DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns should go hard after Kaepernick

Btw--------no one has answered this question yet. If the Browns really are purging the roster and want to build through the draft, why would they trade the 65th pick in the draft for a 29 year old qb who has regressed and has attitude problems?

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...art_river_index


Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' trade for Colin Kaepernick, losing free agents -- Terry Pluto

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- About getting a QB ...

Question: What do you think of the Browns acquiring Colin Kaepernick?

Answer: I don't know.

Q: What does that mean?

A: Lots of variables. Let's start with the price. The rumor is San Francisco wants a second-round pick for their unhappy quarterback.

Q: Your response?

A: I want to be 28 again and take my 60-year-old brain and experience with me. I want a lot of things.

The Browns might be willing to give up their third-round pick for Colin Kaepernick, but the trade is contingent upon restructuring his contract. He currently averages $19 million a year, big-time starter money.

Q: Meaning?

A: Tell the 49ers to get lost. The Browns' second-round pick is really at the end of the first round -- No. 32. Their third-round pick is No. 65. As I wrote earlier in the week, the Browns are piling up draft picks. I'm in no mood to deal a high one for Kaepernick.

Q: Why not?

A: He lost his job at mid-season to Blaine Gabbert. Not Joe Montana in his prime ... Blaine Gabbert. After the season, Kaepernick had surgery on his left shoulder (labrum tear), right thumb (torn ligaments) and left knee (arthroscopic). He's only 28, but that's a lot of work being done. Maybe the injuries are behind his decline. He's right-handed, so the left shoulder is not a major concern. They did the thumb and knee operations on the same day, so hopefully they are not serious. But this can't be ignored.

Q: Does Hue Jackson like Kaepernick?

A: This is where it becomes interesting. Jackson was Oakland's head coach in 2011 and really, really liked Kaepernick in the draft. The Nevada quarterback had outstanding seasons in 2012 and 2013. He went to a Super Bowl and two NFC Championship games. The last two years have been very rough for him.

Q: Your point?

A: Does Jackson think he can revive Kaepernick's career? Age is not a factor, as 28 is a QB's prime and many play effectively into their 30s. If Jackson is really sold on the guy and he looks good in the physical, there is a reason for the Browns to be interested.

Q: Should they trade for him?

A: It bothers me that the 49ers prefer Gabbert. I heard one suggestion of the Browns trading the No. 2 pick to the 49ers for Kaepernick and the 49ers' No. 7 pick. That price is too high.

Q: What if the Browns trade a middle-round pick, then take a QB at No. 2?

A: You could do that, but you create a mess with Kaepernick wondering if the team believes in him. I'm told that confidence problems haunted him the last two seasons. Can Jackson return him to the terrific prospect he was a few years ago?

Q: What would the analytics say?

A: In 2015, Profootballfocus.com and Football Outsiders ranked him near the bottom. Both had Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel rated higher. In ESPN's Total Quarterback Rating, he has been in a major decline since 2013. Last season, Kaepernick threw six TD passes compared to five interceptions, completing 59 percent of his passes. The 49ers were 2-6 when he started.

Q: What about his contract?

A: It runs through 2020. If the 49ers keep him on the roster on April 1, they have to pay him $11.9 million. If they waive him, he costs nothing. The 49ers say they will keep him on the roster, at the same time trying to trade him. The contract is one of those deals that looks huge when it was reportedly worth $126 million for six years when signed in 2014. But it's not.

Q: Should the Browns deal for him?

A: I have major doubts. I'd rather pick between Carson Wentz and Jared Goff and develop a quarterback. Josh McCown can start early in the season if needed. The only way I'd change my mind is if his physical came back with no concerns and Jackson was convinced he could revive Kaepernick's career. Even then, I would not trade a first- or second-round pick for him.

ABOUT FREE AGENCY AND THE DRAFT

1. The Browns received three compensatory draft picks, giving them 10, in 2014: 2, 32, 65, 99, 138, 141, 172, 173, 176, 233. They had five picks in the fifth round.

2. Before this draft, the Browns have had six compensatory picks since 1994, the lowest total in the NFL. Baltimore leads with 44. Adding picks is one of the reasons the Browns didn't mind losing some free agents this season. They may receive four extra picks in 2017.

Picks matter, not free agents

Cleveland Browns are far more worried about adding draft picks than free agents. They will have at least 10 picks in this draft, and it partly explains their approach to free agency.

3. In 2014, the Browns were big players in the free agent market. They signed Donte Whitner, Karlos Dansby, Paul McQuistan, Ben Tate, Jim Dray, Aaron Berry and Jim Leonhard.

