DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

I have had, at one point or another, some degree of hope and faith in the various front offices we have paraded through Berea over the years. I really like the head coach we hired this time around, but I have no faith in the front office itself. In some weird way, that lack of faith is comforting, because I expect them to be lousy ...... so they cannot possibly let me down.

Who knows, maybe it's darkest before the dawn? Then again, it could just mean that we're about to get sucker punched yet again.

I want to believe this regime will be different, I really do. But so far, the evidence shows they are clueless. The way the front office is built now, you have to figure Hue has the ultimate say in the draft. That's good; he's the only true football man. The others are not talent evaluators so much as negotiators, free agent scouts and big-picture analytics guys (I'm not dismissing that, but I don't know yet what it exactly means).
Given that this is Sashi's role, he made no significant signings (that would be OK, I am not looking to be like Miami), and unequivically screwed up the Schwartz deal. There is just no doubt that he blew that one. There was no reason to let a solid vet like that go for less than we were willing to pay him.
So even if we draft fairly well, credit for that, I think, will go to Hue and not these geniuses. So what have they done to make this team better?

You said this in another thread and I tried correcting you. Maybe you missed what I said. If you simply don't believe me, try researching it. Sashi addresses the roles of many of the guys w/the Browns, including his own, the scouting department, and Hue's.

I think your jumping the gun on this one. None of us know how that went down. There's stories out there that say MS's agent screwed the pooch by trying to play us against any other team for more money. If he only wanted the $$ and was willing to leave for more then why would we want him? Were looking for players who want to be here, and that more than likely means draft. We've tried to "buy" our way to a good Team, how many times now? It really is time to start from the ground up and do this right. Lets get it on.

Excellent way to word that.

I think it is pretty clear, Sashi won't be alone in this.
I think in a tie breaker, he makes the decision. I don't think he plans on running rough shod over everybody.

And your conclusion on what all that means? I think I've stated mine.

My conclusion is that Hue is not in charge of the draft which the original poster claimed. I also disagree that he will have the final say in the draft, which is what tab claimed.

I agree that Hue is not in charge of the draft.

And after I thought about it while I was changing my pads and roters, (just got back), Hue may not be the final say to Sashi. I was overlooking Berry, the VP of Player Personnel, who probably has the final say to Sashi.

I have been dubious about how decisions were reached with Pett turning it into a committee project. Lot of pride in the process, the input, the groupthink and groupspeak; it still stunk on the field, and there are no style points in pigskin. Bad judgment or compromise or too many cooks spoil the broth, whatever caused the stench should be avoided.

If you don't change and adapt, you die. Little changed last year from a bunch of flawed decisions on the field, and especially the D never seemed to eliminate issues or get coached out of problems.

One man getting input and deciding may be better. Depends on the man and if the choices work well. But I have no interest in a bunch of more of the same from last year myself.

Not sure whom will have the final say to Sashi...Might be this, Berry will have his say, Hue will have his input to Sashi. Then Sashi makes the call...or something like that I hope.

at this point, what's the difference.

Sashi has said the final decision is his. I would assume, and I think it's a safe assumption, that he'll use the talent that is around him to help form an opinion. Something every person in that role on every team probably does.

To me that means Jackson and Berry and probably the other coaches as well as the scouts and most likely what he hears at any NFL meeting, Combines and Pro-Days.

So what?

no difference just putting my take on it is all.

I do not know what point Mac was trying to convey here,but here's my take;
The FO is very young,not necessarily a bad think,with a cumulative 0,that's ziltch,nada,none,years experience.That is a very bad thing.
I would think it will take these guys at minimum 2-3 years to figure out how best to perform their jobs,and if old trigger finger can hold his temper that long,we might be able to start to build a winning team at that point.
In reality,this group will be gone in two years time,and someone else will buffalo Haslam into believing that he has the right stuff to turn Jimmy's miserable POS team into a winner.

Actually, Andrew Berry has good experience in the NFL with the Colts.



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14662039/cleveland-browns-hiring-andrew-berry-top-personnel-man

I stand corrected.
I should have said zero experience in their current positions.
My major concern is that these guys have no clue how to perform their jobs,and there is no one around with experience to teach them.

Sashi was in Jacksonville as General Counsel for 8 years before coming to Cleveland.. It is not as though he has not been around an NFL Operation.

You can say they have no experience in their current role, but you can't say that.

Even you and me have a clue which is why we either agree or disagree with what they're doing.

