DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack Opts Out

I think there are a lot of posters who really undervalue just how good of a player Alex Mack is. You can hear the respect that Hue has for him, yet his tone changes dramatically when speaking of Erving.

I don't get how so many think that Schwartz is more valuable than Mack. I really don't. I think that Schwartz is a fine player. A good player, but Mack is elite. He is very smart and does a great job w/the line calls. He is strong at the point of attack. He can block on the second level. He is an elite player and the team will suffer if he leaves.

I don't know.........maybe many fans don't understand the importance of the line calls and how they can help/hurt/kill your offense?????

vers...to those who dismiss the value of the offensive line...here is what the Browns competition thinks about their offensive line...


Flacco hopes Ravens use cap savings to solidify the offensive line

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 4, 2016, 8:31 AM EST

Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco agreed to a contract extension this week that gives Flacco a huge guarantee up front but spreads out the salary cap hit into future years, which means Baltimore created $6 million in new cap space for 2016. And Flacco knows how he wants to see that money spent.

Flacco said on PFT Live that he hopes the savings go toward shoring up the offensive line. Although he didn’t mention any players by name, he made it clear that he’s hoping guard Kelechi Osemele, who’s slated to become a free agent on Wednesday, stays in the fold.

“The one thing is I would say we need to get our O-line solidified, see who’s going to be there for sure,” Flacco said. “We’ve got a couple guys, at least one guy who’s out in the open there, whether we’re going to get a contract done with him or not. So once we get those guys nailed down and see who they’re going to be, I think that’s the biggest part of a championship, as far as the offensive side of the ball.”

Osemele will have options, and there’s a good chance he’ll be offered more money elsewhere. But the new deal for Flacco gives Ravens the cap space to compete for Osemele, and that’s what Flacco wants to see.
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He's had this job for two months, how do you know he won't.

As of this moment, we've not lost anyone.

What you call creative I call irresponsible. They are drafting just 4 spots below us for a reason. They are losing free agents left and right because they can't afford to pay them anymore.

By pushing all of that Flacco money into next year's cap hell, they are no longer over the cap, but they aren't much under it. They now have $11,085,966 to spend, but most of that will be needed just to sign their draft class. Their estimated rookie cap is $8,584,000.

That would leave them with a whopping $2,501,966 to sign someone. Do you think Kelechi will take an $8 - $10 mil hometown discount per year to sign with the Ravens?

Even if they did somehow magically manage that, they would still have no money to make transactions during the season. They wouldn't be able to even cut guys because they couldn't afford the dead money.

All so they can face an even tougher cap hell next year and a bigger exodus of free agents.

Thank Joe Flacco's agent. He insured that we won't have to worry about the Ravens as contenders for as long as Joe is on the team and he's made the dead money on Joe so high that he is impossible to cut as well.

who did the contract negotiating the last two years? yea brown has had a part in our FA walking.

Those decisions weren't his. That was Farmer. Sashi was mostly a CAP guy with a nice title.

so i guess brown told farmer spend what you want on our FAs and that cheap jerk farmer set his high price and that was it. ok i will buy that lol

I was hoping we were going to sign a bunch of unproductive guys, but you've changed my mind with this statement.

(To be fair, in the recent history of this franchise, we haven't done well in this area.)



"Hey Sashi, I know I didn't play as well as you guy expected me to, so feel free to take some of my salary for next year."

The Browns never come close to using the available cap money.

The Browns lose year after year after year.

The Browns change coaches and FO personnel over and over.

The Browns raise season ticket prices by as much as up to 40%.

The Browns spend a great deal of time on exploring new marketing techniques, including trying to get tax payers to set-up TC in Columbus part-time, changing uniforms, enhancing the fan experience, etc

The Browns are then defended by genius fans who try to use elementary sarcasm when criticizing other fans for wanting the team to spend money to improve the product on the field.

The Browns love fans like you.

I'm pretty sure that's sarcasm so I'll let it go.. Nobody I know could buy that garbage.

I suppose to could end your torment (and ours) by rooting for the Steelers!

Our offense has been dead for years.

You are using circular logic but it is a little amusing so I'll bite.

First they aren't re-signing all their free agents anymore. Since they decided to give it all to Flacco, they haven't been able to afford them.

First it started with their defense leaving, then their WR's, and this year it will be their o-line. They have to count on Flacco to score more points because their defense is weaker and he has to throw to guys that can't get open and this year he'll do that without an o-line.

The Ravens are done because they are close to being over the cap and they are lacking talent. They are no where near the Denver Broncos as far as talent goes.

