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Rise or fall, this latest regime will be fascinating to watch. Yes, it will. After the initial "shock" of the coaching change, the FO shakeup, and the FA period, I find myself myself excited for the possibilities these changes may bring about. My interest level is heightened, my optimism is ...rejuvenated.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
I suspect (as do many others) that Thomas is on the block. either this year or next.
daman...I believe Joe Thomas was waiting to see if Sashi and Haslam were telling the truth..that they were going to try to retain Mack and/or Schwartz.
I think we've been reading this all wrong. Yes, I know that Sashi said he want's to retain our young talent, but I'm not convinced he meant the talent we currently have (had at this point) With the piece I posted on this thread today, I'm thinking they are going to strip this thing to the bare bones and build it up with young talent, which is who I think he may be referring to when he says he wants to retain they young talent. I'm thinking they are talking about 4 and 5 years from this upcoming draft. Just a guess of course.. Look at the Reggie McKenzie comment in the article I posted a few above this one.(it's near the end) He couldn't get guys to stay, they simply didn't want to be Raiders. And he couldn't get FA to come. At least not the top FA. Again, just a thought.
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Browns fans don't want to hear it, but this team was never going to be a "winner" in free agency. Per a league source familiar with the club's plans, the new front office fully expected the public backlash and understands where the criticism comes from.
When hotshot Haslam bought the Browns in 2012, one of the points many observers made was "he was buying an old run down team"...he was buying a good young team that was only going to get better.
Well, it only took Fly J Jimmy "3" off seasons to destroy that good young team he bought in 2012.
I don't care who is hired in the front office, if Haslam doesn't keep his fingers out of the front office business, nothing is going to change.
Last edited by mac; 03/19/16 09:05 AM.
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In my world, I don't see problems so much as the opportunity for solutions. While not forgetting where we've been, I look forward to where we can go, what we can achieve. On our "journey", mistakes will be made, but hopefully not the ones of the past. An oversimplification, sure...
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I think we've been reading this all wrong. Yes, I know that Sashi said he want's to retain our young talent, but I'm not convinced he meant the talent we currently have (had at this point)
“It is important that we keep our own,” Brown said. “It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency. And it’s been tough to do that, largely because there’s been so much transition. So we talked to them about the continuity moving forward that we’re aiming for.”
link
If this is how our front office is going to talk publicly but do exactly the opposite, the new boys need to understand their actions speak volumes.
Obviously Sashi was never serious about signing Schwartz.
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In my world, I don't see problems so much as the opportunity for solutions. While not forgetting where we've been, I look forward to where we can go, what we can achieve. On our "journey", mistakes will be made, but hopefully not the ones of the past. An oversimplification, sure... I think you need to be aware of the past.. But to dwell on it as a precursor to the future seems stupid to me. Move forward, keep your eyes on the prize. That's my thinking.
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I think we've been reading this all wrong. Yes, I know that Sashi said he want's to retain our young talent, but I'm not convinced he meant the talent we currently have (had at this point)
“It is important that we keep our own,” Brown said. “It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency. And it’s been tough to do that, largely because there’s been so much transition. So we talked to them about the continuity moving forward that we’re aiming for.”
link
If this is how our front office is going to talk publicly but do exactly the opposite, the new boys need to understand their actions speak volumes.
Obviously Sashi was never serious about signing Schwartz.
Doesn't matter when he said it, it matters only what he was referring too. I suppose it could mean to keep a Mack or Schwartz, but most of us came to the conclusion that Mack was a gonner. I didn't expect Schwartz to be gone and he didn't have to be as it turns out. What they have now (trying to look at the bright side) is a boat load of cash, a pretty well respected HC and a hand picked Coordinator on D and a group of pretty decent O coaches. So, instead of complaining about what we don't have or what this guy said or that guy said, why not look at what we CAN do going forward. And I do think it's safe to say, next year, we'd be lucky to win 3 games. So keep that in mind, the prize isn't next season, it starts in the second year. Looking at it any other way isn't productive at all.
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/19/16 09:30 AM.
