DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Senators Cite Nancy Reagan’s ‘Just Say No’ Efforts in Call to Complete Bipartisan Antidrug Bill

This is already going on. The county jails are filled with people waiting for beds at treatment centers, a lot of these people are on their 3rd,4th,5th chance.

It is all about self responsibility. What we suffer from is a generation of weak minded individuals.

When someone offers you Drugs, just say No! Take a stand for yourself and say NO! Use common sense for the health of your body and soundness of your mind by choosing NO!

When you say Yes, you have chosen to be a low life blood sucker of family and friends, people are killed getting you those drugs! You have chosen to be part of the problem instead of a good citizen fighting for good! Just say No, it ain't all that hard.

Seriously, I don't remember it that way, but Ok,, you say it's so, so, that's cool

It is not just me who is saying it.

The heroine epidemic. Is more about drug progression rather then just saying no.

Some one gets in a car accident, and get pain meds to deal with chronic pain. They start to the rely on for the pain meds to survive. Over time their body because physically addicted to the pain meds(opiads).

Now this person is addicted and can't get their pain meds from doctors, so they are buying them on the street which are very expensive. Their addiction costs them $100 a day Then one day someone says heroine will cost you $5 and is much stronger then the pain meds they are using... They are physically and mentally dependent on opiads so taking heroine is just graduating to the hard stuff.

Now you are heroine addict.

There are have been many stories regarding this exact scenario or teens using oxycodone as a party drug.

yea, i dunno why 40 thinks it's as simply as saying no to drugs.

Because 40 has spent his entire life simply just saying NO to...

-Adultry
-Drunkenness
-Spending more than he takes in.
-Vacations he could not afford.
-Expensive vehicles when all vehicles are worthless after 10 years.
-Drugs
-and so many other things he finds bad for himself and his family.

I call it being responsible for myself and my actions.

and the drugs that people get addicted to because of doctor prescribed?

you haven't taken that into account.

and you said that you smoke cigarettes. how come you didn't say no to that?

I have been on Opiates from time to time in my life but I always knew I had a responsibility to myself to get off of them as soon as possible.

You and others spend way too much time pointing around the room at whose fault your own problems are.

Because I liked them at the time. I chose to smoke because I wanted to. I quit when I wanted to. I am the only one responsible for any damage I did to myself.

Self Responsibility!

nobody is arguing self responsibility. at least not initially.

we are talking the grand scheme of things. is investing more in the drug problem, such as the antidrug bill in 1986, really gonna work?

thats the issue.

the problem with arguing morals when it comes to policy is that you're basing policy off of what you HOPE people would do.

we all HOPE heroin addicts won't become that in the first place, but we have to base policy off reality, not what we hope people would do.

The law worked until the prisons got full.

If you want to base it off reality, the reality is that some dumb arse decided that their pain was too much so they went out to become a heroin addict. Great choice!

You have the pain, you take prescribed Opiates for a while, you quit them and turn to prescribed Advil. If you still suffer, well it sucks to be you, deal with it, find alternatives like physical therapy and acupuncture and stuff.

DO NOT call your local drug dealer for heroin!!!

jeez

well, the law didn't work. having full prisons isn't something to be proud of.

as for the rest of your post.....ugh..

Yes, ugh, nobody to blame but ourselves!

What was it the wise poster once said?
Life is 10% stuff happening to you and 90% choices you make!

Nuff said.

Sometimes you need to look at the cost of your policies. We have more people in prison than any other nation in the world.

This is a direct cause of a policy.

You can't simply state some pie in the sky solution to an existing problem without considering the consequences of that solution.

Building more and more prisons while filling them faster than we can build them isn't a sustainable solution for the drug problem.

I agree with you. I have always wanted decriminalization.

The argument was whether Nancy was successful or not with her just say no initiative. She was, until the prisons got full because the turds in our Country will never change.

You do understand that a slogan like "Just say no" isn't any type of legislation don't you?

You do understand that it was a change in law that created a situation that caused drug offenders to be more heavily punished under the law, right?

You do understand that the two aren't directly connected, right?

As usual, you are the only one confused.

Can you explain how a public statement of asking people to "Just say no", changes drug laws?

It simply doesn't.

