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I'd love to know the story on this one.....

If we could have had him for around what the Chiefs did, we screwed up IMO.


Alex Mack wanted to leave. Travis Benjamin, I can understand. He gets hurt a lot. Gipson got a big deal for a guy who also misses time and didn't play that great last year.

But Schwartz leaves me baffled. I wonder what the offer was that we pulled.........


It's too bad. The guy is durable and at around 6-7 million a year, mixed with some continuity on the O-Line for a new QB.... just seems it would have been worth it.


It's not like he was getting a Malik Jackson type of deal or anything. His contract with the Chiefs seemed quite reasonable to me.


Hope the FO knows what they're doing

I'm starting to wonder a little if the "old boys club" of the NFL - e.g. all the agents and "football guys" are blackballing us - except when they can use us to drive leverage with another team.


Aside from being unable to retain even one of our 4 primary players, we've completely struck out on EVERY other player we've gone after.... it's gotta be more than coincidence. I just can't decide if it's concerted design by others, or by ineptitude in our own house.

I'd like to pickup Reuben Randle. Unless this current FO values WRs like Farmer did.

Really? Denver won a SB and needs a QB. Clevelands 3-13 and the dumpster fire is getting bigger.

Well at least i can start fishing again. ...

Seriously? All Denver did was Tag a stud in Miller. Big deal.

Donkey Teeth just had it explode in his face. Jackson and Trevathan losses are bigger than all 4 of ours combined.

And the kicker after Manning retires 2 days ago? His replacement spits in Elways face. Denver is screwed at QB. Good for US. I'm shocked Osweiler didn't run to sign the 3 year 45M offer he got. Worked out for him though.

Even though I would like to have seen Schwartz back at RT, there's one thing I continue to relive. This OL has produced some of the worst rushing stats over the last 5+ years. Under different OL Coaches, schemes etc.

Final tally? The sensible way to fix that is replace the very core of the problem. The players.

Same goes for the defense and its perennial lack of any form of even a decent rush defense. The sensible way to fix that is replace the very core of the problem. The players.

Until we fix our LB problem, we will continue to suck at run defense.

Everyone loves the shiny new toy in free agency. One needs to look no further than the 5 teams who have spent the most on FA over the last 10 years and their collective winning %. It ain't pretty. And Cleveland? Yep, we're 6th.

Miami
Jax
Philly
Washington
Tampa
Browns

I applaud the discipline these guys showed on day one. The Schwartz thing is a little wild but oh well.

Let's see what happens today going forward.

RT Smith Cincy?
S Nelson Cincy?
WR Sanu Cincy?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/what_happened_with_mitchell_sc.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- On the first day of free agency, the Browns lost two-fifths of their offensive line in center Alex Mack and right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, their starting free safety in Tashaun Gipson, and their speedy receiver and returner in Travis Benjamin.

Along the way, the front office, led by Executive Vice President Sashi Brown, got hammered from coast-to-coast for botching the day. NFL Network analysts blasted them all afternoon, and words like "debacle" and "disaster" described them on social media. In addition to losing some of their own free agents, they also failed to land any of the big-name players they had been linked to, such as Bengals receiver Marvin Jones.

But Brown and coach Hue Jackson had made it clear that they wouldn't panic, that they'd be disciplined and that they'd build through the draft. Jackson went so far as to say "it will not be disappointing" if we lose the big-four free agents.

Here's a behind-the-scenes look at what happened on the challenging first day:

1. Mitchell Schwartz: The Browns made Schwartz an offer shortly before the NFL Combine that was far below what he felt he could get on the open market. His agent, Deryk Gilmore, indicated that the former second-round pick would test free agency. Schwartz' goal was about $8.5 million a year with the growing important of the position against the Von Millers of the world. When he opted to test the market, the Browns assumed he was gone and turned their attention to other players.

On Wednesday morning, a source told cleveland.com that Schwartz' best opportunity still appeared to be with Cleveland, and that he might be headed back there. But when they approached the Browns about the pre-combine offer, they were told it no longer stood. It may have been posturing on the Browns' part, but hopes of reaching a deal were apparently dashed when NFL Network reported that the Browns had pulled their offer.

