DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

We've seen that act before.

They never said they were going to sign all their free agents this off season. There was no lie.

Stating a general principle is not the same as saying something is absolutely going to happen.I think they would have liked to have all four back. The four were less enthusiastic about the idea.

Yes, many of us who have been around the Browns for a long time have seen this act before. And most of us are not being fooled by the empty-promises made by Jimmy Haslam.

Take a look around, most of the guys making excuses for the Browns are younger guys. Their innocence is refreshing, but their lack of experience is blinding them.

You see, mac...........they haven't see this act before. We have.

Yes, many of us who have been around the Browns for a long time have seen this act before. And most of us are not being fooled by the empty-promises made by Jimmy Haslam.

Take a look around, most of the guys making excuses for the Browns are younger guys. Their innocence is refreshing, but their lack of experience is blinding them.

You see, mac...........they haven't see this act before. We have.

I try to be objective and not see shades of the past.

grimm...nice spin...

That was the message Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown delivered Thursday at the NFL Combine.

“It is important that we keep our own,” Brown said. “It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency.


Grimm, I'm sure you agree with Sashi as he spoke about retaining the "present" Browns free agents.

The past must be considered when trying to find true objectivity. To ignore it would be biased subjectivity.

Once again, Haslam and Sashi are not "new."

Lineman aren't sure things coming into the NFL. They often take time after joining the league.

We just drafted Erving and everyone knocks him. He was a first round lineman. You want to draft another just like him?

Why would we get rid of Thomas if we're trying to develop a QB?

Cleveland Browns: The Browns have been talked about way too much this month, with most of the discourse prematurely burying the Sashi Brown era. There's no denying that the Browns are less talented than they were a month ago. Center Alex Mack, offensive tackle Mitchell Schwartz and wide receiver Travis Benjamin were three of the best players on the team last year. Safety Tashaun Gipson was coming off a down year, but he played a lot of snaps for Cleveland.

The biggest loss was Mack. They wanted to keep him, and he chose to join his old coach Kyle Shanahan in Atlanta. The Browns oddly pulled their offer from Schwartz, raising fair questions about the front office. Free agency ghosts Dwayne Bowe and Karlos Dansby were let go. There's not a lot to get excited about on this roster, but making big noise early in free agency hasn't exactly worked for the Browns in the past. This is a complete rebuild. Let's give this some time. Grade: D+

link

We have yet to play a single game while this front office is in charge and implementing its agenda. I cannot comment on things I have no knowledge of. I could speculate on what I think would happen. That would lead me into being criticized for my speculation. I prefer to speak on things I either know or can see.

I can see to an extent your distrust of Haslam,

I don't see this as a "new front office"

deputy...on Schwartz...if you want a player, you don't play games and lie to him. What they did to Schwartz was BS and Sashi and Haslam have to answer for it...expect them to lie their asses off.

How long does it have to take to rebuild a football team. If you retain your core the improvements can be seen quicker.

The core of the team...the one unit that excelled when other areas of the team did not...was the offensive line. Together, the Oline earned the respect around the league for the performances they gave under very adverse conditions.

The Oline lost their primary coach before the season started. Andy Moeller was brought to Cleveland to help teach the zone blocking scheme in 2014...and due to his personal behavior he was one and done.

That 2014 offensive line, the only year the Browns had with Andy Moeller, improved from the 12th overall OL ranking in 2013 to the 6th ranked OL in 2014.

In 2015, without their primary Oline coach, the Oline improved their ranking from 6th to 5th, with pass blocking being their strength, ranked 3rd in the NFL. It was pointed out that the strength of the Browns offensive line was their two tackles, Thomas and Schwartz.

Instead of building upon the strength of the team, this front office decided to let 40% of their strength walk away. It is obvious that the IQ boys do not think in football terms.

With the Browns expected to draft a QB in the first round, the Browns front office decided to scuttle the offensive line. Smart move...???

It was reported that Colin Kaepernick was interested in playing for the Browns, until the news that the Browns IQ boys did not put a high priority on retaining Alex Mack or RT Mitch Schwartz. With 40% of the Browns offensive line gone...Kaepernick is no longer interested in playing for the Browns..per reports.

