DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Presidential Primaries IV

"Trump is a messed up guy with a hole in his heart that he tries to fill with money and attention. He can never ever have enough of either and he’ll never stop trying. He’s sick. Which makes him really really interesting. And he pulls you towards him which somehow feels good or fascinatingly bad. He’s not a monster. He’s a sad man. But all this makes him horribly dangerous if he becomes president. Give him another TV show. Let him pay to put his name on buildings. But please stop voting for him." -Louis CK

And before I head out for the night...dont send me anymore of your tripe in a PM...it was creepy and to be honest your a little far out there and you need to just keep your insults to yourself.

Wont fall for you garbage and get suspended again Jack

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I did nothing to get you suspended. You got yourself suspended. At worst, I goaded your irrationally.

And you've yet to explain a coherent Trump policy position. You keep answering "you just wouldn't get it" like a rebellious teenager.

And say what you will about me, but this is creepy, and to be honest, a little far out there:

He looks like Saul Goodman

Better Call Drumpf!

For full disclosure, I looked, and this is the only PM I ever sent you...

"Is this a clever game, or are you honestly stupid enough to believe in Trump?

There have been a lot of clever parody accounts on the board...

...but are you just pretending to be a moron Trump supporter?


If so, I'll play along. Let's have some fun with the idea that Trump is a great guy?

If you really like him...for real...Jesus, why?"

-----

What, exactly, do you feel is "creepy" or "out there" about this?

Your statements about Trump have been so laughable and devoid of rational thought that I initially thought you might be RocketOptimist running a parody account meant to mock Trump supporters. That's how crazy the statements made seemed to me. Option B was "do you believe this for real? If so, why? That's nuts"

Again, please explain why you found that message "creepy" and "out there".

I really like Louis CK as a comedian, however taking any sort of political insight from him (or any comedian for that matter) to deface a politician is ridiculous. I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make with that CK quote.

"Between Bernie Sanders' published sexual fantasies and his ideology, to elect him would mean "50 Shades Of In The Red" for the country." - Dennis Miller

I really don't care for any of the candidates at this point on the Republican ticket. If Hillary wins the democratic nomination at least I can count on the same old, same old in DC should she become president. If Sanders wins, I am voting for whoever is on the Republican ticket no matter what. Sanders scares the crap out of me, much more so than anyone with a chance on the Republican side.

Who is an insightful view? Charles Krauthammer? Rachel Maddow? Megyn Kelly? Stepanapolous?

His point is astute. His profession is irrelevant to the quote.

To be honest, I don't find anyone on TV/radio/Hollywood all that insightful, however I would put comedians at the very low end of the spectrum of who I would listen to for political advice. However, I've forgotten that comedy is the source of news now, so I guess it is status quo.

To you Louis CK may be astute, maybe just as astute as the Dennis Millers quote is in my original post. I find it far from astute (same for the Miller quote, just using for context). I do not think Trump is any worse than the other candidates with the exception of Bernie. He is far superior to Sanders who will be taxing the country into oblivion.

I really do like some of Sanders ideas - a first for me to say about a democrat. It is his implementation process that is foolish, but alas it is the standard liberal mindset. Tax the hell out of everyone and let the government take care of it because, hey, they know best.

Here's a question: If Bernie gets in and gets his way and everyone's taxes shoot through the roof what happens to people's 'lifestyles'?

Meaning this, if you're working your tail off to maintain a certain neighborhood for no other reason than you earned it and you can afford it, are you then going to be expected to downgrade despite your efforts just to be able to fund all of these pie in the sky dreams?

Or will the values that we place on everything just 'adjust' based on the market that has been severely depleted of money?

Does the value of your house drop? Will we have to do another HARP type program just so people can stay in their homes? Is Bernie going to tell your mortgage company that your loan amount is now 'xxx' instead of 'yyy'? Will the tv that Best Buy has hanging on the wall now cost less?

Food?