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Thanks, Deiesle. I'm 70 years of age, old enough to be a grandfather to some posters. Although I certainly expect to, I may not live long enough to see this successfully play out. However, I'm strapped in, and I'm going to enjoy the ride...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 03/19/16 09:34 AM.
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In my world, I don't see problems so much as the opportunity for solutions. While not forgetting where we've been, I look forward to where we can go, what we can achieve. On our "journey", mistakes will be made, but hopefully not the ones of the past. An oversimplification, sure... That's beautiful. Well said. However, I wasn't talking about our own personal lives. I agree w/you because we actually have control over our own personal lives. Instead, I was talking about why are you optimistic about the Browns when you don't have any control over their future. Get it? What have they done to make you think they are going to be successful?
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Sashi Brown Says Talks With Impending Free Agents Ongoing, Talks Have Not Broken Off
February 25, 2016 10:21 AM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan
INDIANAPOLIS (92.3 The Fan) – The Browns are trying to keep their own.
That was the message Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown delivered Thursday at the NFL Combine.
“It is important that we keep our own,” Brown said. “It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency. And it’s been tough to do that, largely because there’s been so much transition. So we talked to them about the continuity moving forward that we’re aiming for.”
The perception that the team is just fine letting safety Tashaun Gipson, right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, receiver Travis Benjamin and even 2-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack walk away is not accurate.
Contrary to reports, the Browns are very active in trying to retain who they’ve identified as key players before they hit the open market.
“We are currently in discussions with a number of our free agents,” Brown said. “There’s a possibility that we’ll have a few back. We won’t be panicked on any one player but there’s some guys that we feel can contribute for us in the fall and we absolutely want to do everything we can to see if we can reach a deal that works for them and us to keep them as Cleveland Browns.”
To that point, Brown met with Benjamin’s agent Wednesday night here in Indianapolis, debunking an NFL Network report earlier this week that talks had broken down and the receiver would hit free agency next month.
Those type of reports are part of the process, if anything to move negotiations forward but Brown admitted Thursday that he and the organization put themselves behind the eight-ball because of another coaching search and front office restructuring.
“I know much is reported and this is the season to report on things but part of the process is where are things and people want to know answers,” Brown said. “We’re behind 2-3 weeks because of the coaching search and I apologized to those guys.”
Brown as well as head coach Hue Jackson met with Mack last week and the Browns hope to renegotiate Mack’s contract before the March 4 deadline for him to opt out.
Brown also has had recent conversations with Schwartz’s camp as well as Tashaun Gipson and he hasn’t forgotten about Craig Robertson, Tank Carder and others.
“This time when a guy is on the fringe of free agency is not the ideal time to be negotiating these contracts,” Brown said. “We will, with earnest, continue to push forward and try to bring back several players. But moving forward we hope to identify these guys a lot earlier than we have in the past.”
Money shouldn’t be a problem for the Browns.
The NFL announced that the team carried the third-most cap space over from 2015 into the 2016 league year at just under $21 million and they will have over $38 million in cap room to work with starting on March 9.
link
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In my world, I don't see problems so much as the opportunity for solutions. While not forgetting where we've been, I look forward to where we can go, what we can achieve. On our "journey", mistakes will be made, but hopefully not the ones of the past. An oversimplification, sure...
..but, keeping your screw ups to a minimum means less problems. If "the boys" don't take their screwups seriously, this could be a much longer rebuild than anyone counted on.
It's easy to tear something down, but it can take "years" to develop raw talent into a dependable player. I'm not convinced these boys understand that yet.
Also, we must be honest about the experience level of those chosen for this rebuild...their football experience is near zero.
