DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

"Asked to elaborate on what happened during the talks involving Schwartz, Brown said, "I think enough has been said about it. I think a lot of players left their teams. I’ve seen a lot of their agents mouth off in the media, and I’ll just leave it at that."
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His comment WAS less isolating than I thought it was. Still, the subject was the report that the Browns "pulled" an offer to Schwartz. He says they didn't. Even though he was talking about agents (plural) mouthing off it's pretty obvious he aimed that at Schwartz's agent as one of them. The one he's concerned with.

Or not taking any BS or not playing games is taught there. I am sure the truth will come out later.

In the mean time I am offering free life jackets for anybody who needs them

With or without the Browns logo?

I suspect that you are "dead-on" in stating that...

So, the deal wasn't pulled. It was for more money then the offer from the Chiefs.

Seems to me Schwartz had no intention of signing.

Regardless, what he said about agents was a classless move. I'm fine with him saying no offer was pulled but he should have left it at that.

Sashi clearly follows this board and felt compelled to set the record straight about what REALLY happened. He was talking directly to us when he made those comments. That's a FO person I believe in! #littlebitofpurple

I'm not all that concerned about these comments. Could be have chosen better words?? Absolutely. No question about that. But both FO and agents position themselves in the media all that time.

And let's be honest here for a second....you think an agent wouldn't work with a FO for a team with the most cap space and the best chance for his client to get paid, and as a by product, that agent to get mucho dinero? Please. Relationships are very important in anything you do, but it's what happens behind the scenes that carries more substance that what is conveyed to Mary Kay Cabot.

That being said, I think Sashi could have used better words. I think he's frustrated how it all went down w/ Mitchell Schwartz. He's not the only one.

WITH

I believe you're right, Memphis. I endorse this post...

Clearly, Cleveland is to blame for everything that happened.

I think isolating on just the Schwartz situation is unwise. I think it is better to think "big picture."

Again, the NFL is a people business. It's wise to have a good, working relationship w/those you have to deal with. Deals get done when people can work "together."

Many of us have probably seen the videos or read about how either an agent or a team exec will compliment the other party by saying something like: "he's tough, but he's reasonable," or "they are firm, but they are fair."

We read--and heard--reports last year [especially during the talks of Joe T's possible trade] of the Browns being difficult to work with. How there were too many people involved in the decision making process.

Again, I understand that fans hate agents. I understand they don't like GMs from other teams. However, as a professional, it is best to maintain a professional, if not friendly, relationship w/those you have to work with.

Give mac credit where it's due. He is no longer saying that the Browns pulled the offer...

No question about it. Sidetracking slightly here, but Joe Banner was one tough dude that the agents didn't like to deal with. I'm not trying to be confrontational, simply a comment on FO/agent relations...

I would prefer that people have the balls to call a spade a spade

Now before anybody gets all butt hurt, this is a spade

That is not really true, 32.

In fact, the hypothetical comment I made about "being firm, but fair" was a synopsis of comments made by agents about Banner.

Oh........and please.........let's not make this another Banner thread.

That's fine, GM.

I would prefer a guy who can put his pettiness aside and do what's in the best interests of his team.

To each their own.

I agree that's the other side of it. It then comes down to, if an agent bad-mouths about you to other agents and/or other teams, which can also effect how others deal with us going forward, do you turn the other cheek and stand for it or do you call him out forcing his hand?

Turning the other cheek is usually the better option, granted that. We're already the laughing stock. Should we be the doormat also? I'm ok with what he did though we'll likely never know any more about it than we do now.

Are you buying that "the world is picking on the Browns" theory? Someone once said to me something like this: "if so many people are saying it, don't you think there might be some truth to it?

I guess that explains why neither one of us is the GM buddy lol

Well, you are.

'twas not my intention...

Do I think people are consciously picking on the Browns? Not really, though there are a few individuals with axes to grind. I think we've just been an easy target, and, despite our record on the field, we've often done something to put us in the media spotlight/ target reticule. I think the media sees what they expect to see, and we get bashed a lot based on the recent past. The Browns are rarely given the benefit of the doubt in the national media. There always seems to be a little bit of negative spin. There may be some of the "You attract the type of energy that you put out" going on. The Browns do often seem to carry a black cloud around with them.