So, the Browns are expected to draft a QB and put him behind a suspect OLine. I wonder how that is going to work out?...as visions of Tim Couch flash through my brain. While the Harvard educated have not experienced the Tim Couch era in Cleveland...Browns fans have! The fans have an advantage when it comes to experience. We have seen rookie QB run for the lives.

All it takes is one missed assignment..one hit..and your prize rookie QB could be facing season ending surgery. So, retaining an experienced center and RT are not priorities for the Harvard educated.

If it had been me, I would have spent the money to keep the one area of team that has performed well in 2015, together...doing my best to protect whomever is the Browns QB.

If the Browns rookie QB ends up on IR, you can expect me to say...I told you so!

Wouldn't you like to hear some of his conversations with DePodesta and Brown on Monday mornings after the club gets boat-raced by the Steelers and Bengals next fall?

I suspect (as do many others) that Thomas is on the block. either this year or next.

We built one of the better OL in the NFL, and it gained us nothing. Without playmakers, we can have the best OL, and it won't matter.

you get some key pieces of your team for cheap

The only part of our FA season that bothers me so far is not signing Schwartz, but again, I wasn't in the room. Stop pretending that you were.

daman...really?...so let Joe Thomas walk and put our 2015 first round center in at LT...see how that works out for our QB.

DON’T BLAME O-LINE FOR BROWNS’ OFFENSIVE STRUGGLES

Ahh, I see how this works, Ytown makes a statement you don't agree with and you decide to bang me over the head with a club

dep...you don't have to be in the room to realize these educated idiots tried a bait and switch on Schwartz and lost. They put a contract on the table and when he returned before free agency started, they started playing games.

Might as well just forfeit the next 3-4 seasons, it will be less painful than watching this FO let our division rivals destroy us.

If they are thinking about drafting a QB and putting him behind a makeshift OLine with our 2nd teamers, we could see the second coming of the Tim Couch era.

What if Joe Thomas is so POed that he wants out..then what are the Big Brains gonna do?

...obviously I've lost my mind...

Cleveland Browns commit to full-scale rebuild under new regime

By Marc Sessler
Around the NFL Writer
Published: March 18, 2016 at 11:04 a.m.
Updated: March 18, 2016 at 02:33 p.m.

When the Browns cut Karlos Dansby on Wednesday, Cleveland's newfangled front office gave it straight to the 34-year-old linebacker.

"They respect me enough to let me know, 'We're going to rebuild this thing and we're going to do it with younger guys and we appreciate everything you've been able to do for the organization, but we can't do that to you,' " Dansby told The Plain Dealer.

During a hushed free agency period for the team, the front office, led by Harvard-educated lawyer Sashi Brown, VP of player personnel Andrew Berry and former MLB executive Paul DePodesta, stayed quiet as all four of the club's top free agents -- Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, Travis Benjamin and Tashaun Gipson -- bolted for greener pastures.

With a boatload of money to spend, Cleveland has spent next to nothing, adding low-octane names like Justin Tuggle, Alvin Bailey, Demario Davis and Rahim Moore. While opponents break the bank for high-priced talent, the Browns seemingly have gone AWOL.
Cleveland in the crosshairs

Browns fans don't want to hear it, but this team was never going to be a "winner" in free agency. Per a league source familiar with the club's plans, the new front office fully expected the public backlash and understands where the criticism comes from.

The current thinking in Cleveland is that the Browns, at their core, can't be fixed through free agency. While eager to develop a winner, the new regime is comprehensively determined to go young and reshape the roster, starting with the Browns' 10 selections in next month's draft.

If this all sounds familiar, it should. There have been so many iterations of Cleveland's front office over the past 17 years that no mantra could feel fresh. Former general manager Ray Farmer also squawked about building through the draft, only to waste a bounty of picks on all the wrong players.

Brown has been criticized by some for being in over his head, while DePodesta's presence has generated a waterfall of corny "Moneyball" quips. The idea that an innovative baseball executive could help an NFL team has been met both with curiosity and plenty of resistance, with DePodesta overhearing his doubters at last month's NFL Scouting Combine.