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In my world, I don't see problems so much as the opportunity for solutions. While not forgetting where we've been, I look forward to where we can go, what we can achieve. On our "journey", mistakes will be made, but hopefully not the ones of the past. An oversimplification, sure... That's beautiful. Well said. However, I wasn't talking about our own personal lives. I agree w/you because we actually have control over our own personal lives. Instead, I was talking about why are you optimistic about the Browns when you don't have any control over their future. Get it? What have they done to make you think they are going to be successful? We have been mired in the muck for a long time and the baseline from which to measure improvement is very low. We can't fall much further so the only ways to go are to remain the same, or to improve. I choose the latter due to the changes we have made and those I expect to come. The process is just started so I can't give you specifics, so simply call it blind faith if you will. I believe there is sincere commitment in the FO to succeed and I put my trust in them for, as you said, we have no control. I can't provide specifics as it's too early as I stated. Let's just say it's the way I'm "wired"...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I have always been in awe of people who have blind faith. Life is probably so simple for them.
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It's easy to tear something down, but it can take "years" to develop...[/color] Can't say I disagree with your post, mac. But I don't believe it's an easy thing to tear down as it's very difficult to know what to tear down, what to keep. And you're correct, they are inexperienced and will likely make some mistakes. However, the ones they do make I expect (trust) they are small, of little significance or at least easily correctable. Again, you're right - it is going to take some time...
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Those type of reports are part of the process, if anything to move negotiations forward ...
Don't over look this part of the article, mac...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 03/19/16 10:04 AM.
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it's very difficult to know what to tear down, what to keep As evidenced by letting Schwartz, Mack, and Gipson walk and by keeping trash like Gilber, T. Williams, and Carder. it is going to take some time...
And once again.........Jimmy found a way to continue his reign of deception.
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I have always been in awe of people who have blind faith. Life is probably so simple for them. Perhaps "blind faith" was too simplistic. In both my professional and personal lives, I have seen that issues generally turn out favorable when the right people are in place and earnest effort applied. I trust and believe this to be the case. And no, as is the case with most people, my life has been anything but simple...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 03/19/16 10:10 AM.
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I have always been in awe of people who have blind faith. I feel the same about people who walk around being miserable as hell over something that hasn't happened yet.. Being negative and down because they have no faith. Life is probably so simple for them. Simple ? Probably less stressful happier & healthier
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I posted in one of the other forums last week about both people being right and neither being wrong. How is it that two people will go through same experience, but interpret it so differently?
I'm sure that a trained psychologist would have a much more satisfying answer, but since I find the question fascinating I'll chime in anyway.
It's actually fairly simple, as I see it. We interpret a current sequence of events in the context of past events. Meaning that we bring our personal history to every new situation. It's this personal history that helps us create meaning for ourselves. Since no two people can have identical life experiences (even identical twins can't have completely identical life experiences), no two people will have the same personal history. As a result, their basis for creating meaning will differ.
Take an overly simple example: two people fall off a boat into the water. On the face of it, that's two people going through the same experience, right? But what if one of them doesn't know how to swim? To that person, it will be recorded as "the time I almost drowned," while to the other person it might be "that time I fell off a boat and had to swim back to shore." For every massive difference between them like that, there are many more smaller differences, each of which influences how an experience is recorded. Even emotional states influence interpretation.
Basically, there's no way for two individuals to be identical enough to interpret the same sequence of events in the the same way. The differences may be small or they may be huge, but they will necessarily exist. I Think everybody posting on this thread is right. We have those of you who can swim. You just swam to shore after last season when the boat sank, and your hopeful that we can just build a new boat and get back out there. Those who can't swim who have been hurt over and over and who now don't trust the boat, the boats owner, and the guys who made the boat. Those are the folks that are down on the team and everything about the team. Then there are a lot of folks like me who are to old and tired to swim, but old enough to know we could fall out of the boat could get capsized. We wore life jackets when we got on the boat so that no matter what we would survive. We have the patients to sit in the boat and wait for the story to play out knowing full well anything can happen so we are prepared either way, and we can understand both of the others guys feelings as we feel the same way as both of ya.
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Those type of reports are part of the process, if anything to move negotiations forward ...
Don't over look this part of the article, mac...
...I'm sure you will agree.
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Those who can't swim who have been hurt over and over and who now don't trust the boat, the boats owner, and the guys who made the boat. Those are the folks that are down on the team and everything about the team.
