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I'm confused. Should Goff Wentz when he gets wet balls, or should Wentz Goff during his physical? Hmmm now I wonder if RG III had to Wentz, Goff or handle wet or dry balls before we signed him?

Ok, there's been a big Hue over our Quarterback situation for some time. Hopefully, the team will identify the player that will put some Pep in our offense...

I'm sticking to my guns, in this case a 12 Gauge. This scouting report does a fair job of analysis.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

I don't spend much time disparaging other poster's preferred QB prospects. That doesn't make me a saint. I'd just rather hype my guy than diss somebody else. So now I'm going to make an exception. Christrian Hakenburg, it already irked me how many position rankings had him above Jones. I realize these are media rankings and might not reflect team's evaluations but still this dude had been underwhelming to a much greater degree than Cardale. Now, it's reported that in team interviews he's throwing Franklin under the bus for his mediocrity. I'm no Franklin fan but Hackenburg is showing little smarts, little emotional maturity and zero leadership ability with these comments. I need him to shut up, get picked ahead of Cardale, so that Cleveland can wait comfortably until at least round 3 for Jones.

You've got a bad link there guard

I think I fixed it.

Yep

Lots of GIFs and a good read, especially for a Jones fan. The writer seems to cover everything.

Haven't been on here since last draft. What is everyone's thoughts on Jacoby Brissett? I've been watching tape religiously for months and I see a lot of upside in the guy. Great character, leadership, arm talent and big ben like in the pocket. He had a horrible team around him but still saved their team.

This is the QB I want us to draft. I was high on Wentz until the wet ball flop. I'll take Cardale in any round after the first. Grab Bosa at #2 or an OT. I'd prefer Bosa as I think he is the BPA in this draft.

hell i was more impressed with how Wentz adapted to the wet ball. goff spun the ball to dry it a bit, kept the laces covered and dried his hand off. Wentz just let it rip. first one slipped after that he shortened his motion and still had plenty of arm. I like the fact he adapted to the situation but i gotta give Goff points for being smart enough to dry it best as he could.

Wentz tried to dry it, but stopped when he saw that Pep was just gonna dump even more water on it again. Honestly, I think the "water bottle test" was a waste of time. I think the ball becoming waterlogged is more of an issue than the ball ever being covered on the surface with water. They have so many towels to keep the ball relatively dry now, I don't think the test is realistic. If it's raining that hard, I don't think the QB would be able to see his receivers.

I think it was a mental test as much as a 'who can throw a wet ball test'. It just adds something that could make one nervous. In his interview with Mayock, Wentz said he wondered if Pep would do that him after seeing it done to Goff. So it did cause him to think on it a bit.

I'm only guessing here but I think balls get changed too often to get waterlogged.

Grimm, I don't think it was much pouring water on the ball. Wentz had a scripted routine. You have a guy come over pour water on the ball and tell you to through it. It's the players initial reaction. Wentz should have known seeing what happen during Goff's pro day.

I would feel very sick if I thought picking this guy was based solely how he threw a wet ball.

I recorded the whole pro day off NFL network and watched it a couple times. It was a good bit of water on the first wet ball. Wentz knew it was coming and tried to dry it some as Goff had. Pep shook his head and sprayed a bunch more water on the ball. Wentz just smiled, shook his head a little and chucked the 1st ball into the ground. He never had a good grip, but that seemed what Pep wanted. His next couple throws were on target, but then Pep wasn't hosing it down while he was getting his grip.

I agree about the amount of stock I hope the staff puts on the wet football gimmick. If rain is expected, I hope they'd have the QB practice and play with a glove.

QB Position Review from Walter Football

...I liked it better when most people doubted Wentz. Now "they" are saying safest and upside. If he goes number 1, I'm going to be...annoyed the entire draft.

I'm not really advocating the accuracy of Walter Football (I kind of rate the opinions there similar to what I do here), but they do update their content frequently.

(1) Paxton Lynch-nfl body, + athleticism, + arm talent, good production, played in offense that despite being a spread has NFL/WCO passing concepts (same offense as Andy Dalton)



(2) Connor Cook-nfl body, decent athleticism, decent arm talent, very good production, played in true NFL offense



(3) Carson Wentz-nfl body, + athleticism, good arm talent, good production, played in a true NFL offense BUT played with a decided schematic and organization advantage over competition



(4) Jared Goff-needs to bulk up, decent athleticism, decent arm talent, top production, played in a spread air raid offense and will have to transition into NFL offense



(5) Brandon Allen-smaller frame, average athleticism, average arm, good production, played in true NFL offense

Ranked 1-5 in the order I would select them

I'm kinda a draftnerd, I made my QB ranking before I knew Griffin would be a Brown.