As was discussed throughout this Thread which you never took the time to read, Nan Nan's "Just say No" was an initiative, not a law, which was followed up and built upon and lead to drug use being halved.

so what you're saying is, Nancy started the initiative...but since it didn't do much...they decided to give it a boost by passing the antidrug law in 1986 to throw everybody who didn't follow nancy's initiative into jail?

ouch.

You posted this...

Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama, said in a statement on Sunday: “I often think it is too little appreciated that her historic leadership inspired millions of good citizens to rise up and take action to stop the catastrophic surging rate of drug abuse and addiction. It is a fact that her ‘Just say no’ initiative which spread all over the nation was the key to the effort. Many scoffed, but after sustained efforts drug use started downward to levels that were half what they were when she started.”

-Read, will ya.

he also failed to mention the drug bill that correlated with the downward spiral of drug use.

and with the history of Alabama, it's really hard for me to take anything they say seriously.

I can't help you guys if you don't read the stuff.

Oh we read the stuff. We just understand that what we read is often times leaving a lot of the story out. We understand it was the laws written that changed things, not what Nancy said.

And we realize that some people believe everything they read depending on who said it.

I dont believe that for one second unless someone is willing to admit that the reason it went down was do to MASSIVE incarceration rates...is this even an argument??

Man I know the lady just died and the media wants to blow smoke up peoples behinds and do puff pieces but my goodness at least be honest and admit the halved drug rate...if thats even true...wasnt due to the judges sticking everyone and their brothers in jail.

Should we even begin to question of morality of an "initiative" that says, if you alter your-own-personal consciousness with drugs, we will throw you in jail, before we argue about the success of said "initiative" or if we even want said "initiative" to be successful in the first place.

Ooh! Nice segue to my point CHS.. or guess my question: if you take the more libertarian view of putting whatever you want in to your own body because it's your own body... do I have any moral or ethical obligation to provide for their rehab? After all, it's none of my business what they do. So should it be any of my business when they begin to suffer the the consequences of their own choices?

Eh... I agree with you to the extent that you've laid out precisely the progression some addicts take. But at least in my experience, most of the heroin addicts I've come across (and it keeps increasing) didn't start out with legitimate pain issues.

As recently as 3 yrs ago it was extremely rare for us to come across heroin on the streets. At that time heroin was typically associated with the middle class suburban types as it would go for $50-60 a hit. Too expensive for the lower income crowds. Having said that, it still wasn't exactly affordable for the middle class folks either, and addicts would get together in groups of 3-5 and mutually support their habit by stealing and pawning whatever they could get their hands on.

Fast forward to about a year and half ago, and heroin started popping up all over the place. Places where you'd normally see people strung out on crack, heroin was now the drug of choice. I talked to one of our drugs and vice detectives about it. He told me that heroin started to get under cut by the prescription pain meds, they had become so prevalent and cheap that economics forced the price of heroin to come down. Now it's about $20 a hit. This is just my suspicion, but I think the U.S. has also experienced a flooding of the market with heroin too.

It's terrible too. I was dealing with a prostitute (IN my formal duties... not socially..) and her arm was all swollen and bandaged. She said it was infected after having used some bad heroin. I talked to her a little more about it and it turned out that it wasn't heroin... she was given Krokodil... that stuff will literally eat your flesh. 20 yrs old and she'll likely lose her arm if she doesn't die in the next 6 months.

But like I said, in my experience. I'm not saying my rod should be taken as Gospel

BTW, I LOVE to use the drug market as a perfect example of Capitalism in action. There is only 1 regulation: it's illegal to possess. Past that? none. Prices are set purely on the principles of supply and demand and the quality of your product. Prices regulate on their own and interestingly enough, no one hates on the higher up drug kingpins for getting filthy rich

About 3 years ago I read about the krokodil epidemic in Russia. That is some seriously nasty stuff and it's pretty alarming that you're seeing it over here now.

Google image search 'krokodil' to see its effects. WARNING: THERE ARE SOME VERY GRUESOME PICTURES. Those who have weak stomachs are advised not to look.

Well, I agree...

...The doctors could also help by not prescribing these pain pills like they are candy. That's probably best for the 'Medical Profession' thread but I don't care to bumb that one. Obviously not all doctors prescribe these things too lightly but overall I think it's fair to say that doing so isn't taken seriously enough.

I agree.
Just don't cop out by blaming the Doctors either because your health is YOUR business. If my Doc says he will cut off my arm to help my leg, I tell him to STUFF IT!
It is ultimately the decisions I make in life that determine my quality of life.

Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% the Choices you make.

I agree there are many different reasons why people are strung out on drugs, I just wanted to show why it is not as easy as just saying "No" to drugs.

Young people get caught up doing party drugs and just progress to harder stuff. It doesn't make any logical sense to me how someone can get addicted to heroine when there is so much data on the subject. However, someone told me another perspective and it stuck with me "Some ones pain maybe too much from them to handle." Then I thought what type of pain is so hard that a person wants to escape? First thing came to mind are sexual abuse, physical abuse, depression...

I would recommend a Shrink in that case. There is no excuse for choosing Drugs, that would be self destructive and irresponsible. Those who were abused have been thru enough of that crap.

Dude do you ever have a moment of self reflection ? Have you ever wondered why you are the way you are in life ( or at least what you represent yourself to be on here ) . I'd wager you have zero experience with drugs and or abuse of drugs or the causes that lead to addiction . You seem to view the world through a very fine pointed lense and even at that from a distance . You come across as isolated from the real world and who knows maybe you are . I often think you take an opposing view and just run with it without any real heart behind your arguments .

Addiction isnt a one size fits all category so every addict has a unique story as to why they became addicted . I don't expect you have room in that narrow view for such thoughts and for some reason I find that sad . I shouldn't because I don't really like the you that you portray on this board and suspect that I wouldn't like any version of you . Having said that I do find it a little sad that there are people like you out there with so little empathy or understanding . I see people every day complain about the pill heads or potheads and they shake their heads about what a waste of air these people are . All of this while sitting at the bar in their usual spots having their usual drinks complaining that they can't smoke in the bar anymore . See the hypocrisy? Of course the argument always reverts to " Well ,my vices ( never called addictions ) are legal . "

I do agree with you on one thing though and that is personal choices make all the difference . I have an addictive personality so I am very careful what I endulge in whether it be drugs or activities ( love adrenaline) because if once feels good then twice has to be better . I'm lucky that I recognize that about myself and so far I have minimized the potential damage ...so far.

Kinda hard to hire a shrink when you don't have any money. Last time I checked a shrink is a doctor and it will cost $60-$150 per hour.

How do I get Mental Health Services with No Money and No Insurance?

Here are some resources which may help you:

- The Partnership for Prescription Assistance has a Free Clinic Finder if you type in your zipcode you will find clinics in your area.

- The U.S. Department of Health and Human Resources also has a listing of free clinics in your area. All you have to do is plug in your geographic location. You may find that listing here.

- The National Alliance on Mental Illness may also provide information of where to find treatment or mental health care in your area. You may call them toll free at 1-800-950-NAMI or contact them through their web site which you may find here.

- Here is a listing of toll free numbers to call to mental health clinics across the country.

- Here is another listing of free clinics to search for in your geographic area.

- Find a Community Mental Health Center here.

- The federal government provides a Mental Health Services locator here.

http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/c/84292/70431/money-insurance/

People wish to recommend health care yet wish to deny many in our society that healthcare. Seems like an oxymoron to me.

I won't get into the politics of it because that simply isn't the point.

The point is, until people consider healthcare a human right that everyone should be able to have, instead of a big business to protect, nothing will ever change.

Instead of making excuses why we can't do it rather than finding ways we can do it, it stays political rather than solving an issue that most democratic societies have already conquered.

Not everyone is strong enough to seek out better solutions. Depression can be so debilitating that it eliminates the ability for the person who is afflicted yo look for other solutions. Depression literally depresses the person's ability to function properly.

Sexual abuse is incredibly damaging. I have known people who were raped, or otherwise sexually abused. One of my best friends when I was much younger was sexually abused by her boyfriend for years. No one ever know. Same thing with one of my cousins, She was physically abused, but no one knew. Sometimes people think that being strong is trying to hold up under these horrors all by yourself, and if you can't, then you are somehow weak.

Drugs provide an escape from the pain these situations create. It is an easy out. The person is numbed to the pain in their life, and they can "function and survive".

The ideal solution is counselling and therapy for those in abuse situations, but unfortunately not everyone is able to find counselling, not everyone can afford it, and not everyone is strong enough to answer the questions as to what they are seeking counselling for.

We should have the utmost empathy for those who have suffered through abusive situations, because nothing damages a person's self image like being physically or sexually abused.