The folks I do not trust are the owner who took a good young team that he purchased in 2012 and in 3 off seasons destroyed that team and any potential they had....and his front office people.
Now that owner wants a do over, with a management team that has very little NFL experience. We have already seen them in action and as the title of this thread says, it's obvious they are not ready for prime time.
There is nothing to indicate that the latest Haslam plan has a chance in hell to work. So far the Big Brains have confirmed my suspicion, that they are not ready for prime time.
Last edited by mac; 03/19/16 10:44 AM.
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GM, we are Buds and I appreciate your take on things. I just have to say that the resume and lack of football experience from a personnel standpoint give people who look at it, very little to base a positive thought process on.
And I believe those who say that it causes people to be miserable or that they are being negative is short sighted. I'm not miserable at all. I've seen this team be put in the hands of the wrong people over and over again. This isn't some new phenomenon.
There is zero in Sashi's resume to indicate he has a clue how to build a team. Baseball and football are so far apart from each other that to try to say playing money ball in football will work I believe is a reach of epic proportions. I have faith in a lot of things, but this is so far out of left field, it's impossible for me to pin any faith on this process.
Trust is earned and built, not given. And so far on the trust scale, this new regime is in the negative column.
I guess the sad part in all of this is that these conditions I believe don't make me miserable at all. It's what I've been taught to expect from being a Browns fan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Those who can't swim who have been hurt over and over and who now don't trust the boat, the boats owner, and the guys who made the boat. Those are the folks that are down on the team and everything about the team.
The folks I do not trust are the owner who took a good young team that he purchased in 2012 and in 3 off seasons destroyed that team and any potential they had....and his front office people.
Now that owner wants a do over, with a management team that has very little NFL experience. We have already seen them in action and as the title of this thread says, it's obvious they are not ready for prime time.
There is nothing to indicate that the latest Haslam plan has a chance in hell to work. So far the Big Brains have confirmed my suspicion, that they are not ready for prime time. has anything worked since the team came back to Cleveland? Lerner didn't exactly save the day either...idk I'm willing to see how this plays out. Hopefully they stick to the plan this time around
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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A little something I researched..
Sashi Brown born................May 15, 1976.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=23
.............................................age in 2016=40
Paul DePodesta born ............Dec. 16, 1972.....
...age when Browns returned to NFL in1999=27
...........................................age in 2016=44
Andrew Berry ........................born in 1988.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=11yrs
..............................................age in 2016=28
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There is zero in Sashi's resume to indicate he has a clue how to build a team. The Walrus had a resume that spoke of building a Championship. I have faith in a lot of things, but this is so far out of left field, Is this baseball talk ? Trust is earned and built, not given. And so far on the trust scale, this new regime is in the negative column. Why is it in the negative ? Are you basing an outcome from previous outcome, that has nothing to do with a present situation. Would it not be wise to take an approach that would allow a situation to unfold before it is deemed to fail or succeed ? I guess the sad part in all of this is that these conditions I believe don't make me miserable at all. You sure about that ? 
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A little something I researched..
Sashi Brown born................May 15, 1976.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=23
.............................................age in 2016=40
Paul DePodesta born ............Dec. 16, 1972.....
...age when Browns returned to NFL in1999=27
...........................................age in 2016=44
Andrew Berry ........................born in 1988.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=11yrs
..............................................age in 2016=28 Maybe I should keep staying away from this board...This makes no damn sense to me at all
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A little something I researched..
Sashi Brown born................May 15, 1976.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=23
.............................................age in 2016=40
Paul DePodesta born ............Dec. 16, 1972.....
...age when Browns returned to NFL in1999=27
...........................................age in 2016=44
Andrew Berry ........................born in 1988.....
....age when Browns returned to NFL in 1999=11yrs
..............................................age in 2016=28 Maybe I should keep staying away from this board...This makes no damn sense to me at all It's macalytics.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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...also known as "reality"...
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All you had to do, if you have a point here at all, was give their birth dates. The rest is easy math to do in your head.
And you're right, facts are reality. To what end it matters is open for debate.
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All you had to do, if you have a point here at all, was give their birth dates. The rest is easy math to do in your head.