How about increasing minimum wage to $15.00 an hour? Is a Big Mac meal now going to cost $12.00? Or is Bernie going to tell McDonalds that they can't raise prices? Is he also going to tell those executives that they can now only make 'xxx' in order to make up for his wage increase?

Where does it end?

Wow Ted good for you you’re in the top 1 tenth of one percent? If so then sorry to say Ted but time to pony up. We have been waiting for you to drop crumbs from your table so we can eat, and of course we follow you around hoping that all that money you got falls from your pockets so we can eat and have at least some hope but you’re so damned cheap we can’t get a crumb let alone any measure of hope.


See above

I have to wonder do you at all understand the economy and how it works ?

I ask this question all the time and nobody ever answers it so here goes again.

Is it better for our economy if one man has the means to buy 100,000 cars, or is it better if 100,000 families have the means and do buy 100,000 cars.

Think Ted, and really I would love for some of the right base to take this on. To date no one has but Henry Ford certainly understood it, but does the right understand it?


No Ted most people will have more money not less especially when they raise the minimum wage you fear so much

Really, food prices don’t go up now?

Yes Ted along with your wages and the wages of most wage earners the price of a Big Mac will likely go up. It’s proven that when minimum wages go up, so does the economy when you give people more disposable income they spend more in the local economy and it creates more jobs. But in order to understand that you have to understand economics, which you obviously don’t.

It’s going to get better Ted for ALL of us, feel the Bern

Oh I put this piece up Yesterday and not a single right leaning voter touched it so I figure you will Ted cause your so in touch with what’s going on….

Joe Scarborough nails it! Reaganomics’ failure has led to the rise of Trump’s populist campaign

Donald Trump’s success in the GOP race is causing the Republican party to scratch their heads and fear the worst. And so far, no Republican has been able to understand why Trump is as successful as he is in this race.

Theories have abounded in right wing circles that maybe they just need a more conservative candidate to jump into the race. Or surely if they funnel tens of millions of dollars into Rubio’s campaign, more people will fall in line. Or maybe they need a more logical candidate like John Kasich (R-Ohio). Or maybe people like Trump’s bullying, and if another candidate matches him, they’ll be successful too. But they’ve all been wrong, and no Republican has been able to look introspectively at the party and name what gives Trump huge popularity — until now.

Tuesday morning on Morning Joe , former Republican lawmaker and host Joe Scarborough actually nailed exactly why Trump is so successful in this race — Reaganomics is an abysmal failure. For the last 30 years, Republicans have peddled an economic plan that only favors the rich, but with the promise that the wealth at the top would trickle down to ordinary Americans. Scarborough points out, though, that “it never trickles down.”

Scarborough explains:

“The problem with the Republican Party over the past 30 years is they haven’t — and I’ll say, we haven’t — developed a message that appeals to the working class Americans economically in a way that Donald Trump’s does.”

BOOM. Exactly.

Scarborough continues:

“We talk about cutting capital gains taxes that the 10,000 people that in the crowd cheering for Donald Trump, they are never going to get a capital gains cut because it doesn’t apply.

“We talk about getting rid of the death tax, the death tax is not going to impact the 10,000 people in the crowd for Donald Trump. We talk about how great free trade deals are. Those free trade deals never trickle down to those 10,000 people in Donald Trump’s rallies.”

Chuck Todd chimes in that Scarborough “sounds like Bernie Sanders.” And that really is the crux of Sanders’ message, the wealth goes to the top and stays at the top, and it’s why a virtually unknown Senator from Vermont was able to be competitive with a Democratic elite like Hillary Clinton.

Scarborough points out that the people in Trump’s rallies are the people who became unemployed after these trade deals. They never see a stream of wealth trickle down, and that right there is why Trump’s populist message is resonating so well within the right wing voting base.

Scarborough continues, saying:


“The Republicans said, listen, we’re going to have all of these trade deals and tax cuts that benefit our wealthiest donor class, but we’ll give them the social issues. We’ll give them abortion, we’ll give them gay marriage, we’ll give them guns and they’ll vote for us.”

