4 p.m. Monday.

If Mack leaves, the Browns will probably be breaking in a new center in front of a rookie quarterback, likely one they'll draft second overall on April 28. So an argument can be made that the job Mack has held since 2009 will be even more vital than usual.

The Browns drafted Cameron Erving, who played center and left tackle at Florida State, 19th overall last year, but would he be ready to fill Mack's big shoes?

"Well, obviously Cam is going to get a chance, but every player has got to earn their role on our football team," Jackson replied. "Will he get an opportunity? He will and there will be some others, too. But we're not just going to hand anybody anything. Whatever roles that are going to be used for our football team are going to earned throughout our offseason, and we'll have the whole offseason to find out exactly who those players will be."

Erving didn't play center last season, but he struggled mightily while filling in for injured starters at guard.
"I'm not concerned about anybody right now," Jackson said when asked about Erving's rough rookie season. "I haven't been around him, and until I get a chance to watch him in the weight room, get a chance to coach him and spend time with him will I be concerned with any player on our roster."

Mack is one of the Browns' four key impending free agents. The others are right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, wide receiver Travis Benjamin and free safety Tashaun Gipson. Inside linebacker Craig Robertson and special teams aces Johnson Bademosi and Tank Carder are also headed for the open market.

"I’m sure [Browns head of football operations] Sashi [Brown] and his group are doing anything and everything they can to make sure that we get some of these guys back," Jackson said. "And if we can, great. And if we can’t, I want to wish them well on their journey. And I hope I don’t play against them, but I know how that process goes."

Seeking starters

Jackson agreed the Browns are hoping to acquire two or three starters in free agency.

"I would say that would be one of the goals, but it can't be the only goal because we also know you can get outbid," he said. "That's just part of it. So we'd like to have that happen, but if it doesn't, I don't think we're going to bury our head in the sand. We also know the draft is coming [in late April], and that's the next place where you build your team."

Restricted free agents

The Browns also have four restricted free agents: wide receiver Terrelle Pryor, offensive lineman Austin Pasztor, outside linebacker Scott Solomon and special teamer Don Jones.

NFL teams have until 4 p.m. Wednesday to submit qualifying offers to their restricted free agents for whom they desire to retain a right of first refusal.

"I think we'll do what we need to do as far as those guys are concerned to see if we can get them back," Jackson said. "We'd love to have them. We'd love to have all of the restricted guys and all the free-agent guys. We'd like to have them all back, but we'll see how this all unfolds."

link

hmmm... would seam hue thinks more highly of mack than some on this board...

must be groundhog day...

I've said this about 100000000 times, I don't care who gets away, as long as we replace them with equal or prefer an upgrade..

and mack would be very hard to replace. i saw that last year with the joke of greco replacing him. what a mess that game was...

I don't disagree with you at all.. not even a little, but if you are going to do what Farmer did and risk losing this asset, then thems the chances you take.

I recognize that maybe the plan was to plug Erving in and that may still be the plan if Mack does leave, but that leaves me with a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

The good news, we still have a chance to retain him, we also have free agency coming up and the draft. So we still can fix this. We're not toast yet.

It's just not going to be easy.

So here's what I predict.

If Alex doesn't sign here, Seattle will get him. And they will get him cheaper than we could.