And you're right, facts are reality. To what end it matters is open for debate.
Dude, do you nag your wife this much?
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It wasn't much research and very little information.
I'd have liked to see you state your point, if you have one.
Dang... there I go telling you how to post, again.
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It wasn't much research and very little information.
I'd have liked to see you state your point, if you have one.
Dang... there I go telling you how to post, again. Yeah, perhaps you should stop? You completely let this one go: has anything worked since the team came back to Cleveland? Lerner didn't exactly save the day either...idk I'm willing to see how this plays out. Hopefully they stick to the plan this time around
_________________________ Gee, that was enlightening and new. Yet, you rip mac for looking at something from another angle. Amazing how perception clouds reality w/folks, isn't it?
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And I believe those who say that it causes people to be miserable or that they are being negative is short sighted Yep. They can't really debate w/logic, so they resort to attacking the character of people who don't agree w/them. Just this past summer, we were called Negative Nancy's, miserable, clueless, haters, agenda posters, etc because we questioned Farmer and how good the Browns would be in the upcoming season. Now, those same people who "choose to live their lives so positively" are now trashing both Farmer and last year's roster. It's freaking hilarious. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
It wasn't much research and very little information.
I'd have liked to see you state your point, if you have one.
Dang... there I go telling you how to post, again. Yeah, perhaps you should stop? You completely let this one go: has anything worked since the team came back to Cleveland? Lerner didn't exactly save the day either...idk I'm willing to see how this plays out. Hopefully they stick to the plan this time around
_________________________ Gee, that was enlightening and new. Yet, you rip mac for looking at something from another angle. Amazing how perception clouds reality w/folks, isn't it? I will, as you do, as everyone does, completely let a lot of things go. I can't have and don't have and feel no need to have a response to everything. Why is it you don't respond to each and every post of which you don't agree? I tried to get mac to point out by posting birthdays what refreshing new angle he was aiming at. You see, I'm so dense I don't see a connection to anything relevant in it. Perhaps you could explain it to me.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674 |
It wasn't much research and very little information.
I'd have liked to see you state your point, if you have one.
Dang... there I go telling you how to post, again. Yeah, perhaps you should stop? You completely let this one go: has anything worked since the team came back to Cleveland? Lerner didn't exactly save the day either...idk I'm willing to see how this plays out. Hopefully they stick to the plan this time around
_________________________ Gee, that was enlightening and new. Yet, you rip mac for looking at something from another angle. Amazing how perception clouds reality w/folks, isn't it? my post was not meant to be enlightening...as is a good chunk of yours is not enlightening. is my opinion supposed to be enlightening? nope not all of 'em...
Last edited by dawgpound101; 03/19/16 08:47 PM.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313 |
OK Vers here's my thought's. Doesn't matter their thought's on their choice of qb. If someone jump's us and takes our #1 choice if that is a qb do they pick the second qb or go BPA. That will tell me a lot. We need a qb and edge rusher. If someone jump's us for a qb that is our #1 then you take the #1 edge rusher. We need both.. You take the #1. Take it and don't look back.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,914
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,914 |
OK Vers here's my thought's. Doesn't matter their thought's on their choice of qb. If someone jump's us and takes our #1 choice if that is a qb do they pick the second qb or go BPA. That will tell me a lot. We need a qb and edge rusher. If someone jump's us for a qb that is our #1 then you take the #1 edge rusher. We need both.. You take the #1. Take it and don't look back. What you say is completely invalidated because you only have 1460 posts. Just kidding and having a little fun at your expense 
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,134
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
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Rise or fall, this latest regime will be fascinating to watch. Yes, it will. After the initial "shock" of the coaching change, the FO shakeup, and the FA period, I find myself myself excited for the possibilities these changes may bring about. My interest level is heightened, my optimism is ...rejuvenated. I don't find anything fascinating about a potential 0-16. I gave up blind faith in this organization years ago. They want to prove they are the real deal, then win games. Given the terrible history of drafting, building through the draft doesn't give me much hope.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front
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