And that’s exactly it.

Republicans’ social issues are being held hostage so voters will continue to vote against their interests. And the same thing is also happening in the Democratic field, they hold liberals’ social issues hostage, so they can continue to pass off trade deals and deregulation to help those at the top. NAFTA was passed by a Democratic president. Wall Street deregulation was passed by a Democratic president. Our current Democratic president is trying to pass the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Now, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are shaking it up in their respective parties, saying “ENOUGH!” And that message is resonating well with voters. We want our side’s social issues, but more importantly, now more than ever, we want an economy that works for us. We want good, high-paying jobs; we want our dignity back. We want economic freedom, not economic slavery, and so far only Trump and Sanders are making that the focus of their campaigns.

Scarborough says:


“What we’re finding this year is, they’ll even support a guy who says Planned Parenthood is good if he comes with an economic approach that they feel that could actually help them more in the future.”

So, if populism is incredibly popular within the working class on the left and right — the largest voting group in America — it explains why Senators Marco Rubio’s campaign is circling the drain. Rubio still represents conservatism as it was “defined by the donor class, as defined by the wealthiest Republicans,” Scarborough says.

So perhaps on Friday, as our nation sends off Nancy Reagan, we can hold a joint funeral for Reaganomics too.

I think the Republican Party and their not so well thought out trickledown economics is over and done with, thank God.

But 35 plus years of damage has been done and it’s going to take a bit for us to catch up.

I thank God daily that finally some republican voters have figures out they have been stepping all over their own dicks for years, and more importantly they appear ready to do something about it.

Change is in the wind and change is long overdue, but it had to come to this it really did.

The democratic party is only slightly better and will see the next party purge take place here if they don't clean up their acts like now.

It's time for a long over due change and a better day for us ALL, feel the Bern

That is BS - stop spewing lies. It is not the top 1 tenth of one percent. It is the top 10% that will be affected and massively - especially small business owners.


I have to wonder if you understand how the economy works. When you tax the hell out of everyone and raise minimum wage to 15.00 what do you think will happen? Prices skyrocket.

Of course it is better for 100,000 families to buy 100,000 cars. As I said before, I agree with a lot of Bernie's ideas. His tax plan is just flat out horrid. If his plan was modest tax increases along with massive spending cuts I might even be able to get behind him.


Now that is funny. Everyone's wages will go up? LMAO. If you believe that you are the one that does not understand how the economy nor how business work. But, just for fun, let's all businesses give everyone a 100% raise (effectively what a 15.00 wage is). We'll be right where we are now, plus have a whole lot more people getting taxed at a much higher rate.

And then you repost that horrid opinion piece. Brilliant.

1st off Bernie's plan does NOT tax the hell out of everyone. It may be what you want to believe, but the facts just don't bear that out.

I don't want to write a book and I doubt it would help you anyway.

Basic (cause anything beyond that would just confuse you) economics is that the more people have to spend the bigger the bottom line for business.

What does that mean in relationship to a small business you ask, along with what will the increase in product or service look like?? Or if your connecting the dot's this is where you should be living.

If your a small business and you have to raise wages 5% that according to you using your logic means a decrease in the bottom line right.

Here is where it gets just a bit complicated (I'm trying me best to keep it simple so I don't lose you).

When those increases take place the 5% increase I spoke of earlier happens the volume of business goes up in most instances more then offsetting the increase in wages.

Now before you go wait a minute where does the increase in business come from. Well now you have a whole bunch more people that could afford or were unable to afford your products before now able to buy and pay for whatever it is your selling that's how.


What that means is the margins (the percentage they make) for a business decreases the increase in revenue (monies the business brings in) increases the margins are smaller but the increase in volume of business offsets and in most instances where higher minimum wages are already being paid the bottom line increases. All while maintaining or experiencing minimal increases in the price of the product or the service.

Let me know if you understand it?? If you don't I'll try to dummy it down more for you. The bottom line is what you think it would do is wrong, understanding economics can be complicated, more so then I think your allowing yourself to believe.

