DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

Of course it matters. With the environment in Berea it certainly matters in regards to keeping players we have drafted to continue building a team.

If we keep going with the path we're on, we can never build a team. You can look at my sig. to see something that makes sense. Then you can look at their actions and see what doesn't.

Until the fans see what's going on, admit it and demand better, nothing will change.

What is the environment in Berea? I hear a ton of speculation, but no facts.. Anyone know for sure?

The environment we know that has existed and seems to continue is that the owner seems to not value stability. Players wonder if they stay, how many more coaches will they play under? They wonder how many of their team mates will hit the road because either they no longer wish to be there, or the FO currently in charge refuses to pay what the market will bear in order to keep them.

They know they've seen nothing built and nothing but a state of flux ever since they've been with this team. No stability to build a team up to be a contender.

Outside of that may be speculative, but there is enough evidence that even a blind squirrel can see this much is obvious.

I know you did not ask me but

Since this is the first year of these coaches and FO together, I don't think we can say we don't want to keep our drafted players. If were starting over, as it appears, then this is the 1st year. Now next year or two to three years down the road if were letting everybody walk, then yeah you can say we don't want to keep our guys. But in year one, this is the first year. A total rebuild is just that Were not keeping the old, were gutting the Team. So the former players are just that: Former. Like I said in 3-4 years, lets see where were at.

there were only two guys the O-line ones that really stood out to me and one chose to be else where the other not sure about. This FO has not been through one off season yet and I keep reading about how bad they are...sorry guys I just don't see it...does it suck we lost those two? Sure it does. is it a sign the new FO sucks...meh I'll wait til the off season is completed before I offer my opinion on that. I think, and this is just my opinion. it kind of seems like when we didn't sign the big name guys in FA (were told we would not do that anyway ahead of time) and then "lost" the two oline fellas...all of a sudden the FO sucks bad and they are crooks or some such thing or another. The other 3 we let go were not game changers. TG hurt too often and not as good as he was before..Benji I liked but we have speed and undersized guys to replace him and if Craig leaves I do believe he is replace rather easily.
We are barely a week into this new FO office, so why are we trying to lynch them before they get a fair shot to succeed?

anyway just thoughts from the dawgpound.

In past years, new Browns regimes talked about being patient, then spent lavishly on free agents. In his first year as GM, Ray Farmer signed four prominent players, two on the first day of free agency. Mike Lombardi and Joe Banner signed six. Eric Mangini brought in seven, four his ex-Jets. And Phil Savage in his first two seasons signed 15 free agents.

Success did not follow.

This regime's goal is to build through the draft, and stick to the plan. This regime will not overspend for free agents. Instead, it will build with as many draft picks as it can accumulate, save salary-cap room and then spend for a free agent when one or two players makes the difference between making or not making the playoffs.

Owner Jimmy Haslam himself admitted on the day of the season finale in 2015 that this would be a "several-year rebuild."

The Browns concede that all four of their free agents who left had talent and were good players, but they also ask: Would any one of them have made the difference between five and 10 wins?

The approach becomes problematic to fans paying premium prices for a team that might not be premium. The Browns say they will do all they can to win, and as they do, they will build a better team that fans can enjoy for years.

It's also problematic to veteran players such as Paul Kruger or Joe Thomas or Donte Whitner. As players get up in age, they realize they only have so many years left to win. While they understand the concepts behind building a team, they are interested in Sundays being the priority, not the long-term build.

Management understands, but also understands that every team needs some veteran leaders. How the Browns handle a veteran like Thomas, who could draw a first-round draft pick via trade, will be one of the more important decisions the team makes.

At present, the Browns look like a team that will struggle to match last season's victory total. Jackson no doubt will counter this claim.

But this organization will not veer from its plan. It uses the word "disciplined" for a reason.

“When I was going to the Browns,” DePodesta said, “I had met with the ownership, Jimmy and Dee Haslam, and they asked me, ‘What do you want out of an owner?’

"And I said, ‘Well, I’ll tell you what I don’t want.’ I said, ‘If you ever take your kids to an amusement park at Disneyland or whatever, they beg you to go on the big-daddy roller coaster. They beg you. You say, ‘Are you sure?’ They say, ‘Absolutely, I want to go on this thing.’

"So you wait in line for 45 minutes, it takes up a good chunk of your day, you finally get to the front of the line, they eyeball it, and they say, ‘Uh, I’m not getting on that thing. Not at all.’