Mitchell Schwartz wanted to return to the Browns, but the club rescinded its offer Wednesday, which was believed to be about $7.5 million a year.

Feeling Cleveland was no longer an option, Schwartz opted to sign a five-year, $33 million deal with the Chiefs, including about $15 million guaranteed. His brother, Geoff Schwartz, congratulated him on the deal after the "nonsense'' he endured during the day, presumably from the Browns, and NFL Network's Mike Silver reported that the Browns didn't negotiate in good faith.

Instead, they had moved on before Wednesday when it appeared Schwartz did the same.

The $6.6 million a year average makes him the second-highest paid right tackle in the NFL, but it's short of the payday he was hoping for. The Browns now have to hope that Austin Pasztor can step in, or they need to find a replacement. Bottom line: It probably didn't have to come to this. The Browns probably would've coughed up $6.6 million a year for Schwartz if things hadn't gone south on Wednesday.

2. Alex Mack: The Browns wanted to keep Mack, but only at the right price, and he knew he could make more on the open market. Peter King of Sports Illustrated reported that Mack will average $9.5 million a year, and that he turned down $500,000 more per year from the Browns to join Kyle Shanahan in Atlanta. I'm told that the $9.5 million represents the maximum value of the contract, with every incentive being hit and that the actual average is more like $9 million a year.

As for Mack taking less money to play for the Falcons, the Browns never actually made him a concrete offer after he voided the final three years of his contract (at $8 million a year) last week. Mack's representatives agreed to keep the Browns in the loop, but it was generally assumed that Mack, 30, would make more than the Browns wanted to pay. As for the Mack team, they found the Browns to be extremely professional and easy to work with and they look forward to doing business again in the future.

3. Travis Benjamin: The Browns wanted Benjamin back and made him an offer, but it wasn't close to what he could get in free agency. The Browns viewed him more as a situational player and returner, and didn't want to go as high as the Chargers did: four years, $24 million, $13 million guaranteed and $18 million over the first three years. The Chargers paid him like a No. 2 receiver, and will likely use him as such.

4. Tashaun Gipson: The Browns did not aggressively pursue Gipson and basically let him walk. He signed a five-year deal with the Jaguars worth up to $35.5 million, including all incentives. The Browns made him a multi-year offer before last season and he opted to play out his $2.356 million tender. He also skipped some voluntary workouts in an apparent contract statement, and then missed three games because of a sprained ankle. Gipson never seemed to recover from the contract issues of last year. The Browns will likely count on Jordan Poyer to replace him.

5. Marvin Jones: The Browns threw out a number for Jones, but it wasn't competitive and they weren't viewed as serious contenders. A source said if Jackson had really pushed it, the Browns may have gone after him harder. But Jackson probably knew the Browns wouldn't match what Jones got from the Lions: five years, $40 million including an $8 million signing bonus and $20 million guaranteed.

The Browns will have to keep looking for receivers, because they don't have nearly enough weapons. They can't count on Josh Gordon coming back from suspension to save the day, and they're not. If he's reinstated, they'll go from there. But hanging out with Johnny Manziel is not the way to make a good first impression.

Meh...

We won 3 games with these guys, we can win 3 games without them.

Maybe.

I think.

At least 2.

That's pretty optimistic. Try 2 and 14.

4-12 is a serious reach. I won't fall for the 4-win fool's gold again this year.

Heck, 2-14 may be a reach.

Cleveland Browns new regime off to 'horrible start' in free agency, says NFL Network Insider: National Perspective

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

P.S. Is it too early to predict what our record will be at the end of this coming season?

I don't understand pulling the offer to Schwartz. Somebody is going to have to explain that one to me. Even if some of the speculation is correct that he was using another team's offer to get more from the Browns, so what? That is what you do in negotiation. The proper response from the Browns would be, 'This is our offer-- take it or leave it.'

Good, solid tackles that don't miss games are actually pretty hard to find and are very important to a team's offense. Look at what Von Miller did in the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl. Schwartz pretty much shut him down when the Browns played the Broncos.

