DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

I'm not saying you're wrong. What I am saying is that in the corporate world, which this is exactly what it is, often times we aren't told the truth and public relations and damage control rule the day.

I see it very much as an either or situation.

Say it ain't so, Pit.

Not saying you're wrong either.

I'll tend to speculate one way or the other. In this instance both directions make sense. I just landed on the side I did.

It's hard to assume, making a concrete statement like that - that Sashi was fibbing. I think Deputy said it best, and not to quote but perhaps his agent wasn't ready for prime time.

And it's very hard for me to imagine that Farmer did NOT want any of those four guys to remain w/the Browns.

One more thing, you keep mentioning one month. I disagree w/that, but let's just say you are right. How long did KC have to sign Scwartz? Atlanta w/Mack? Etc.......

Way more than a month?

I know you are doing everything you can to defend Sashi and that's cool. I just ain't buying it, ddub.

Peace.

Peace.

I didn't say anything other than Brown was quoted as saying the offer wasn't pulled and asked if Mac thought the guy was a liar. So I guess it boils down to who you believe. I belive Brown. It's evident who you believe.

Carry on.

First, I asked you if you called Sashi a liar. That comment was based on this quote from earlier in the thread




So Sashi says that isn't how it played out. Again, are you saying he is a liar?

No, I think you missed my point entirely Peen.

I'm saying it could fall either way. Both sides have a motive to be far less than honest. So to me it's not clear who to believe or take for granted which side is being honest.

I didn't miss your point at all. I simply boiled it down to who you choose to believe. I don't think Brown would lie about that. Way too many ways for that to be proven against him.

The guy isn't stupid.

Mac when it comes to the draft I am more worried about how these folks handle their jobs

Andrew Berry Vice President, Player Personnel
Dan Saganey Manager, Pro Personnel
Ken Kovash Director, Football Research/Player Personnel
Sam DeLuca Pro Scouting Assistant
Mike Cetta Project Coordinator
Kevin Meers Football Research Analyst
Scott Aligo Player Personnel
Charles Bailey Player Personnel
Zac Bocian Player Personnel
Colton Chapple Player Personnel / Blesto
Lake Dawson Player Personnel
Bobby DePaul Player Personnel
Mike Hagen Player Personnel
Ron Hill Player Personnel
Matt Holland Player Personnel
James Kirkland Player Personnel
Gerald McCully Player Personnel
Patrick Moore Player Personnel
Chisom Opara Player Personnel
Harrison Ritcher Player Personnel
Bobby Vega Player Personnel

The most successful GM's are the guys who have the ability to hire the right people and LET those people do their jobs. They know how to give the people under them everything they need to succeed. They have no need to feed their ego, or try to hog all the credit. If the scouts and player personal people all do their jobs well and their bosses let them do their jobs and then listen to them then we will have a good draft. Right now we have to just grab some snacks, sit back and watch the show unfold. When it's all over we can give it the old Siskel & Ebert thumbs up or thumbs down. Until then I am not buying any magic beans, or running around saying the sky is falling.

I really don't know if he's telling the truth or not.. But I'm not going to bang on the guy if I don't know.

I have to admit, it makes a much better story for the Press to say he pulled the offer.. That makes me tend to believe Sashi.

But but but.,.,, The Sky is Falling!

You probably shouldn't use sarcasm.

And you shouldn't continue to call people out causing them to want to be sarcastic..

If they did want out, what does that tell you about the state of the Browns?

There, that is more like the usual "you."

I've always felt if a Free Agent is looking for money, they use their current club's offer as a starting point in negotiations with the money clubs. That is part of the reason for the Franchise and transition tags, to give the "home team" a chance in negotiations. If a club is not interested in using the tags, then they are willing to let the money seekers go...

Great....

We've finally come back full circle and have agreed the years of poor performance have compounded itself and no one wants to be here (for the most part)internally or externally.

