DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

Coming from the guy who said this:

Sorry, I was mistaken. If you're more optimistic than you've been in 17yrs, you must be on one miracle of an antidepressant and are already receiving good care. I could use a dose or two of it myself after these past few days.

anyone thinking getting rid of mack, swhartz, and gipson makes our team better.....

depends on who you replace them with. what the goal is. short term or long term. ya it sucks but they gone now.

Except with Schwartz, it seems like he wanted to be here once he felt we had the best offer on the table.

What did you see to make you think Schwartz wanted to stay?

How I saw it. Browns made Schwartz an offer before FA started. Schwartz's agent knew the market price during legal tampering. Why didn't Schwartz sign? I think whatever deal they thought they had didn't materialize. Agent assumed Cleveland's offer was good because of need. If I were Schwartz, I'd be pissed at my agent.

In the short term, no, it doesn't. We will just have to see where it leads before we will know the final answer.

To me, it looks like the Browns don't place great value on offensive linemen. That isn't to say they don't want a solid unit, just saying they think they can acheive that with younger, cheaper players.

Browns players confused by what’s happening

Browns fans are confused by what the team is doing, or not doing, in free agency. They’re not alone.

Per a league source, Browns players also don’t know what’s going on in Cleveland.

Yes, they’ve added a couple of mid-level guys. But four key players have walked away this week (center Alex Mack, offensive lineman Mitchell Schwartz, receiver Travis Benjamin, and safety Tashaun Gipson), joining other key players who have left in recent years (defensive lineman Jabaal Sheard, cornerback Buster Skrine, linebacker D’Qwell Jackson, and defensive lineman Ahtyba Rubsin).

The approach as of this year runs opposite to what the players were told, the source said. Now, players are left to wonder whether the Browns will be making a move for quarterback Colin Kaepernick or anyone else. Along with the team’s fans.

That’s not to say they should be overspending for the sake of doing so, but they still need to field a team this year. And ideally the team will at least be mildly competitive. Otherwise, another new regime will eventually be doing something (or nothing) during some March in the future.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/11/browns-players-confused-by-whats-happening/

I think the Browns players have every right to be upset, particularly the vets. But, if this is a complete rebuild, that is sometimes the way it works. The game plan from one or two years ago is completely different from today.

These guys make millions of dollars....I think they'll be alright in the end. Hell, perhaps they'll be on other teams come September. It's certainly a possibility.

The players might feel better if they see a difference with the attitude of the coaches. If they see better organization, planning and how well the coaches teach. What goes on at team meetings at practice and just how things are done in general will make a big difference. Let's hope that positive change comes to fruition.

I think getting him at all goes against this supposed mission to tear down and rebuild through the draft. Why would the new front office use a high 3rd on anyone other than a new draft pick?

If he were here, I would have faith in Hue getting the most out of him. I would think that, in spite of our rabid fanbase, Kap would feel much less pressure than he would going to a premier team in the league that happens to be the reigning Superbowl champ.

However, he would have to hope that between the draft and the this massive free-agent haul we just made , that our o-line could at least be considered solid.

have to start somewhere. and creating holes by letting players walk just coming into there prime is just plain dumb....

“Browns players confused by what’s happening”

They have that in common with their front office and their owner.

Wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. This is what happens when you put a lawyer in charge of a football roster.

I'm not impressed with the front office at all. If they don't knock the draft out of the park they won't be around very long.

Why are we blaming the new front office for Farmer's mess?

If we wanted to keep them we should have re-signed them before they were scheduled to be free agents. Our "lawyer" had no leverage. Players want to win, who sees that here? Other teams have lots of money to spend, too. If the money is comparable and the choice comes down to where do you think you'll win more, I'd probably pick somewhere else, too. The NFL is a business, the players didn't pick the Browns, so I don't know why people expect loyalty.

We've shown we can attract players trying to get one last payday, but that's never helped with wins. I like that we haven't paid any old washed up players yet.

I agree with this sentiment, I just wish that in my mind I didn't emphasis "yet"...<sigh>

If the Browns are doing a complete rebuild and want to build through the draft, why do they want to give a draft pick for a 29 year old QB?

I think you are confused. Haslam and Sashi were part of the process last year, as well.

I remember. So far we haven't signed any other teams junk as you call it. We can't make our own FA's take our money. Playoff teams have our FA's interest because they are playoff teams.