I don't see where the sudden climb of Carson Wentz comes from. I don't have anything against the kid, I've even watched some of his cut-ups on draftbreakdown. But, when I look at all the QB prospects I don't see how/why he deserves to be the top rated.

If I had to pick a QB to start right away, Paxton Lynch would be at the top my list. Good production, good number of starts, big time arm and sneaky athleticism. Despite playing in a "spread" Memphis offense is run by Justin Fuentes and has pro-style WCO concepts. Justin Fuentes is the same coach that groomed Andy Dalton and made him into a plug and play QB as a rookie in Jay Gruden's offense without an offseason (lock-out).

You don't get the questions about level of competition with Wentz nor the size or scheme questions playing in a non-NFL spread with Goff.

I love Mike Mayock, but him saying Wentz and Goff rival Winston and Mariota is crazy to me.

Now when it comes to Wentz vs Cook, I really don't get it. Other then scouts being pissed that Cook skipped the Senior Bowl (which imo was the dumbest move ever). Then of course there is a hugely important part of the process that tape watching can never tell. Those "intangibles" etc. I'm in no position to judge intangibles without relying on hearsay which I avoid. So I can't speak to whether Cook has worse intangibles then Wentz. What I can see though is that Cook, like Wentz, plays in a pro-style offense. Except Cook has played against bigtime competition and played more and consequently has more attempts, yards, TDs etc. AND Wentz played at a program that is powerhouse in their conference, even without Wentz in the line-up North Dakota State was racking up wins.

That's my take, without the benefit of arguably the most important piece of evaluation...intangibles.

But judging on the film and tangibles only that's where I rank them.

Personally, I don't think the Browns are gonna select a QB at pick #2. I don't think they spend this much time on Griffin to select a QB at #2 pick and not play them. *shrugs*

Drafting a QB high isn't a value move, especially from a moneyball perspective. QBs have inflated value due to the position. Having a placeholder QB imo means you don't have to pay the premium on a 1st round (much less top 5 QB).

I think if you viewed Wentz/Goff as "franchise" QB you would draft them and play them or use McCown as placeholder.

I think they will draft a QB at spot where it becomes a value selection and develop that QB.

The intangibles and medical drop Lynch for me. I also like Wentz and Goff better for accuracy.

I'm torn on Cook. He was on a good team and played a bunch of relatively bad teams. His backups beat Ohio State. The intangible questions concern me. He isn't particularly consistent.

I like Wentz. His intangibles help push him to the top for me. I don't really see a limitation to his game. With our history of coaching/scheme changes, I like his versatility. While his competition in games is less than ideal, his competition in practice was pretty good. Supposedly he made Marcus Williams, the Jets CB who had 6 picks last season, look bad in practice frequently.

I'm not that high on Goff, either.

I haven't heard the medical questions for Lynch.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say intangibles?

Also, you down Cook for playing bad teams yet it seems like you give Wentz a pass for playing for a powerhouse program in FBS that only lost 1 game without him last season?

Supposedly they found bone chips encapsulated in Lynch's AC joint at the combine medical. He says they've been there and they don't bother him, but it doesn't sound like a good thing for a QB to have. Link

Intangibles is kind of my catch all. Leadership, work ethic, desire, off the field character/issues. Lynch's question is maturity. Fuente was quoted as saying he has some maturing he'll need to do. Having just experienced Manziel, I'm kind of gun shy on off the field concerns.

Link (I'm having trouble finding the Fuente quote now, but there's a reference to his need for mental and emotional development)

I see Cook and Wentz similarly there as far as competition/competitive situation. If you're going to hold it against one, why not the other? I don't think it's a huge deal for either. I like just about everything about Wentz besides the competition, and I think he's done all he could to mitigate that concern. Cook backed out of the Senior Bowl.

The new rookie salary cap makes it easy to draft a QB early, get the best talent at QB and still not over pay.

Looking at the numbers, top draft picks at QB have a far better success rate than waiting for what you call a value pick.

That's it, I'm changing my screen name to Jestereo!

I'm also a Lynch guy.

That's racist.

Romeo - I am pretty sure Cook declined the Senior bowl because he hadn't fully recovered from the shoulder injury he sustained late in the year. I think that injury is part of the reason he looked so bad against Alabama.

Grimm - Lynch's medical doesn't bother me at all. Those bone chips in the shoulder joint won't give him much trouble. If they start to give him any trouble what he'll feel is a little "catch" type discomfort when he throws. He won't need any intervention immediately. It can wait until after the season. The surgery is an easy surgery and would have a 4-8 week recovery.

I'm not a doctor but I slept at a holiday inn express last night. Oh wait, I am a doctor.

Grimm - How can you say Wentz and Goff had similar competition/competitive situation? Please explain.

Grimm is the same guy who preferred Wentz over Cousins because he said Cousins put his numbers up against weak defenses.

