DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OL going forward

The loss of Mack and Schwartz means significant changes in the OL. Thomas will remain the LT, but the rest of the line is subject to change. We have 3 capable guards in Bitonio, Pasztor, and Greco (who has also played C.) We also have Irving, although whether he is improved enough to rely on, and where he would fit is very questionable.

I'm wondering if Bitonio wouldn't be the best option at RT. He was a pretty good LT in college and was, if I'm not mistaken, considered to be a tackle in the draft. We converted him to guard because that's what we needed at that time. If Irving is improved enough to start, then I think we might see Thomas, Pasztor, Irving/Greco, Greco/Irving, and Bitonio from left to right. That is, of course, unless we land another starter via FA or the draft.

I think Bailey's gonna get a shot starting at guard. Bitonio at RT could be the plan. We'll see how it plays out.

This is not an endorsement, just how I see things right now....

Thomas-Bitonio-Erving-Greco-Pacztor

I have been thinking about scheme fit a lot lately and Hue's scheme uses a lot of Power and Counter plays that need athletic pulling guards.

That makes me think that the guard spots will be Paztor and Bitonio. They both pull and get to the 2nd level really well. So that leaves Erving and Grecco fighting it out between Center and RT with Bailey and the others trying to squeeze in.

I will bet you a box of donuts that Pastor ends up our RT. Just look at him. That guy is a RT.

You're on. Not because I'm convinced I'm right and you're wrong, I just like that bet.

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Exactly where I was planning to go if I lost. I recommend it if I win too.

Cool. I get to Cleveland for games 5-6 times a year. It would be easy to make a meet time. I don't eat donuts. If we could change that to a beer or two, even better.

I will bet you a box of donuts that Pastor ends up our RT. Just look at him. That guy is a RT.


Has Paztor played RT?

He was starting RT in Jacksonville for a time. He wasn't particularly good but he's more experienced now.

I don't know about scheme, but I like:

Joe--Paztor---Erving [eeek]---Grecco---Bitonio

Wait...........I like this one even better:

Joe--Bitonio---Mack---Grecco---Schwartz

Maybe this thread should be entitled. OL Going Backwards?

At the end of my street

Biagio's in Eastlake (close to me) is good too, but I figured everyone was probably more familiar with Cleveland.

Jack Frost just remodeled. I haven't seen it yet, but if they now have room to sit down, I wouldn't mind getting together with some folks for coffee and donuts.

Erving will be our center and we will probably draft a RT with one of our first 2 draft picks. It will be fine.

1st, let me say that it is really unfair to be discussing yummy doughnuts with a diabetic reading. lol

2nd, if we draft an OL with one of our top 2 picks, I may drive to Berea, as much pain as that would cause me, and punch everyone involved with the draft in the head.

From 2009 to 2015, we spent 4 1st or 2nd round picks on OL.

2009: 1: Mack
2012: 2: Schwartz
2014: 2: Bitonio
2015: 1: Erving

Then we let 2 of those walk earlier this year. We did not draft weapons. This team has been bereft of real game changers for so long. Gordon is a real game changer, when he is on the field and dialed in. However, we have no idea if he will be here for game 1, or any other game, for that matter. This team needs difference makers. It is time to grab players who can change a game on a moment's notice.

Other teams make good offensive lines with lower round players, and even UDFA. It is time for us to start using out top draft picks for real difference makers, and let the OL coaches earn their living by getting the mid round and below guys ready to play at a high level.

I am serious though .... if we let Schwartz go just so we can spend a 1st round pick on a RT, (or pick 32) I am somehow going to get to Berea and punch someone in the head. Hard. I am sick to death of decisions that make no sense. This would be a huge one.

Strange that we got 4 out of 5 picks (JT included) on OL from the 1st and 2nd round, with Erving still being the big question mark (MS was also almost qualified has a bust on the first seasons), and yet we cannot find talent on latter rounds, nor in other positions

Are we that good Drafting OL in the first rounds?

Maybe we should just draft OL and then after a season trade them for bona fide skill players.

Maybe trade JT for a top pass rusher and draft a LT with #2

greco can make calls for the line. he can also play center but i think that lowers the line. I think its possible we take a OT to play RT and be Joe Thomas's eventual replacement.

If I was sashi I would sign Joe thomas to a 5 year deal to make him the highest paid LT in the game to use up some of that required cap space. We need a happy and positive minded Joe. They can front load it so it hits the cap hard this season but is friendly for the rest of his contract. I think Joe is still the best LT 4 years from now if he doesn't retire to get away from the Browns.

I recall that as well, 'eo. I don't remember the timeline or the duration...

I think one thing we can agree on here... a big hooray we extended Greco back in what, 2013? I'm not sure I'd wanted to think about our offensive line without him currently. We're deep in trouble as is imo, couldn't imagine even being one more guy down or out. Greco is solid and versatile.

He's always beyond humble too when speaking to the media.

Stopped by Jack Frost today, their new layout does not include seating...so no getting together for coffee and donuts there.

Grecco deserves long term commitment. The guy may not be a probowler but he is good enough to not hurt your OL at any of the interior positions. I love the fact that he is gonna be able to compete with Bailey at RG and also with ERving at center. If these guys beat him out then hey they can play because Grecco wont give up without a fight.

I see it as.

Joe Thomas - Miller
Bitonio- Grecco Pasztor
Erving- Grecco
Bailey-Grecco
Pasztor

Probably so. I don't think this line can be any worse than last years line. I actually expect to see improvements. I think coaching was a big issue last year.

Last year's OL played well.

To be fair I would say they pass blocked really well. But, I do not think our line ran blocked all that great.

Actually, going by the numbers, they were tied for 2nd worst in sacks allowed with 3.3 per game, 53 on the season. Their run blocking was better, ranked 23rd, at 95+ yards per game. Rushing YPA was better, at 4.0 per attempt, good for 16th in the league. Overall though, I wouldn't say they exactly played "well".

I would.

The numbers you have provided say nothing about how long the QBs held the ball, the scores/situations of the games, etc.

Here is one ranking:




I would say 5th is playing well. Wouldn't you?

Those are interesting #s. I didn't think our running game was that highly-ranked although it got better later in the season iirc.

Yes I would, if I agreed with that assessment, but I don't. Far be it from me to challenge PFF - although I guess I am - but I've got eyes in my head too. A team second-worst (tied for 30th) in sacks allowed cannot have the 3rd best pass blocking OL in the league, even if the QB's may have held the ball too long (in some opinions). The weaker interior line play at the beginning of the season, when Mack was still finding his legs, and then later when Bitonio got hurt was evident to anyone watching.

LOL..........okay.

Run block was below average.. Pass block was average.

Btw, Jackson did say Erving gets first crack at center. He felt it was unfair to judge him based on the merry go round he was last year.
Let's see if he can step up to decent.

Just a footnote to your point;

- Schwartz, lead the league in sacks & QB pressures of all tackles in 2015.
- Mack, struggled in run blocking all 2015. He had a 41% success rate when team ran behind his blocking, that was near the bottom of all NFL centers. He also gave up the second most pressures on the QB in the league.

Does that 41 % rate take into account that our between the tackles RB was thoroughly pedestrian? Honest question.

Does Hue use a lot of fullback in his offence?

I hope not. I would say a fullback who can't do anything but block shabbily is detrimental.