Sashi probably should have taken the high road, but, as my time in timeout can attest, I can understand getting frustrated with someone. If you act like a punching bag, you should expect people to hit you. Still, you don't have to throw back low blows.

As far as the truth being related to how many people are saying something, I have my doubts. There's the whole "History is written by the victors" concept to consider. If you follow the truth in numbers belief, are you condoning stereotypes, racial profiling, etc?

For the record, I was not speaking about the media. I was talking about comments from other NFL personnel and agents.

I've been rather dense lately so I'm not sure what I said that would make you ask the first question unless it was the laughing stock/doormat statement I made. We are one, I don't want to be the other too. I don't think anyone is picking on us other than those in the league who highly question the Browns "new" approach. But that's not really picking.

Ok, I just read you response to Grimm that you were talking about other NFL personnel and agents saying the Browns have been difficult to deal with, too many cooks in the kitchen and such. Maybe it's selective but I don't remember that being said about them this year, last season and before, yes. I'd like to know more. I've read so much lately, both old and new articles, I may have gotten things mixed up.

As for the second question, I'm often on the road less traveled. And, like mac, stay with me a moment, I'll get behind the scenes to look for clues where there may be none. I'll also sometimes read between the lines where there is only empty space. Unlike mac, my initial venture is with a bent toward the Browns favor rather than against it. Sometimes it's wishful thinking, sometimes it really is a fairy tale I hope will come true. I'm pretty screwed up.

I defended the FO regarding the FAs as best I could. Now, when a tid-bit more information comes out it turns that we didn't pull the offer and Sashi calls the agent out on his mouthing off. So maybe I've been on to something. lol

I hate typing Sashi every time I reference him. But to type Brown it is too close to Browns and it begins to read confusing to me, which shouldn't matter as my posts read confusing anyway. I just wanted to mention that.

At any rate, I'm still of the opinion I was in my last couple of posts but perhaps backing off a hair, but not enough to completely agree with you others who are wrong. lol

Agents are most definitely trying to see what they can get away with. NFL front offices will be too come draft day. It's just the nature of the beast.

There are way too many Nostrodamuses in this thread that pretend that they know what happened behind closed doors.

From a Feb 25 article...

“This time when a guy is on the fringe of free agency is not the ideal time to be negotiating these contracts,” Brown said. “We will, with earnest, continue to push forward and try to bring back several players. But moving forward we hope to identify these guys a lot earlier than we have in the past.”

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What was it DePodesta was saying about being at the Combine last month. He overheard a couple of team execs making fun of the whole "Moneyball" thing.

I think you are on to something there.

Not particularly dub. More like the guys that are certain that it happened one way or the other.

Oh, I hoped I wasn't coming across quite like that.

You're good.

I don't want the Browns to be doormats on or off the field, but having said that, there's a way to call out that agent without using insulting language. Instead of agents were "mouthing off", if he'd just said that Schwartz's agent was "spinning" or "coloring negotiations in a specific light". The first one is how you talk to a punk that you don't respect, the others are how you deal with fellow professionals. Everyone knows they mean essentially the same thing but they will be reacted to much differently.

...and this right here goes a loooong way toward explaining our dismal draft record since 1999. Every other year (or three), strangers gather at 76 Groza to start an NFL football team from scratch- in one of the most stable divisions in the League.

Analytics, rookie Head Coaches, experienced HC's, Walrus- all of them different, with the same pathetic result. Do you think that perhaps the biggest missing element... is Time?

I still don't get why Sashi only had one month? What about all of last year? He was the guy who had the job of negotiating contracts.

Upon further consideration I suppose "mouthing off" was not the best thing he could have said, if he needed to say anything. That's all I've got to say about that right now. I'm already hanging my head in despair from having to backpedal.

Assumedly the maximum value of the contracts were set by Farmer though. I'm sure Brown wasn't given authorization to give Schwartz $100million if that's what he "negotiated". More than likely, he was told "we've allocated $7million a year average with no more than 30% guaranteed and we we're willing to go out to 5 years. Get us the best deal you can within those parameters." That's just my guess. Generally negotiators are not the final decision makers outside of a pre-determined structure.

Hay, man..... why the blade gotta be black?

Huh???

What you tryin' to say?