DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

Not everything that's reported (especially stuff that's attributed to "a source") is at all accurate. The Thomas trade and the Kaepernick trade were both over-reported (and that's not from "a source". Joe Thomas himself said the call came from Denver. You said he's involved in the PR machine, but I give more weight to what he says over "a source" any day.

As for the question of it matters, I can see if both ways. It matters because accuracy and truth matter. It also doesn't matter because that was back during the Farmer-Pettine regime. A lot of what those guys did didn't make much sense. We have a new regime now.

FWIW:

Quote from Sashi:



Full article here:
http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...market-1.670630

Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com reports that the Browns and Broncos discussed a trade for All-Pro left tackle Joe Thomas, and the Broncos were willing to give up their 2016 first-round pick. However, the Browns wanted even more than that, also asking for the promising young linebacker Shaq Barrett, and the Broncos decided that was too much.

Those discussions came after the Broncos lost their first left tackle, Ryan Clady, to a season-ending injury but before the Broncos lost their second left tackle, Ty Sambrailo, to a season-ending injury. It’s possible that the Broncos could be willing to sweeten the offer today after placing Sambrailo on injured reserve yesterday.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...for-joe-thomas/

maybe this will shed some light on the subject at hand...they lost both of their LT to injury. Both to season ending one at that.

hmmm...yea should have put pen to paper in 2014 for those guys...in this light seems all the hate toward the new FO in kinda unfounded...

I’ve seen a lot of their agents mouth off in the media, and I’ll just leave it at that."


to me this is the most telling. more than Sashi unwilling to spill the beans so to speak...sounds more like agents are over stepping? or asking too much? the "mouthing off" statement says quite a bit to me. most likely, the way I read it sounds like he did not want to elaborate on it due to not wanting to air dirty laundry? not sure really. But now I am leaning towards that more than anything else.

Do we really need to know, mac? This likely is internal business of the team and not for outside consumption. Like you stated: "it doesn't change the outcome".

My interpretation of that statement, mac, is that Schwartz's agent screwed up the negotiations somehow and disseminated inaccurate information. Seems that left a bad taste in Brown's mouth...

I agree, that's exactly how I take/took that statement there too. Sounds like, more and more, the agent of Schwartz fudged matters up and Sashi and company weren't playing the kid's ball with him. Shame it couldn't have worked out, but others and definitely me included, may need to re-think the situation that Sashi just let Mitchell walk due to not having signed the contract within a time period or something, that me for example, called "childish".

I wish I was Mitchell, so I could tell everyone what really happened lol.

He called them out publicly. I wonder if any of them will take him up on it.

Mac: I know you express your opinions in a passionate manner, and that you have every right to do so. As I posted earlier, every organization has issues that they want kept internal for many various reasons. And I believe you have your timeline backwards on the FA's going and coming...

j/c

If people take every word this FO says as gospel and keeps pretending everyone else is lying, they will just keep buying into the same unrealistic BS we've been being sold since 1999.

I think Farmer should have inked those guys before FA was even close.

I don't think he necessarily LIED when he said that. He probably WANTED to build through the draft but lacked the know-how to do it. If Farmer had gotten MS, Gipson and Benji signed last season, or before in the case of Gipson, I bet they'd still be here. But just like he did with Mack two years ago he chose to wait until the last minute, only the last minute is now and it falls in the lap of the new regime.

Sashi was in charge of contracts. Not Farmer. Sheesh man!!!!

There's two things that bother me with this quote. The first and most concerning is the comment about "mouthing off". I hope that agent doesn't have anyone else we're wanting to sign because it sure seems like we're not going to get a call back from that guy.

The second is the fact that Brown was the lead negotiator with these guys prior to the shake up. I just hope he had his marching orders from Farmer in terms of what to spend or that's a bad sign for the future...

Who did the negotiation? Was Sashi responsible for the legalese? I do not pretend to know...

"Brown was the chief contract negotiator at the time."

But that doesn't mean he set the budget for each player.

I should have been more specific. I was only referring to this comment:

Wait! Sashi said that? Really? I kind of did some skim reading because the posts were pretty annoying.

Was it really Sashi who said that?

That's the quote.

That's not good.

I said this before, but I understand that regular guys like us despise agents and think they are the slime of the earth. However, NFL people have to deal w/them and it is wise to maintain a respectful, working relationship.

Analytics are a great tool, but the NFL is still a "people business" and making reactionary, ignorant comments like that will NOT help the Browns evolve into a better team.

100% agree. Other agents even seeing that is going to damage his credibility (assuming he has any). I'm hoping it was a mis-quote, but either way it makes life for the Browns more difficult.

6. With Banner gone, Haslam set up a new business model. Team president Alec Scheiner was put in charge of the business side. Farmer was placed in charge of player acquisition. He made trades, ran the draft and picked the 53-man roster. Pettine was put in charge of coaching, picking the 46 players to dress on game day and making all coaching decisions.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/11/cleveland_browns_scribbles_abo_10.html

Looks like Sashi just negotiated contracts that Farmer told him to. at least that's the way I read it.