I'm waiting to see how a draft turns out before throwing these guys under the bus.

They all went to Harvard, so I doubt they are idiots.

We didn't refuse to sign anyone, they refused to sign with us.

We've got to win for FA's to want to sign, but we're stuck in the tailspin of losing. We've got to hit on draft picks. Honestly, we're pretty screwed, but the draft is our best (maybe only) hope. We've got to stick with a staff and scheme long enough to get all the holes filled.

I'm waiting until they make a decent move or two before acting like they know what they are doing.



How do you know that? It keeps being repeated by the apologists, but it is not factual. And if they didn't want to sign w/the Browns........would it say more about all four guys or the Browns?

We were in negotiations with all of them, they all signed elsewhere- some for less money.

It says a lot about the Browns. I know we've been a mess of an organization. But knocking the "new" guys won't change the past. The new guys have proven nothing good or bad yet. It's too early, to me, to crucify them for not being able to convince players to come back to this dumpster fire. Let's wait till they make moves, rather than judge them for things they have almost no control over.

Get your head out of the sand.
We have now lost 6,that's 6,of our own FA's.That tells me all I need to know.
It sure looks like the Harvard boys are trying to do analytics with an abacus instead of a Cray.

My eyes are wide open. I know we are terrible, and virtually no one wants to play here. I don't blame the Harvard guys for that. I blame years of past incompetence and organizational disfunction. I blame running the new guys out of town before they have time to get anything done. I blame giving the coach week old road kill and expecting him to come up with filet mignon.

How does analytics have anything to do with players being offered contracts and signing else where? Its not like they didn't want the players to come back. The players wanted to go somewhere they thought they might actually make the playoffs, or have better weather, or simply have a better environment than is readily available in Cleveland.

When the newbie's are done we will not even own a Bus to throw players under ...

Can not believe how many have already given up on this regime.

Cry for patience and offer none.

All season the talk is how much talent the team is kacked and how a complete tear down was needed and yet when the tear down starts we do t want it.

Really we want change. It only if its the change we want

I do not think that any of us expected a team with some degree of talent to be torn down to the rafters, in order to start over from the bottom.

I will not be at all surprised when we cut or trade Joe Thomas, Josh McCown, Brian Hartline, Andrew Hawkins, Josh Gordon, (if he is reinstated by then) Joe Haden, Desmond Bryant, Paul Kruger, Donte Whitner, Gary Barnidge, John Greco, and Karlos Dansby. I see all of them as on the proverbial bubble right about now, because it seems to be quite apparent that this will be a complete tear down. Those with value, like Thomas, will be traded for whatever we can get for them. This team will be torn down to as low as possible, ostensibly to rebuild from the ground up.

It was unnecessary though. We have 10 draft picks in this draft. We have $50 million in cap space. We could have kept most of our free agents, if we had tried. It seems as though Gipson, Benjamin, and Schwartz all could have been brought back, except that we just gave up on doing so. Benjamin was excited about the possibility of signing a new deal right after Barnidge did. Now he says he is happy to move on. Why? I suspect that it's because once Sashi Browns took over, he decided that we just weren't going to worry about any of our free agents.

We have lost, from last year's team:
Alex Mack
Mitchell Schwartz
Travis Benjamin
Tashaun Gipson
Johnson Bademosi


And it appears that we will also lose Craig Robertson.

Those are 6 holes that have opened up on the roster.

We have a total of 10 picks in the coming draft. We already needed a QB, RB, WR, (or 2) TE, OLB, (or 2) CB, (or 2) and probably a solid DE. So bow, instead of having 10 holes to be filled with 10 picks, now we have 16 holes to be filled. (and many of them are large holes)

I was not that upset about Mack leaving. He is 30 years old, and it seems as though he wanted to leave. The rest, though? Man, we opened up some huge holes, that we simply did not have to. Schwartz is one of the top RT in the NFL, and is in his prime, He is durable, never having missed a game. He is the kind of guy a team goes out of their way to re-sign. Other players see how the better free agents are treated, and decide that they should get out while the getting is good too.

I really like the Hue Jackson hire, but man, it looks like he is going to have nothing to coach. A coach without good players doesn't coach for long.

I see this whole mess blowing up again in 2 years. This owner is not one who has a track record of being patient with a building project, let alone a complete tear down and rebuild from the floor up.