"I was standing right in front of them in line [at the airport] and I could hear them in back of me and they were talking trash about me and the Cleveland Browns," DePodesta said, per Baseball America. "I said, 'All right, this is like 17 years ago in Oakland all over again.' That's part of the fun."

Starting over -- again

When you double down on a dismal 3-13 season by giving birth to one of the NFL's most unusual front offices, you're asking for trouble.

Old-school NFL people don't buy what the Browns are doing and neither do plenty of pundits and fans. The new leadership, though, feels a sense of positive resolve, the source explained. If people within the industry are rooting against this to work, the Browns are comfortable with that.

While Jimmy Haslam is derided for repeatedly blowing up the machine during his short tenure, the Browns owner and his wife, Dee, are on board with a total refurbishing of the roster. Laugh if you must, but there is a feeling within team walls that a genuine plan has taken hold.

That extends to Cleveland's top asset: new head coach Hue Jackson, who was briefed during the interview process about plans to blow up the roster left behind by Farmer and former coach Mike Pettine. Jackson is part of the healthy discussions and decisions over what to do with players -- and how to acquire more talent. The team's current direction should be no surprise to a coach who has seen his share of rebuilds.

As the Browns angle to stabilize their foundation over the next two drafts, the sense inside the building is that this offseason will be the hardest for fans to endure. The cupboard isn't just bare, it's a black hole, leaving this latest redo as the biggest rebuilding challenge Cleveland has faced since the franchise's return to the NFL in 1999.
The way out

It starts at the top with Haslam. He must keep his finger off the trigger after firing three coaches and a cavalcade of front-office henchmen since buying the team in 2012.

It's not a shock to see this latest front office enduring growing pains, with some agents grumbling about "confusing" tactics and "mixed messages" during the first few days of free agency. The Browns, though, must try something different this time: Seeing it through. After landing one of the game's most innovative offensive minds in Jackson, it's time for Cleveland to pattern itself after the rest of the AFC North.

The process will be painful, requiring the absolute gutting of a roster filled with subpar talent. The Haslams, though, must trust Jackson, Brown, Berry and DePodesta to create an entirely new organization from A to Z.

"I think Jimmy and Dee really want to do this right," DePodesta said in January. "It was one of the things that made a big impression on me when I was meeting with them -- that they were genuine, they were earnest. They really want to get this right. They don't want to keep changing things, because they know ultimately that doesn't lead to success. I think there is going to be that mindset here."

Generations of Browns fans have no concept of what it feels like to watch competitive football on Sundays, but Cleveland simply needs to scan the rest of the division for a CliffsNotes version of how to dig out. Surrounded by three of today's most consistent franchises -- the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals -- why not follow suit and give this unorthodox band of team builders a long leash to do the job?
2016 NFL DRAFT

Looking elsewhere for hope

It was just two years ago that embattled Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie spoke openly about his prized offensive tackle, Jared Veldheer, choosing to leave Oakland in free agency, saying: "Losing Veldheer was a blow to me. He didn't want to come back. It wasn't about finances. The kid didn't want to play for the Raiders anymore, and I struggled with that."

Two promising drafts later, the Raiders have emerged as a sexy pick for the playoffs, with McKenzie saying of the free agency process: "It's good to see people call us and not always have to beg."

Losing key players, as Cleveland has done, is symptomatic of what the NFL's bottom feeders must endure. As ESPN's Adam Schefter noted last week: "Players treat the Browns organization like it's a college experience -- four years and done."

Changing that culture won't be easy. Every name we've mentioned above could be swept out of Cleveland if their "build-through-the-draft" philosophy churns out another two years of overly paid busts.

This remains a franchise with everything to prove and little to boast about. Understandably, plenty of people have given up on the Browns -- but they haven't given up on themselves. Rise or fall, this latest regime will be fascinating to watch.

Follow Marc Sessler on Twitter @MarcSesslerNFL.

Daman...obviously I've lost my mind ...I have no idea what I was thinking when I posted that.

I agree with what YT posted so I wasn't responding to him and you didn't make the comment.

Sorry Daman and to you too YT...my mistake