I understand what they say about the front office structure. I just can't see Hue not having the ultimate say about which quarterback they go with. If there is a disagreement, it is hard to imagine Sashi forcing someone on Hue that he doesn't want. How it plays out in subsequent rounds, I am not sure. But at No.2, if it is going to be a QB, I have to believe Hue's voice is the loudest.
I realize that is not exactly what and how I said it before. I appreciate the feedback, but no need to Tim Russert me. I don't pretend to have particularly stable opinions about this damn team.

What experience does Sashi have w/assembling a roster?

I was trying to educate you. I'm sorry if you found that offensive. I didn't call you a Negative Nancy. I didn't tell you to go root for another team. I did not make it personal. I posted direct quotes from Sashi. Not sure why that is a bad thing????

Why is this so difficult to understand? Brown will have the final say if there is a disagreement among the other stakeholders. If Hue and Berry say Wentz is the guy then he's the guy. If Hue and Berry have a difference of opinion then Brown will pick from those two based on all the available information, he's not going to say "I realize that you guys want Wentz and Goff respectively but I think I'm going to draft LaQuan McGowan because I think 400# TE's are the wave of the future!"

This is no different than any other professionally run organziation, someone has to have the final say or you'll have Haslam or Dowell Loggains interjecting with last minute texts and everything will be thrown out the window. As many of you have said, the last few regimes would have been better letting any of a 1000 mock drafter's make their picks and you're probably right but how do you think those guys make up their mocks? Through analysis of past and expected future performance, gee, that sounds like analytics...it even looks similar...huh.

FFS let these guys at least have a chance, Brown wasn't in a personnel roll last year and hopefully Haslam will keep his fingers out of the pie and we'll truly have a fresh start.

I took no offense at all, Vers! I was just trying to clarify what I had meant, and realized that it was not exactly what I had said. I was thinking everybody might rightly point out the contradiction and trying to head them off at the pass.
You are right; they have set up their front office so Sashi is nominally the personnel man, and that makes him the draft day boss.

All I know is this, if I am the head coach (especially QB guru) and I prefer Goff over Wentz (for whatever reason), but Depodesta and Sashi decide to draft Wentz ... I'd be angry and resentful.

Ddub,this is the internet,I can say what I want.
hell I can even tell you what a handsome man I am,and if GM does pipe in someone might believe it.
None of us have a clue on what it's going to take to turn this team around,and that includes the FO.
I can only imagine the hundreds of dos and don't that this group is going to have to learn the hard way.
Mistake after mistake will be made,until they learn,what the experienced GM's around the league already know.
This group certainly have the smarts,they need the experience.I just can't believe that Haslam has the patience to allow that to happen.

I feel just like that often times. At other times I think this has possibilities. I've heard it all, good and bad. Neither outweighs the other. But I keep looking for positives in hopes that I find them. I don't need to look for the negatives because those are glaringly obvious.

I think this positive/negative talk is way overdone on this forum. It's become too prevalent in discussions. I think realism would be the best choice.

You didn't do it in this particular post, but I am so tired of reading: I try to live my life by seeing the positives in things and remain optimistic rather than being negative and hateful. Life is so much better that way.

The superior attitude is nauseating. And while you say you see the positives and are optimistic, the subtle insult of calling others who don't agree with you is inserted in the statement. Gee, that sounds positive and optimistic. <<gag>>

A couple of more things regarding the positive/optimistic folks.

--Who gives a rat's ass how you live your lives? Are you superior beings telling all of us heathens how to live our lives? Frankly, I don't care what you do and don't want to hear about your superiority while discussing football.

--I am a positive person. I believe that good things will happen for me if I work hard, make good life choices, help others, exhibit sound moral character, etc.

--However, I am intelligent to know that me being positive and optimistic about the Browns is not going to have anything to do w/the Browns being successful. I understand the difference between the things I can control and those I can't.

Allow me to give you a scenario of the what I think a positive person is according to many of you on this board:

I go to the car dealership and being that I am a positive person and optimistic about things, I believe that the car salesman is going to give me top dollar for my trade in. I also believe that all the add-on options he suggests are worthy of me spending more money because I am optimistic that he really is looking out for my best interests. And being a positive person, I know that his "bottom line" price really is the best price I can get on the vehicle, so why bother haggling?