"And that’s what happens to a lot of owners. They would say, ‘Hey, we want ‘Moneyball,’ we want this disciplined approach to what we’re doing.’

"But then when it comes time to making that hard decision, they say, ‘I don’t want any part of this.’

"I said, ‘I need someone who’s going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it’s not always going to be fun. There are going to be parts of the roller coaster that are going to be scary, that are going to be uncomfortable, but hopefully at the end of the ride when we get off, you’re going to want to say, let’s do that again.’"

Full article here
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...part-of-the-fun

sounds like a plan is in plave and they are not going to deviate from it...just food for thought.

Why only post part of the article?...

Here is the part 101 left out...

BTW...why didn't any of the past regimes work..those since 2012?

Haslam fired them..

Haslam has had the team since the 2012 season..2016 will be his 5th season, owning the team...Haslam is the one who has not been patient, not the fans.

Haslam is the one who said he would build via the draft and he knows part of that process is resigning your own free agents, especially those "who have performed well".



Paul DePodesta: Criticism of Browns' new ways 'part of the fun'

Paul DePodesta heard the rumblings while standing in line at the Indianapolis airport while leaving the NFL scouting combine.

The Cleveland Browns' new director of strategy wound up near folks from other teams who were not aware he could hear their conversation.

"They were talking trash about me and the Cleveland Browns," DePodesta said at last week's Sloan Analytics Conference at MIT, per Baseball America. "I said, 'All right, this is like 17 years ago in Oakland all over again.' That's part of the fun."

Little could put the Browns situation in perspective better.

Other teams are scratching their heads at the Browns' management structure, national media is ripping into them, fans are throwing their hands in the air and one free agent who departed (safety Tashaun Gipson) said he's as confused by the team's approach as the fans are.

But the Browns believe they are building a winning team by relying on the draft, and they will stick to their plan.

"I have a little experience in doing things that are unpopular," DePodesta said at Sloan.

In mentioning Oakland, he of course is referring to the "Moneyball" era when Billy Beane and he developed a new way to find players for a team with limited revenues. Bringing a "Moneyball" approach to the staid old NFL causes major tremors. Especially when the guy involved in guiding it spent 17 years in Major League Baseball, as DePodesta did. Even now, folks around the league will mutter that the Browns decisions are being made "by a baseball guy."

The chatter increased, though, with the departure of four starters on the first day of free agency, followed by the team signing no free agent of note.

The opener remains six months away, but already folks are criticizing the Browns as an organization that has taken no steps to improve a three-win team, an organization willing to accept losing in 2016 and perhaps even 2017.

The Browns say that no coach — especially Hue Jackson — accepts losing, and no player does, either. They simply will stick to their plan because they believe in the long run it will pay off.

Funny thing. Why would Sashi make such a statement as he did in my sig. then not keep any of them? You guys are making excuses for the big lie he told. Those were some of our best players. Nobody in the FO has said one word about a rebuild except the people trying to excuse what they've done so far. You don't gut the good talent you have.

Not sure how we can call people liars. We just started an are not pervious to the conversations. Imo Haslem is finally ready to give his staff a chance.
Of course time an actions will dictate the outcome.

I for one am ready to just be a fan because we can't change a damn thing.
Yep, hurt to see FA's losses but let's see the plan unfold.
I met HJ at senior bowl and he was infectious, I believe JH feels same way about him.

why? because didn't feel like copying a scrolling it all, hence the link to the full article. That and I really didn't feel like the first part was completely needed.
People bashing my team and the new fella.

You are such a great person. I wish I could be just like you.

BTW...why didn't any of the past regimes work..those since 2012?

I can tell you why the last one didn't work.
Pet and Farmer working against each other.
Both Pet and farmer working against the Sashi and the other fella.
Farmer sticking his nose in departments outside of his job duties. (texting about play calling or players). stuff like that is what they didn't make it or produce a winner

It doesn't matter?

Then why the hell did you make this comment?



Look......you aren't going to outsmart me, trick me, deceive me. If you wanna be a homer, fine. I have no problem w/that. But when you call posters out w/BS, I'm not just going to take it.

well first off there slick. not trying to do anything of the kind. But if that's the way you take it. then that's completely up to you. not going to try to change you or anyone else's point of view. Not my job... how do you know I cannot out smart you? do you know me on a personal level that way? trick you? have better things to do with my time. for the record didn't call anyone out just stated my opinion. If people get offended by that, then that is something else all together not my problem...I listen to other peoples opinions and offer my own in return. So not sure What BS you're talking about. You hate the FO and owner thats fine no problem with that...but when you say nonsense about me that is untrue I won't stand for and will call you out on it everytime.