Now, let's see if the new FO structure can change that while recognizing the concern from fans that this is a very different approach focusing perhaps SO MUCH on analytics (more than any team) and having control being handled by people w/o extended football knowledge.

For the record, I don't think you need football knowledge to justify being the final say, as long as you effectively manage the football people you have.

If it doesn't work, we'll continue to be the most laughed at professional sports team in ALL of sports.

I don't know why those four guys are gone. I just know that they are gone and that the Browns are an even worse team than they were.

{Ut Oh----cue the Browns were 3 and 13 w/these guys posts}

Yup, you poked the bear.

That they were tired of the dysfunction and weren't even going to give this iteration a chance. It is hard to blame the players leaving, but it is also hard for me to blame the "new" FO at this juncture, too. I can see blaming Haslam for blowing it up again, but I don't see that he had much of a choice.

Even if Sashi is in charge of the draft you have a scouting dept. that will tell you who is the best player to take at a certain position or time. The trick is will he listen to them. I certainly would as well as any other info that I had. MS was a mistake no doubt. Mack wanted to leave and so did Gipson from what I have read. TB can be replaced although I did like him as a player. We'll see what happens.

Look Mac, you are taking the word of an agent! AN AGENT! And then you talk about Schwartz's brother. What is it you expect him to say.

I'm not defending Sashi, but damn, get some facts will ya

If there weren't serious issues, why would they say anything?

I mean he made a decision to move on and there would really be no need to comment if issues had not occurred. Why would Schwartz, his brother and his agent take shots at the Browns for no reason?

You see, points can be made in both directions. Once Schwartz made the decision to sign with KC, there was no motivation nor nothing to gain making such statements. So where did that motivation come from?

That's why things aren't as cut and dry as many make it seem. Now I don't know which side is telling the truth, but there was nothing to gain by throwing mud at one another after his contract discussions were over.

There's really no reason for either side to do what they did.

If things had went smoothly and Schwartz simply moved on, there's no reason for anyone on Schwartz side to say anything.

Once people on Schwartz side made comments, the Browns needed to do damage control if what the Schwartz side is saying was true.

Like I said Tab, there's no reason to say which side is being honest and which side isn't. I'm not picking a side here.

What I'm saying is that if Schwartz really wanted out, everyone on the Schwartz side of this would have had no reason to comment. They would be content in that they got what they really wanted.

Now I know you feel you have to automatically jump on the train with the Browns FO, and that's fine. But there are legitimate reasons for me to try to be objective and say that we will probably never know what really happened and I can see this scenario being legitimate from both sides.

You don't know any more about what transpired than I do. And if you only look at it from one side, you'll never see that either side could be telling the truth or either side could be lying.

I don't recall Schwartz taking any shots at the Browns. His brother did say "there was some nonsense" but he didn't say it was the Browns who created that nonsense, people just assumed that because, Browns. The agent? If he tried to get more money from the Browns than their initial offer and the Browns refused I could see him saying, "Screw this Michael, let's sign with KC", and then take a pot shot at the Browns saying they reneged on their original offer. I don't even think Schwartz would know for sure what happened.

So we've got, Schwartz didn't take any shots. His brother never explained who he was talking about regarding the nonsense. And the Agent who might have screwed up and then lied, (according to Sashi, he did).

I'm beginning to think you need medication.

Or Sashi who screwed up and went into butt saving mode.

Like I said, it could go either way.

It's funny, people act like I'm taking a side or trying to destroy Sashi in some way. I'm simply showing how it easily go either direction.

No matter how many times tab is proven wrong, he will keep insisting his takes are superior to yours.

Gotta admire the effort.

I think most people focus on when they are right rather than when they are wrong. Simple human nature. I remember a lot of people saying McCown would be terrible. I don't remember a lot of them constantly saying they were wrong about him.

I don't see him saying his takes are superior. It's his opinion. Everyone tends to think they are right. I don't think people go around thinking their opinions are wrong.

Tons of money? What numbers are you looking at?