I'm torn between thinking whether this is a complete tear down/ rebuild or if its the byproduct of sucktitude over many years that have players jolting out of town the minute FA hits. Perhaps the latter will force the former to happen.

The Schwartz and Mack contracts seem to show they took less overall money to go elsewhere. I don't see Mack living out that contract and it's probably why guaranteed money was a contributing factor. That, and going to a team that has a better chance of winning.

The Gipson and Benjamin contracts could show that the team didn't want to meet that and would rather allocate resource to other players, FA or draft.

If the purge is in full effect, there could be some vet cuts/trades coming on. If that's the case, this team is gonna be the worst team in the NFL for awhile.

The way I understand it, I think we topped KC's contract and they still wanted more. We got upset and pulled it altogether. Admittedly, this is pulling insider information and looking over tweets. It may be entirely inaccurate.

Also, there are tweets suggesting that it may not have went down that way and what is being portrayed in the media is agent talk and trying to spin the situation.

Either way, something odd/bad/weird happened and it probably wasn't good.

j/c:

I just finished reading the entire thread. Man, I wish some of you would stop w/the "we went 3 and 13 with those guys...." nonsense. It's beyond ignorant.

There are 53 players on the roster. Not EVERYONE stinks if your team has a poor record and not EVERYONE is good if your team has a good record.

It's beyond dumb to make such a comment. Stop!

And this "we're building through the draft" nonsense is also annoying. You build through the draft to what...." Have them leave in free agency after a few years? Then, state the same thing and do it again.......and again..........and again.

But, you know what...........when your owner and top guys are more about marketing than winning football games.....it really doesn't matter. All you gotta do is fire coaches and talk about your "new" plan and the fans keep on buying what you're selling.

Fools Gold.

I read the Browns pulling the Schwartz deal as they felt he had no intention of taking it, and was only using it as leverage in his negotiations with other teams. If he doesn't want to be here, why help him get paid more elsewhere? Of course he's upset we took away his leverage. Agents are mad that we're not driving up the price for their players. I don't think any of them are really upset that the people they represent aren't ending up here. We're not throwing around silly money, oh no. We're not tying ourselves in to bad contracts with mediocre players, terrible. For free agency to actually be beneficial to a team, you have to be an attractive destination. Parity in the NFL is a joke. It only somewhat exists in the draft, but the teams that can attract good players at a discount are always in the advantage.

Oh, and I forgot to add this comment that was repeated several times over the course of the two threads:

"...you can't blame the Browns if the players don't want to be here..."

Really? Firing coaches and FO personnel over and over again is not a sign of a stable franchise. Losing double digit games year after year is not exactly the way to entice players to want to play here. Playing hardball w/your better players and then giving more money to guys like Bowe and T. Williams is not good business. Having a bad reputation of being hard to deal with because there are so many voices [chefs in the kitchen] does not help when dealing w/agents or making deals w/other teams.

You reap what you sow.

I agree. I wrote this in another thread last off-season:


The Browns can't do anything about the city, location, or any of that, but that's the least of their worries. Most of their problems are self-inflicted. The best the Browns can really do at this point is to turn around the culture, draft well, develop their own players, etc. It's going to take some time (this assumes the front office actually knows what they are doing, and you know what they say about that).

If Hue Jackson turns in a winning record this year, it would be one of the great coaching jobs in the history of sports.

This is exactly what I was talking to my dad about. I can't blame the players for wanting to leave. The constant carousel of coaches and staff. The endless losing. How can they trust the organization that things will change? I like Hue Jackson, but he has walked into a heck of a mess and he has his work cut for him. Hopefully, with the draft, the healing can start.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/BenAxelrod/status/707919966352252928

Quoted for truth.

To me, that makes it more likely to draft a QB. Pick him and sit him behind McCown. How can you get less impact out of a pick this season, while still offering upside down the road?

Sorry, I'm not shifting through over 40 pages of post, most of which I'm sure are colorful in nature.