One other thing I will add. This new front office had better be really, really good at drafting players ..... because if they are only so-so, we're doomed to suffer yet another 5-7 years of crap football.

*Sigh* Only in Cleveland.

we have 13 draft picks. will not fill all in one draft class...even if we had only 5 hole to fill

[/quote] we have 13 draft picks. will not fill all in one draft class...even if we had only 5 hole to fill [/quote]

How do you come up with 13?

We have our 7. We have 3 compensatory picks. That's 10. Where did you get the other 3 from?

How do you come up with 13?

We have our 7. We have 3 compensatory picks. That's 10. Where did you get the other 3 from?[/quote] hmmm thought we had ten from the getgo? idk 10, 13 won't fill them all in one class...this is not a one year turn around more like 3-5

How do you come up with 13?

We have our 7. We have 3 compensatory picks. That's 10. Where did you get the other 3 from?[/quote]

We seem intent upon turning it into a 3-5 year project, that's for sure.

We need to get the QB right. However, even if we do that this year, we will also need to rebuild the OL, and add impact WRs. We also need to look really hard at the RB position. That's just on offense, and we opened holes on the OL and WR corps just this year, and did so needlessly. We had guys who wanted to stay, and the front office just thumbed their noses at them.

It does no good to develop players if we just drop them when their 2nd contract comes up.

I had zero confidence in this front office to start with, and I have less today. I didn't even think that was possible.

Wait. Who said that we needed a complete tear down. Btw--go talk to Vambo about that. LOL

I don't know how many people have given up on this regime, but the top two guys were actively involved in the past regime.

You really don't see similar trends to this year's moves and last year's moves.

Skrine, Sheard, Ruebin

T. Williams, Starks, draft choice

Haslam and Sashi had their hands all over last year's moves and they have their hands all over this year's moves.

What I can't believe is that how some of YOU aren't the least bit concerned about losing our good players and keeping trash like Gilber, T. Williams, and Haden.

I don't believe that you will find anybody who would dispute that. However, every new regime, to some degree, has their own 3-5 year plan. The problem is that none ever reach fruition as none of them last that long...

You said PURGE OF THE ROSTER Vers.

....Are they big hands or small hands? That's what really matters.

We're concerned, we just don't see what they could have done about it. Those players seemed set on leaving.

For those who believe this front office WAS READY for primetime, here is what is being said about the Browns on the west coast...

On the 49ers: Kaepernick trade all knotted up; here’s why

BY MATT BARROWS
mbarrows@sacbee.com
link


SANTA CLARA Colin Kaepernick’s career currently is at a standstill. Or perhaps a better way to put it is that the quarterback’s situation is snarled. After conversations with a number of people involved in the matter, here’s an attempt to unravel the knot and explain where things stand.

The Browns
Cleveland is offering the 49ers its third-round pick, which is the second pick in that round, No. 65 overall. If that proposal had been made a week ago, it’s entirely possible a Kaepernick-to-Cleveland deal would have been completed then.

After all, Kaepernick likes new Browns coach Hue Jackson. He is pushing his team to acquire Kaepernick, who would like to play for Jackson.

But somehow the 3-13 Browns managed to get worse since the start of free agency on Wednesday. They lost starting center Alex Mack, right tackle Mitchell Schwartz and wide receiver Travis Benjamin.

Kaepernick is willing to restructure his contract and take less money to get out of San Francisco. But after getting sacked 80 times in the last 1 1/2 seasons and having three surgeries since December, he’s wary of taking a lower-money deal on a bad team that is losing talent and that may also use its first-round pick, No. 2 overall, on a quarterback.

Had the Big Brain front office retain Mack and Swartz, the Kaepernick trade would have made more sense. It seems that Kaepernick felt the same way.

If you want to click the link, the story also talks about the Kaepernick trade situation with Denver and the Jets.

For those who believe QBs don't care about who is blocking for them, obviously, they do.

I think there is a lot of agent speak being played here. I'll bet Elway is attempting something as well.

In the Kapernick thread, I believe there was a report saying 9'ers approve the trade with the Browns but Kaepernick does not approve the new contract deal. It flips. 9'ers don't like the trade with Denver, but Kaep likes the Denver contract. Negotiations are at a standoff.

I also read Kaep's 2016 contract takes affect April 1. If he does nothing, it is in his best interest.