Perfect...

Your call. LOL

why yes, yes it is thank you finally something we agree on. Glad you finally came around to see the light.

We lost four quality starters who we invested a lot of time developing. Benjamin, I don't mid too much because he seems fairly replaceable. Mack seemed like he wanted out and anyway, we have a first round pick lined up to replace him (and I hope he got a LOT better over the offseason. Gipson was a guy we found and played great, but I can live with him leaving. But Schwartz, I just don't understand why we couldn't bring him back. He was a solid part of a pretty good line. Cumulatively, it just feels like a huge fail. Hard to say we are better now than we were at the end of the season.

Going in......I didn't care one way or another if we kept Benji. No big loss.

However, when you combine him [our best WR last year] w/three of our better players [who were not part of the problem], than I look at it as an epic fail.

As we sit and speak I do not think we are better off now then at the end of the year either. But we are just getting started so I am curious as to what we field come preseason. hoping we might be better then, then we were last year. Hard not to be at this point imo.

j/c

Browns record in 1990 W: 3 L:13

Browns hired Bill Belichick in 1991. Record W: 6 L: 10

Belichick drafted Turner with the #2 pick, Ed King a #29, James Jones at #57, Pio Sagapulutele at #85, Dolphins traded 1990 seventh round pick (#178-Scott Galbraith) to Browns for 1991 fifth round pick (#113-Bryan Cox), Michael Jackson at #141, Packers traded Brent Fullwood to Browns for 1991 seventh round pick (#169-Frank Blevins), Frank Conover at #197, Raymond Irvin at #225, Browns traded Bob Buczkowski to Seahawks for 1991 ninth round pick (#239-Shawn Wiggins), Brian Greenfield at #252, Todd Jones at #280, and Elijah Austin at #308

I thought a little flash back was in order. Similarities is almost scary. Hmmm, image that, a highly ranked safety sitting at the top of this years draft. Big difference then and now Bernie Kosar. Belichick did waive Bernie in 1993. Fans assembled gallows after that move. It was a bit of struggle first two or three years. Belichick made unfavorable moves. It eventually turned out well...except for the move.

This has become an even bigger mess than the last bigger mess. And there are actually fans still defending this FO, and calling those of us that don't negative and telling us that we are having knee jerk reactions? LMAO!!

<<kiss>>

I'd marry you if you would have me.

Hahahaha. You sweet talker, you.

Fire them all let's start over, new coach and front office before the draft!

Hey, I gotta say........that is one of you more intelligent posts.

Cool Maybe you'll have one sometime!

I doubt it. I'm not nearly as football smart as all of you guys. But thanks for the thought.

A lot of folks are saying "GIve this front office a chance," and of course we have no choice. But it is possible to be totally and obviously incompetent right from the beginning and not get better. And the Schwartz negotiations were not some calculated strategy. They clearly screwed that up by taking an offer off the table and letting a quality starter leave for less.
Now, it is doubtful they could screw up this draft as badly as Farmer would, so there's that. But if anyone sees the beginnings of a master plan, please enlighten me.

Don't fall into the trap, Mac.

If my understanding is accurate, the offer was not "pulled" when he returned. The Browns offer had a time limit which had expired by the time he returned.

I've heard this only twice now. The fist time was a poster making the same claim, and now you.

Have you read this somewhere? Has anyone read this somewhere?

Yes, I did read this somewhere (and no, I do not recall where). I just don't pull this out of nowhere - it's not my style.

OK mac, what's your version of events?

Let's look at a theoretical situation:

Say you are a top executive at a business. You have an employee who is disgruntled. He has a long list of grievances, none of which relate to money. He turned down an offer to make him one of the highest paid employees at his position. Do you later give him the raise knowing that all of the things he was upset with most likely won't change, and he will still be disgruntled? How many people work harder after getting a big payday?

_____

They want to go somewhere that they see an easier path to victories, more power to them. I want players that want to win here as much as I do.

We need to change the culture here. If winning was so important to those players, why didn't they do more while they were here? I didn't see any of them demanding excellence of their teammates. I didn't really see any of them putting much effort into putting their "own time" into making the team better. I didn't see any player trying to put/keep Johnny on the right path beyond cheap words to the media.

They were good players and we'll probably miss them, but at the same time they were as much a part of the problem (one of the many problems) as they would be any solution.