4. Only two players are left on the roster two years later: Whitner and Dansby.

5. In 2014, the Browns lost Oniel Cousins, T.J. Ward and Shawn Lauvao and cut D'Qwell Jackson. Cousins is out of the NFL. Lauvao played three games for Washington in 2015, suffered a major ankle injury and was out for the year. Jackson (Indianapolis) and Ward (Denver) started in 2015.

6. In 2015, the Browns lost Jordan Cameron (Miami), Brian Hoyer (Houston), Ahtbya Rubin (Seattle), Buster Skrine (N.Y. Jets) and Jabaal Sheard (New England). All started at least occasionally.

7. The only free agents signed by the Browns in 2015 were Rob Housler and Tramon Williams. Josh McCown was added after he was cut by Tampa Bay.

8. So in 2015, the Browns started adding compensatory picks.

9. So far, they have lost five free agents: Alex Mack (Atlanta), Mitchell Schwartz (Kansas City), Johnson Bademosi (Detroit), Tashaun Gipson (Jacksonville) and Travis Benjamin (San Diego).

10. Some fans were upset because new V.P. of Football Operations Sashi Brown talked about wanting to reward his own players, yet didn't sign any. By the time he talked about that -- at the NFL Combine last month -- most players were determined to head to free agency. It was too late.

11. The only player I would have worked hard to retain was Schwartz, the 27-year-old right tackle who has never missed a snap. I like Mack, but he wanted a fresh start, regardless of what he says. Hard to blame him. The Browns need to identify some players they like and extend their contracts. They should start with guard Joel Bitonio.

12. Gipson's injury history worried me. If the Browns draft correctly, they can find a receiver/return man in the middle rounds like Benjamin. He was a fourth-round pick.

13. There is no doubt, free agency made the Browns worse. They are taking several steps back, hoping to draft well (and high) in the next few years. Then they will make moves in free agency. That's the plan.



I think this is the most insightful view of the Browns approach that I have seen. Not saying I agree with it, but to an extent it makes sense...

Report: 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick hesitant to take major pay cut to join Browns partly because of their key losses in free agency


By Nate Ulrich Beacon Journal sports writer
March 12, 2016 - 10:35 PM
link


Quarterback Colin Kaepernick is willing to restructure his contract and take a pay cut to escape the San Francisco 49ers, but he’s not willing to take as drastic a pay cut as the Browns have proposed partly because he’s not impressed with their approach to free agency.

That’s the picture the Sacramento Bee painted Saturday.

The Bee reported it’s one of the reasons a trade for Kaepernick hasn’t panned out yet.

The Browns are indeed in the Kaepernick sweepstakes. The Denver Broncos are reportedly his other main suitor, and the New York Jets are lurking in the background.

Although Kaepernick likes new Browns coach Hue Jackson, the Bee reported the team has become less appealing to him in recent days because of its key losses in free agency.

After all, the Browns lost 40 percent of their starting offensive line Wednesday with the departures of three-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack and right tackle Mitchell Schwartz. They also lost starting wide receiver Travis Benjamin, identified recently by new associate head coach-offense Pep Hamilton as one of the offense’s top playmakers.

The Browns have offered the 49ers their third-round pick (No. 65 overall) in this year’s draft for Kaepernick, according to the report, but they want to restructure his deal first. Therein lies the problem. In 2014, Kaepernick signed a six-year, $114 contract extension, which includes $61 million guaranteed.

The Bee reported Kaepernick is wary of taking a lower-money contract on a bad team and one that might use the second overall pick April 28 on a quarterback.

If the Super Bowl champion Denver Broncos approached Kaepernick with the same contract the Browns have offered him, he’d likely sign it without hesitation, according to the report.

The Broncos, though, haven’t satisfied the 49ers with their trade offer to the extent the Browns have. According to the report, they are believed to have pitched giving up their third-round pick (No. 94 overall), which is 29 spots lower than the Browns’ selection in the same round.

The 49ers are likely eyeing the Broncos’ second-round choice (No. 63 overall), which is two spots higher than the third-round selection the Browns have offered.
Meanwhile, the 49ers could hang onto Kaepernick despite his agents requesting a trade. They have repeatedly insisted they’re willing to keep him beyond April 1, when his $11.9 million base salary for 2016 would become guaranteed.

Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

I think you're giving the Browns way too much credit that there is a "roster purge" plan. I believe, quite simply, that these guys have no idea what they are doing. It started with Farmer and has continued with the new group. They are just in over their head.