You know I know crap, but it seems to me that if you are the GM and I'm in charge of contracts then when you give me the ok I'll get that contract drawn up. But I don't think it's up to me to decide to re-sign a player unless told to do so my you.

That clears that up, thanks!

I still think Farmer should have extended MS's contract before the 11th hour when the only choice was try to hold him here by his belt loops or tag him. Same with Gipson. Farmer tagged him last year when he could have extended him as well. Benji, I'm not as sure of him. He did the same thing with Mack, he ended up having to tag him to keep him here. I understand teams who are cash strapped get backed into a corner unable to sign a player to a long term contract but we have not been cash strapped for several years.

To me it's just one of many examples of Farmer not trusting his own plan and then waffling until this options are gone.

Sashi worries me. He seems like a guy who is so smart he loses sight of the goal and outsmarts himself. Then he lashes out. Really, there was no reason to lose Schwartz. The other guys I either didn't sweat or understand why they left. Don't complain about agents. It's your job to deal with them. And when you run the Browns, you don't even get to do it on your terms.
I don't care that we didn't sign anyone, either. But now chasing after all these broken down QBs .... I don't like it. If guys like Kaepernick and Griffith haven't progressed mentally, they just aren't on the right trajectory for us.
Even if these guys figure things out, we are going to suck for a few years, minimum.

I asked a question on another thread and 32 replied w/an excerpt from an article about Sashi's job responsibilities. Contract negotiations was one of is duties. Thus, I am assume he could have negotiated w/the free agents in question before all this junk went down.

They can negotiate with player's agent (not the player) 2 days prior to the start of the signing period...

What?

Then how could have Farmer negotiated w/them?

Goodness!!!!!!

I wasn't clear. That was for potential free agents on other teams.

Vers, I'm kinda with you on this one.

While it's kinda nice to have a sliver of more insight into how the Schwartz incident, I don't like that he aired it out the way he did. GMs need to have thicker skin than this, and though he doesn't have the title, he has the responsibilities of a GM. While Farmer did the new FO no favors (and Farmer was the guy running the show with our pending FAs), Sashi needs to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. It seems he's not as used to the criticism as DePodesta (the articles earlier about how he was listening to his peers mock him).

I agree, he could have. But he'd have been doing it all on his own. Hue got here in the middle of January and the VP of Player Personnel at the end of the month.

Hue needed time to go over the roster and decide who he wanted to keep of those FAs. He already knew he wanted Mack I'm sure. But that left the other three, well four including Badamosi. If Hue took two weeks making those decisions through looking at individual film on those players and then film on other players who would have to step in if we didn't keep the FAs I don't know if that would be taking too long for a new coach who was also going through all the media stuff required of him as the new coach.

So, when I consider Sashi had to wait until he hired a coach to see who he wanted to keep and then wait two weeks for the coach to make those decisions it left him one month to negotiate.

Normally that would seem like enough time. But he's up against the wall with player's agents whose players were treated like maybe they weren't wanted here, since Farmer refused(?) to address them previous to this 11th hour mad rush to get something done. Plus, Sashi has to deal with them after yet another fired HC and GM which has to be a con when the player weighs the pros and cons.

Farmer could have already had Gipson extended, avoiding that. He could already have had MS extended last year, avoiding that with him as well. Benji, I don't know. He could have been extended when Barnage was. Something held that up. Farmer/Benji, I don't know. That could be a legit delay. But the other two should have been already done.

So Sashi has one month to negotiate with all the cons related to the team with a new FO, new HC, a personell guy who got there 2 days before February to go along with all the losing over these player's careers. It put him in a decidedly bad situation to spin himself out of.

I have two takes on this:

1. If Sashi was upset because the agent was "mouthing off" about how bad Sashi acted in the negotiations then it was nothing more than an immature lashing out for being exposed.

2. If it was the agent who was the A-hole in negotiations and then decided "mouthing off" about the Browns in an attempt to remove himself from any guilt then I feel Sashi's comment was basically calling him out. If the agent wants to mouth-off, bringing it out into the open, then two can play at that game and we'll see if the agent can stand up to it.

It's my hope it's #2 and the incident will be over as the agent will drop it where it is. Sashi said the Browns DID NOT "pull" an offer off the table as was reported. If that's the case then Sashi punked him. Punks need to be punked. The Browns don't need to be anyone's punk. If #2 is the case I applaud Sashi for standing up to it.

Also, just because MS's brother mentioned the "nonsense" that went on, that doesn't automatically mean the Browns were the ones creating the nonsense which is widely assumed.

You can't spin this one.
He said "a lot of their agents" that's plural,more than one.
Apparently Boo-hooing 101 is taught at Harvard.