Your sky rocking Bernie taxes is a myth bro, you believe a lie and the numbers just don't bear out your thinking if your in the very top 10% of wage earners God bless you but I bet your not so your a republican that enjoys jumping up and down on your jewelry and the rich folks your fighting for laugh all the way to the bank at your expense is my bet.

I would really like to know why you give a rats ass about some fat cat that could care less if you eat tonight.

Trickle up economics!

Sort OF I guess you could say that with the big big big exception being that unlike a rich guy who could and likely won't buy the 100,000 cars poor folks or folks that need a new car will actually spend the money which helps the economy and even the fat cat guy, its a win win win for business for the individual the economy and the fat cat investor everyone wins....

Its trickle down from the bottom up the difference is the little guy gets a slice too.

Like I always say we all do better when we all do better.

Know what? I'm very tired of your condescending attitude which is why I really hate debating most liberals - they have the "I'm better than you" attitude even though they claim this love everyone belief system.

I'm not even going to bother with you anymore, if you could have a non-condescending attitude and not treat me like I'm an idiot I would probably enjoy the debate. I'm not going to resort to calling you stupid because I do not think you are - you just have different beliefs than I do, we'll leave it at that. Economics is not this cut and dry, black and white thing you make it out to be - there are different principals and beliefs. If it were there would never be any economic issues.

I am in the top 10% by quite a large margin, I could really care less if you believe me or not. Funny thing is, you started out with the .01 percent (or something like that) where I agree there is a problem. The top 1% isn't even the problem, it is the .01 or .001 - I will totally agree with that. Anyhow....

So, let's break down what I'm going to pay under the Bernsters plan. I'm rounding some of the numbers to make it easier, you know, because I'm stupid.
Tax rate: 40% increase of about 7%
Cap gains: 40% increase of 25%
New Employer
side health care tax 6.2% increase of 6.2%
New Employer
side med leave .2% increase of .2%
SS taxes applied
to >250k income 14.4% increase of 14.4%
Current SS/Medicaid
taxes (up to 120k) 14.4% same (at least as far as I can tell)
Some sort of
financial exchange
tax .05% increase of .05%

There is also a limit on itemized deductions that I have no idea what it is.

I know you'll harp on the 6.2% being better for medical, but for me it isn't. I pay about $280/month for my health insurance now and I like my plan. 6.2% of my income is a whole lot more than that. But I know, the greater good, right? I'm a horrible person, but luckily I'm to stupid to understand that. There are going to be some very unhappy charities if Bernie is elected, I know my donations will be going way down.

I'm OK with a modest increase in taxes. I've stated that many, many times so long as it comes along with massive government cuts to their spending in ALL aspects. I am much more of a libertarian than a republican, fiscal responsibility and stay the hell out of my business.

I used that number cause that was the one you put up if you recall. the actual people feeling the pinch are the top earners glad to here your one of those folks at least it makes sense to fight for something that you actually benefit from, unfortunately most of your republican brethren are just jumping up and down on their jewelry and from where I'm sitting the jumping up and down on their own jewelry is about to stop.

You may want to pack up and get out before Bernie gets in office after that your going to have to pay your share. I know that seems to bug the crap out of ya but that's how its going to go down. In case I don't get a chance to say good bye, see ya....

Can't work any worse than trickle down economics.

Well, since you didn't call me stupid, I'll respond. I don't have the kind of money to up and leave, nor would I really want to. I like it here, I love this country. There is nowhere else I would have had the opportunities to do what I've done.

Pay my share, lol. I already pay close to 100k in taxes per year, I think that is a good "share". This isn't going to hurt the .01 or .001 percent, the very ones that income inequality is all about. It is going to really hurt people that make a good living but aren't generationally wealthy. People like me. The ones with all of the money will still have all of the money.

At least I don't believe that it will go down with Sanders getting elected. He is to extreme and hopefully the American populace realizes this. I could be wrong, but I do not think a majority of America is ready for European-style socialism nor will they ever be.