Haslam committed the ultimate error when it comes to issue resolution. He was unhappy that his FO wasn't getting along. Instead of addressing the root cause of the issue, he has overreacted, blew it all up again and focused on nice guys who will get along with each other. Never mind they have no idea what they are doing. That's beside the point. At least they'll get along.

I know one thing for sure..I'll never say about the Browns again that it can't get worse. It always does.

Report: 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick hesitant to take major pay cut to join Browns partly because of their key losses in free agency

This isn't saying I am supporting us bringing Kap to the Browns, but I think QB is somewhat different in the age model from other positions. Me feeling is a QB's prime years start later and end later...say from age 26 to age 34. Kap is pretty much in the middle, still giving us another 4-5 prime years before a drop off in production.

Also, look at it this way, if we drafted a QB in round 3 and he played as well as Kap, would people be happy? Heck, people were happy about Charlie Frye for at least a year or two. Who is better? Kap or Chuck?

1. The Browns received three compensatory draft picks, giving them 10, in 2014: 2, 32, 65, 99, 138, 141, 172, 173, 176, 233. They had five picks in the fifth round.

2. Before this draft, the Browns have had six compensatory picks since 1994, the lowest total in the NFL. Baltimore leads with 44. Adding picks is one of the reasons the Browns didn't mind losing some free agents this season. They may receive four extra picks in 2017.

Picks matter, not free agents

This part, plus much of the rest of that section - it is sooo freaking flawed, I can't even fathom it.

They value compensatory picks more than their free agents?

They determined more than a month ago that "it was too late" to keep our guys?

Ummmm... no. Until they stop taking calls, it is not too late. If you upped your guaranteed money to Mack, you could have kept him. If you kept your contract on the table for Schwartz, you could have kept him.

I'll give them Benji & Gipson - they are eminently replaceable, even with Day 2 compensation picks, but not Mack & Schwartz.

Letting players who are Top5 at their position walk because you value compensation picks more than the player is utter stupidity.

Mack and Schwartz are soooo good that this sorry team won only 3 games last season. And you want me to cry that they are gone!!! The compensatory picks cannot produce any worse results.

Mack and Schwartz are soooo good that this sorry team won only 3 games last season. And you want me to cry that they are gone!!! The compensatory picks cannot produce any worse results.

dumbest comment so far.....

I think it is in the analysis. Value vs Replacement. At 3 - 13 the game winning value vs replacement is very low.

dumbest comment so far.....

Exactly. All 53 of those losers can go. Start over!

He may have topped himself w/this one:

This part, plus much of the rest of that section - it is sooo freaking flawed, I can't even fathom it.

They value compensatory picks more than their free agents?

They determined more than a month ago that "it was too late" to keep our guys?

Ummmm... no. Until they stop taking calls, it is not too late. If you upped your guaranteed money to Mack, you could have kept him. If you kept your contract on the table for Schwartz, you could have kept him.

I'll give them Benji & Gipson - they are eminently replaceable, even with Day 2 compensation picks, but not Mack & Schwartz.

Letting players who are Top5 at their position walk because you value compensation picks more than the player is utter stupidity.

So, Kaepernick wanted to play for Jackson. Then we wanted to reduce his salary so he didn't want to play for the Browns because we lost too much talent.

pure rumor stuff thats floating around but sounding like Kap is going to the Broncos and Mark Sanchez will be part of the trade along with a 3rd round pick. again pure rumor but it is interesting.

If we trade for him and he is bad, do we call him Kaeperpick or Kaeper[insert name for male genitalia]?

This is important.

he will go there and succeed and everyojne can talk about abut how Sashi let a g=franchise QB slip through his fingers.

Wanna put a wager on that, tex?

It's more likely that he will go there and fail and guys like you, Vambo, 32, Day, and the Holy Roller will say that Sashi was brilliant for not making that trade.

And you are the same freaking guys who were trashing guys like me for doubting Farmer last year. You never say anything like: "Hey Vers, sorry for all the insults. You were right." Instead, you take more shots when a new disagreement comes up.

Maybe you should stop calling out other posters and look in the mirror. It would be one thing if you guys were right some of the time, but you never are.

he will go there and succeed and everyojne can talk about abut how Sashi let a g=franchise QB slip through his fingers.

Mack and Schwartz are soooo good that this sorry team won only 3 games last season. And you want me to cry that they are gone!!! The compensatory picks cannot produce any worse results.

pure rumor stuff thats floating around but sounding like Kap is going to the Broncos and Mark Sanchez will be part of the trade along with a 3rd round pick. again pure rumor but it is interesting.