The Broncos are smart enough not to give big money to Manning this year because they aren't going to get enough production, but lets see what they do with Osweiler. If they lock him into a long guaranteed contract and he doesn't produce, they will be in the same boat as the Ravens very quick.

They will lose some big pieces of their defense this year because they can't pay those guys with fairy dust. If they can't figure out how to sign Von Miller long term, then both he and Demarcus Ware are free agents next year and they are already losing their inside LB's this year.

I'll leave cfrs15 to the commentary on the bright incites that we should be paying the good players and not the bad ones.

Nobody ever said not to spend money. Just don't spend it stupid. Making jump ball Joe the highest paid QB and locking in that pain for the next 6 years is just plain stupid. At the same time the rest of the free agent talent is leaving the Ravens for better money elsewhere.

Besides the Broncos, you forgot to mention the Bills, Dolphins and Redskins. They have all spent more money as well. They are going to lose Marcel Dareus, Lamar Miller, and the rest of their free agents. Why? because they spent stupid money on guys like Charles Clay, Jordan Cameron, and DeSean Jackson. They watch their "good" players walk away because now they can't afford them.

{sigh} if they only had the money that they overpaid the bad players, so they could keep the good players...

Bowe HAS to be thankful every day when he wakes up. Still an appalling situation.

Can we bundle him with somebody and trade him?

Greco was fine at Center. The guy we signed, from Seattle, whose name escapes me, was an absolute disaster at RG, and that's why we wound up moving Greco back to RG, and bringing up the Center we had on the Practice Squad.

McQuistan.

You do understand in order to keep Mack Browns will pay him $2 million plus per season over what Joe Thomas is getting. I believe Schwartz is wanting equal pay.

You want to keep your good players...at what cost?

That's the guy, officer. He blew up the OL that year, practically all by himself.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...-fit-for-browns

Priority No. 3: Sign RT Ryan Schraeder. Yes, it would make more sense to re-sign Mitchell Schwartz, but Schraeder could be one heck of a replacement. At 6-foot-7 and 300 pounds, Schraeder is an aggressive right tackle who excelled after he took over at right tackle in Atlanta in Week 8 last season. Pro Football Focus raved about him. At 28, he should have good years left. And he probably will cost far less than Schwartz.

Saw and said hmmmm...worth a look don't know anything about but will research him for sure. then keep Mack???

What some seem to forget is the rules changed a few years back where rookies didn't get the money and veterans started getting the money. Joe is in the middle of a contract signed before the rules changed. It's very possible he will be paid less than a few others.

I agree with the notion that building through the draft means you keep the guys you drafted if they are worth keeping unless you just want a team full of rookies and 3-4 year players.

The Browns have never spent anywhere near the cap like they are waiting for something. I don't know what they are waiting on, but so far they haven't seemed to find what they are seeking.

Schwartz is entering his prime. Mack is there. My attitude is this, can they continue to play at a top level for another 3-4 years? That is the question that needs to be answered unless teams and players start signing 7 year contracts. We are talking 4 years here. In both the case of Mack and Schwartz, I think yes. I spend some cash to lock them up. If I can only have one, I keep Schwartz. It's a harder position to fill, especially in the new NFL. It wasn't many years ago we thought Fraley was great. My only point in that is I think it is easier to find a decent enough center over a tackle.

In the end, I don't see any point in being 50 mil under the cap year after year unless you suck, which we have. This year we have a few players we really need to keep. The only way to get better is to keep as many good players as possible. You can't keep letting them go and replacing them with a cheaper option.

It's a business. A good company retains the talant, be it a shop floor maintenance worker who needs to me moved to a lead position at another $9 a hour or a mid manager who needs to be moved from a $45K position to a VP of some sort making 75K a year.

Keep the people who produce results in whatever it is they do.

You brought up good points in your post. I like to address this piece.

Looking at the last several front office sets how can you believe the team on the field would be any better spending close to cap? They can't assemble an average team. At the very least Browns managed their cap well.

I Look at the cluster F in Miami. Browns suck and be in the same hole. I feel for Adam Gase. He will not last more than two years. They are maxed in cap with an owner like Haslam. I don't get this "win yesterday" mentality. It looks good on paper!

Mack wanted out so he's out. I'd love to resign him but the odds are pretty slim. Unless we just throw a ludicrous offer at him he will sign elsewhere as is his wish and right.... I wish him the best.

I was one of those that did under value Mack until two seasons ago when he went down and our running game left with him for the most part. He will definitely be missed. But you can't make a guy want to play here.