But yeah, we retained Noone. We paid Noone for their hard work. We rewarded Noone for their hard work. Sashi Brown seems like a failure already to me.

It was already a pressure packed draft for this new staff of various elements, now - it's even more so. As of today, I predict an offense with a rookie QB that's going to struggle, struggle and struggle some more.

We are the 2nd worst team in the league, and you think we should reward player for their Hard Work?

LOL

from the article above...

1. Mitchell Schwartz: The Browns made Schwartz an offer shortly before the NFL Combine that was far below what he felt he could get on the open market. His agent, Deryk Gilmore, indicated that the former second-round pick would test free agency. Schwartz' goal was about $8.5 million a year with the growing important of the position against the Von Millers of the world. When he opted to test the market, the Browns assumed he was gone and turned their attention to other players.

On Wednesday morning, a source told cleveland.com that Schwartz' best opportunity still appeared to be with Cleveland, and that he might be headed back there. But when they approached the Browns about the pre-combine offer, they were told it no longer stood. It may have been posturing on the Browns' part, but hopes of reaching a deal were apparently dashed when NFL Network reported that the Browns had pulled their offer.

Yea, I wondered this very thing shortly after Haslam announced his new structure. I think it well get even uglier. If my earlier hunch was correct, Browns won't get any love. Sashi will struggle making trades and negating contracts. My opinion other teams' front office want Browns to fail. As you say "good ol'boys club" don't want anything or anyone tipping the apple cart.

I hope Haslam finally grown a pair and developed thinker skin. Sashi better have his calculator charged and programmed to improve draft picks. It is our only hope getting out of the cesspool.

Gipson, Benjamin, Mack and Schwartz are not the only players thinking "get the hell out of Cleveland" fast. Fans won't show any mercy and rightly so. Haslam brought this on himself. Quick fixing this mess left two hires ago.

It's the NFL. With the way the league is set up, everybody has good players (although between the last couple drafts and free agency periods, we are getting dangerously thin). The idea is to keep good players like Mack and Schwartz and then replace the bad players with better ones. Go forward instead of backward, if you will.

Yeah, because it's one or two players fault we've sucked....

/purple font

Raiders signed CB Smith from Chiefs

Raiders are building something tough

Yeah. I hadn't read that article. If true, it does change my opinion.

Don't take this the wrong way, but comments like this are among the most idiotic I see on this board.

Replacing players with less talented ones will help?

Who says we'll be replacing them with less talented ones?
We can replace all these guys, just have to hope it will be with even better ones

I'm sure he won't.

Well, they didn't make a difference also. How worst can we be without them?

To lay the foundation of a good team, we cannot start building a team overpaying nonperforming players, and rewarding players after such a bad season.

I don't care who they are, them team sucked bad, so demanding to be payed is not the way to go, its just rewarding players for a loser mentality.

Shame we didn't got rid of Mack last season...

Just draft a RT with #32 and we are good to go, find depth in later rounds or get some average lineman through FA.

This...Look, were starting over, not just band-aids. It has to be out with the old, in with the new, cause what we've been doing has not been working. Time to try something new.

I think you didn't understand my point.

I'm just seek of this entitlement some players have in such a bad team.

We shouldn't reward players for effort, we should reward them for performance.

Honestly, how worst can we be?

I'm absolutely disgusted with what we showed this year, so if FO has to cut all players, then be it.

The Browns were 3-13 with -154 point differential last season. There have been plenty of teams over the years that have been worse.

Truthfully I don't really care if the Browns go 1-15, 3-13, or 5-11. It's all the same to me. I want to see a winner and the way I would look at it is losing good players makes that chance go from slim to even slimmer.

As far as I know, there was no good reason to pull the offer to Schwartz. Re-signing him and using #32 at another position is a much better result than seeing him walk and drafting a player that probably won't even be as good as him. The main advantage in the latter case is cap savings, which genuinely does apply to some teams who are flush up against the cap but it does not apply to the Browns. The Browns have plenty of cap space and shouldn't be losing their own quality free agents. They should be able to keep their own and possibly attract some.