The car breaks down on the way home. That's okay. I am a positive person and I need the exercise. Before I start walking, I call a towing service to take my car to their garage for repairs. The driver asks if I want them to call w/an estimate of the charges, but being the positive person that I am, I said not to bother because I am optimistic in that they will treat me fairly.

I begin walking the last few blocks home when I come across a guy who stops me on the street. He rolls his sleeve up and his forearm is adorned w/several expensive looking watches. He says that they are all Rolex watches and he has to sell them because his mother, who is the saint of saints, needs surgery and he would do anything to save her. I don't really need a watch and I tell him about the car and how money is a little tight right now. He says that he likes me and is willing to sell these genuine Rolex watches for a discounted price just to me and then tells me not to tell anyone else. Gee, here is another positive person, much like myself, so I buy two of these beauties.

I arrive home and my wife asks why I am late for dinner. I look at my new watches, but both have stopped. I begin to tell her the entire story, when she interrupts me and says: "I married a fool."

Sorry for the long story, but this positive/negative talk by superior posters has been bothering me for some time. How about we keep things "real" and leave the positive/negative life choices out of it?

Couple of things here!

1. They do, without a doubt, have a learning curve.

2. They (Depodesta, Brown and Berry) are very well educated and are without a doubt very smart young men. And Berry has some very good experience with the Colts to draw upon.

3. We have a VERY experienced HC in Hue Jackson and for the most part, he has a pretty highly respected staff including Horton (who probably doesn't excite me as much as some).

I'm an older guy and grew up looking at things quite a bit differently than this generation. I still don't know if there is a replacement for good horse sense and the ability to recognize talent.

But we do live in a different world. Things have changed as evidenced by the other thread on here about the RFID chips and how they give some serious analytical tools to the game.

I think this is one of those times where we simply don't know what we don't know. And what we don't know could drive us all nuts.

I get it, tab. Your opinion is more factual than Sashi's words.

j/c:

BOCA RATON, Fla. -- Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, coach Hue Jackson and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta met with a small group of Browns media here at the NFL Annual Meeting on Monday morning.

Here are some quick highlights:

* Brown said the Browns are moving forward on possibly signing quarterback Robert Griffin III and that the team is doing it's due diligence. He did not sound like a signing is imminent, but those things can change. Griffin III and his agent, Ben Dogra, are not at the meetings.

* Brown said the Browns are not actively engaged in trade talks with the 49ers for Colin Kaepernick "and at this point we don't anticipate being engaged with San Francisco.

* He said the Browns were called to see if they were interested, and engaged in some preliminary talks. He said the Browns' interest was "over-reported'' and that they never negotiated a draft pick or a new contract for Kaepernick.

* Brown and Jackson said the Browns are proceeding as if they won't have suspended receiver Josh Gordon, and will deal with it if he's reinstated. In the event he is re-instated, "we would need to see where his head is at before you bring him back into the locker room.''

* Jackson said he can only worry about coaching the guys who are here.

* Brown said with Gordon "it's not going to be about words, it's going to be about actions.''

* Brown said Gordon is not part of the Browns organization right now, and therefore he had no comment on him hanging out with Johnny Manziel.

* Browns said 'it's too early to tell' if cornerback Joe Haden will be ready for the 2016 season. He said Haden had some cartilage and ligament damage repaired on Friday. "I know Joe will put the work in'" to get back.

* Jackson said of Haden, 'obviously we're going to get him back at some point' but in the meantime, the club will make contingency plans at the position and develop other players.

* Brown said Haden hurt the ankle during an offseason workout, although he initially hurt it during the Cardinals game Nov. 1.

* Brown indicated that linebacker Armonty Bryant, who's suspended the first four games of the season for violating the performance-enhancing drug policy, will be part of the offseason program that begins April 4th. He declined to say if Bryant will remain with the team this season.

More to come soon on the session with the Browns' top brass.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/browns_moving_forward_on_rober.html

Sorry tab............I do not think Sashi's explanation of the Brown's hierarchy is very difficult to interpret. It's to the point.

Calling this good news is an understatement.

Sashi, in a press conference this morning, said that speculation was way overblown, FWIW.

Who knows, though? This could all be posturing.

Always good to get news. Don't know if it's all good or not, but it's new news.

Anyone else think it's a good thing to sign RGIII

Ytown, I know you were all in on RG when he was getting drafted. I also know that you've since stated that you were probably wrong back then. Not sure "wrong" is the right term.

But now that we may be getting him, what do you think?