What we really need is a strong moderate candidate that isn't D or R. Modest tax increases with a revamp of the tax system that makes sense and is simple for both individuals and businesses. Government spending needs to be drastically reduced (EVERYWHERE, nothing is sacred, especially the military) and social issues such as gay marriage and abortion need to be removed from politics. Legalization of marijuana is fine with me too so long as it isn't a monopoly or oligopoly controlling it. Corporate pandering and the obscene amounts of money that go into politics needs to be made illegal. Lobbyists need to be sent packing and made illegal as well.

I'm guessing my last paragraph is pretty close to your lines of thinking, but maybe not. I'm not some extreme right wing religious zealot - I hate religion in politics as well. It has no place in it. My number one priority in politics though is fiscal conservatism - everything else is a nice to have. My vote is cast for those that will let me keep my money, not take it away. That is where our differences lie I believe.

I always have to chuckle to myself when people cry about rich Republicans when by far most of the very rich people I know are Liberal Democrats.

I don't think you understand how hard it is for the bottom 90% bro empathy is a tough nut to crack.

I will say this though I wished you would take the time to learn about the Rockefellers and Henry Ford and their differences it truly is eye popping.

I mentioned this before I had my own business for a number off years I am not rich but I am comfortable and I learned early on that the more I shared the better I felt about myself and my employees always gave everything they had for me. I was always super happy for a guy working for me when he came to work driving a new car. It just did something for me I can't explain, but it was always way better then the feeling I got from getting one myself. Having while others go without never had much appeal to me. In that respect I guess I'm odd.

My childhood was poor as poor gets although I didn't come up via the welfare system it was about as close as you could get, so I have a ton of empathy for poor people cause I was one growing up.

I know giving a bit more will change very little if anything for me, and I have no desire to cheat the system or the country or the people that made financial security a reality for me.

I recognize how fortunate I was and have been and it humbles me. I understand why your fighting for your money but there are things way more important then money the well being of your fellow human beings be the top of that list.

Making life better for others and having the ability to do that but instead only looking out for yourself is ___________. You fill in the blank.

Oh and sorry to make you think your stupid I do think MOST republicans are stupid cause they vote for people that make their lives worse not better, in your case at least it makes sense even though I truly believe its selfish as it gets.

To give to others in order to help them is a good thing to do.

To have the Government confiscate your goods and give it to others to help them out is Tyranny.

See, this is where liberals lose me. They think conservatives are greedy and have no passion for others. You are wrong, very wrong, in this belief as far as a majority goes IMO.

I love to share my wealth as you do/did - as a CHOICE as to where it goes. The choice to distribute my wealth is not going to be a socialist I hope.

You should also research Henry Ford a bit more - the real reason he raised wages was to reduce turnover due to the horrible work environment. Ford was not a nice person, much worse than Trump.

You can think I'm selfish all you want. You have no idea how much time I volunteer nor how much money I donate to charities of my choosing or how much I help out those in need. I'm a one man show, but if my business ever grew you bet I'd share with those that worked for me. Again, there is that choice thing. Liberals for some reason trust that the government will make everything OK, however the track record speaks for itself.

I'm not sure your condescending attitude towards labels like "liberals" helps much , either.

Where am I being condescending? And I've never called anyone stupid. I probably shouldn't use blanket statements as I did, I agree with that.

Don't fall for their little PC quips thrown in here and there. The points you have been making are good ones.

Liberals can easily be spotted in a crowd, they are the ones who generously spend other peoples money to help the needy.

The rest of the public will reach for their own wallet to help.

Very easy to tell who on this board still subscribes to silly chain emails.

One of these days you will stop with the silly quips and explain to me what a chain email is.

Will I have to pay you for the info or as a Lib, will you just take my money?

Unless you consider the word "liberal" itself as condescending, I don't see your point.

Last time I looked it up it was more of a Political position than anything else. The opposite of Conservative.