32 is looking like a Center pick. Would be nice if we could take something else, but Mack leaving leaves a big fat hole in the center of our line. If they take the best center on the board at 32 I won't complain as long as they get a good one. Hopefully we can pick up a RT in free agency to tide us over until next draft.

That was an extremely strong post, peen.

I want to sign both of them as well, but we need everything on both sides of the ball and that $50 mil doesn't go very far when over half of it goes to 2 players.

I am learning to deal with about half right now. It's gonna take at least that. It's how much more than that it will take that I am worried about

What makes zero sense is spending money like there isn't a cap.

The reason why we are spending so much more money on defense is that we did exactly what you said and gave Haden a ton of money while we still had cap room. How did that work out for us last year? He's probably a concussion or two away from retirement right now.

Even you have a price that you just wouldn't spend, you just won't admit it.

Would you give Mack $50 mil a year? 1/3 of your cap space for just one guy? 40? 30? 25?

"We should spend whatever it takes" is a cop-out for people that don't want to do the math.

What you should do is spend whatever it takes to make sure that your family has milk for their cornflakes tomorrow. The convenience store up the street has it for $98.00 a gallon. Happy shopping.

Milk is important. It's good for your bones.

"It's not my money."

Unless you have ever went to a game at the stadium or watched one on cable or bought a jersey or bought some windows from Universal Windows Direct.







...or paid taxes in Cleveland

Sorry DD, it's not your money. I have season tickets and live 550 miles away and go to 6 games a year. What I spend on the tickets I spend 4X going to the games. That is my choice. I have never felt like I own a part of the Browns or felt like they owe me something other than showing up for games.

It's my choice.

Not sure where you are going with this but the above part was kinda a joke.

I think cfrs15 said it's not his money because he lives in CA and the government has all his money.

Let me try to explain my stance this way...

If we pay Mack $10 mil a year, Schwartz $12 mil a year and guys now want to pay Osweiler $15 mil a year that's the end of our free agency this year. We lost the rest of our FA's and basically traded Manziel for Osweiler. Did we get any better if Osweiler flops?

I think tying up that much money in a guy like Osweiler amounts to stupid spending. I think giving Mack much more than $10 mil a year amounts to stupid spending. For Schwartz $10 mil a year is even too high for me and I think that we can get the same production for less than that on the market.

We need just about everything and spending all of the money on just a few guys isn't going to help.

I want to sign both Mack and Schwartz, just don't be stupid about it.

Got you. I missed the part about Brock. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'm pretty sure if we drafted oline often and early last year this thread wouldn't exist.

So are we all in agreement that the transition tag was an out and out disaster?

Yes, and no.
Yes, it was a complete disaster. By the same token, I'm not sure things would be any better today had we used the Franchise tag instead. In fact, I think it would be worse. It would have brought only one more year of him being here and then we'd still have had the people that failed to get a long-term contract up to that point as the ones attempting to negotiate the long-term contract to keep him here. When I think about that aspect, it pretty much makes me confident in saying that he'd have left in Free Agency last year for certain.

In the end, ironically, that Transition Tag is probably the ONLY reason he's still here and that we have any chance of actually keeping him beyond next week. Period.

I didn't realize that he was 30 already until I saw the Jags are not interested due to age. It's probably going to be an amicable split. Signing a 30 year old center to a 50m deal?

Seems like a stretch, but we'll see.

We got him for an extra year. If we franchise him, he likely signs the tender and then goes into free agency the next year.

I'd give it to him, 5 years, frontloaded with plenty of guarantees. Make him very happy and comfortable for the first 3 years of it, but have the value of it dropping off at the end of it so that if we have to split up a few years down the road, we can do so easily. Heck, maybe make half of it a signing bonus, then graduate the rest over the five years so that he is less expensive each year.... 6, 6, 5, 4, 4 per year. Cap-wise it's all the same, but salary-wise it let's him get $41M in his pocket over the first 3 years of the contract (25M signing plus salaries) and it gets more affordable for us each year. Heck, make it a six year deal to spread the cap hit out even more, give him $5 mill salary in the final year and call it a 6 year - $55 million deal.

His cost to us is only 10.16 million the first two years, then it is under 10 million each year after that... dropping to 8.16 million in years 4 & 5, by which time there will be a new CBA (expires in 2021) and new TV deals with a higher Cap.


It lets us keep one of the best (if not THE best) center in the league for a few more years, keep him happy, but it doesn't handcuff us long term.