Of course, I didn't take my PC pill today.

It's just as condescending as the term "conservative". Problem is, some liberals get offended by the term "liberal", but feel free to use conservative in a condescending way and expect that to be just fine.

You realize that half of that 90% makes over $35K a year.. and about 20% of them make over $60K a year?


I think anybody is stupid who is sitting around waiting for the government to solve all of their problems.

I would probably jump with glee and run out and vote for the first politician, any politician, who stood in a debate and said, "That's a good question, but that's not the governments problem to solve." I would probably pass out right on my couch if I ever actually heard a politician say that... I would probably also pass out if I ever heard a democrat provide a solution to any problem that didn't start with "We just need more money"...

I'm proud to be Conservative.

Cruz says Trump backers have 'relatively low information,' not very 'engaged'

Ted Cruz said in an interview ahead of next week’s critical primaries that Donald Trump’s supporters have “relatively low information” and are “not that engaged” – an oblique dig at the very voters Cruz is aggressively courting.

The Texas senator, though, said in the interview with CBN News that he’s winning over these voters as they “inform themselves” and learn more about Trump’s record. Explaining his comments, he referred to Trump’s past remarks about the “poorly educated” supporting him.

“Donald does well with voters who have relatively low information, who are not that engaged and who are angry and they see him as an angry voice,” Cruz told CBN. “Where we are beating him is when voters get more engaged and they get more informed. When they inform themselves, they realize his record. He’s what they’re angry at. He is the corruption, and if you want someone to stand up to Washington, the only one who has been doing so in this race is me.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/...ml?intcmp=hpbt1

If you and your 10%ers were doing what Reagan said you all would do when they instituted the trickle down economic policies that have so failed the American people we would not be having this conversation.

I can pretty well figure out where the money goes bro and it don't go to charity your full of it, if it did we again aren't having this conversation because everyone's needs would be being meant. The simple truth is your a cheap skate who is out for one thing and one thing only yourself.

If you ever take the time to look around the world you live in you would realize that many Americans have watched their wages go down, while the costs of everything they need just to survive outpaces their ability to make it.

If the worker can take a pay cut the wealthiest among us can and should be able to take a tax increase, and NOT whine about it.

if your who you say you are you can take a 7% hit and not miss a beat on the other hand if your not your just protecting people who don't care if you get dinner tonight.

You already gave him the simple truth about who he is.. you know who he is.. and arch and 40 and me... you have us all figured out. We are who the talking points say we are... Keep hating.

But only one of us is Awesome.

Now it's the 10%ers right? You just nailed what will happen once Sanders realizes that taxing the 1% won't be enough to implement his grand scheme. You know, those ultra-rich folks pulling in 120k per year with a mortgage and 2 or more kids. I think they should have to pay at least 50% more in taxes because they are so well off! That'll fix everything!


Wow, you got all of that out of my posts? You have no idea who I am or what I do as far as charities go. I give mostly to the Central Ohio Food Bank but probably not enough according to you. Yep, I'm a cheapskate. The anger is strong in this one.


I have certainly seen that. I do take the time to look around, which is why I select where my money goes as far as charities. You are right about one thing - if Bernie is elected, I will become a cheapskate at that point because I'll have nothing extra to give and still maintain my standard of living. But I guess that is selfish, so be it.


I already said I'd be OK with a MODEST tax increase. Bernies plan is far, far, far from modest. I've outlined it several times but you just won't look at it apparently based on your next comment....


I'd actually be OK if it was just 7%. To me, that is pretty modest - a little more than I would like, but so be it. In return for this increase though, I expect the government to cut 7% out of every budget. Every. Single. One.

You are seriously very angry. Swish made fun of me yesterday about foaming at the mouth over a statement I made about liberals. You sir are flat out rabid.

According to this 10% is 145k, not 120k: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

But I agree with you, as long as it's some minority that you're not in, you can convince people they are bad. 15% is 120k, so it should be easy to get people to feel that the 15% is the evil percent...