LOL...........I ain't joking. He really said that.

He played after the injury and was still training for football activities while the Sr. Bowl was going on. Why not train in Mobile? I'm sure they could have come up with a no contact arrangement. I agree the shoulder may have been part of the problem, but I think a larger part was the Alabama Defense was good. Wentz was coming off an injury, too, but he showed up and answered the bell.



What kind of doctor? Just curious.

If teams were "spooked" I believe there is some cause for concern. In a normal person, bone chips might not be a big deal in a shoulder. In an NFL QB, I'd imagine there'd be a lot more stress on that joint and a lot more potential for high intensity impacts. Also, due to the nature of bone, I'd assume that bone chips caused by a break would be relatively sharp increasing the risk for increased scarring and inflammation.



I said Wentz and Cook (Not Goff) had similar competitive situations. Both of their teams were generally superior to their competition. The rest of the B1G East Division was pretty bad outside of Michigan and Ohio State. Cook didn't play in the Ohio State game and his team still won. Also, I'm not sure that Michigan was really that good, and Cook completed less than 50% of his passes against them and should have lost the game if not for the terrible failed punt.

I did mention that Cousin's best games were against lesser D's. Do you dispute that?

I'm sorry that I raised a concern about a player you like. It's unfortunate that I don't agree with you on everything. I'm sorry that you feel that that makes me a bad person.

I also said that I didn't see any point in talking about Cousins as a QB for the Browns because he was most likely going to be franchised. Guess what, I was right.

But feel free to quote quotes that misquote me and then belittle me.

I have been thinking about the competition thing. Wondered what Wentz did in the Championship game:



Awesome................

It was his first game in 4 months coming off an injury. You don't mention his 3 TDs (1 pass, 2 Run). You don't factor in the gusting wind. You don't factor in the leadership factor. Did you even watch the game? Or did you start with the idea of contradicting me and then find any speck of data (hardly even worthy of the word information) that would support that position?

Awesome.

I'm right, you are wrong...and stupid. You can't win against a "legend"....please anal. guys pick Wentz...he is the real deal....GO Browns!!!!

Didn't know about the bone chips in his AC. But hand to the fire it doesn't change my evaluation of him very much.

I don't trust 'intangibles' because they are relayed 2nd/3rd hand so I don't factor them in, I just chalk them up as unknowable from my vantage point.

The competition question between Wentz and Cook isn't apples to apples though. Wentz issues are 2 fold: he not only played on a power house team but on a powerhouse team in a lower level of football. Cook having some weaker teams on the schedule doesn't make him different them most other QB prospects. For me I can't mark there differences in comp as equal. I don't think it's huge issue, but its a difference that imo has to be noted for comparison.

I do hold it against Cook for begging out of the Senior Bowl though...it didn't make much sense and ultimately I think it hurt him.

Jestereo-Didnt know that; either way he missed out on an opportunity to put his name into top dog consideration. Senior Bowl is geared for pro-style QBs.

Awesome post.

Perhaps I misjudged you. The "not the truth" comment rubbed me the wrong way. Perhaps you are legit.

You posting about other QBs has changed my opinion. Not that that means anything. LOL


Keep posting.

I don't know what kind of agreements are available for the senior bowl. My belief is that he declined because his shoulder was not fully recovered. He should have given that as a reason but I think he didn't want to cast doubt about his recovery. I think that was a mistake because it got twisted to his character questions. This is 100% supposition on my part.

Alabama did have a very good defense and I know that was part of his poor performance but looking at some of his throws, it is clear he wasn't 100%. I know the injury contributed some. You can get away with playing with an injury vs bad teams but against a good team your deficits are greatly magnified.

These evaluators get spooked by any little thing this time a year. If he was a normal person with this issues, no one would likely ever know - depending on how they use their arms for work or hobby. The people who have the most issues with this are professional pitchers. Typically you'll hear about it in their elbows.

I am double board certified in Internal Medicine and Infectious Diseases.

I totally mis-read that as Wentz and Goff. Must have been all the Wentz vs Goff discussionss. Regardless, I don't see how you can compare the teams NDST played to the teams MSU played. I would bet a lot of money that you could replace NDST with any of the 3 worst B1G teams and they would win that conference. Moot statement because it's one of those statements that I laugh at, easy to make because there is no way to prove or disprove it.

Did I miss anything? It's getting late and my eyelids are getting heavy.

Regarding Wentz competition - I have said this before in multiple posts. I don't hold this against him The point of the differences in level of competition vs the other Qb's is that it makes him harder to evaluate.

Wentz throws a 10 yard out that barely gets passed the Cb. If he makes that same throw vs a B1G teams Cb does it get through? Is it knocked down? Does it turn into a pick 6? Does he not make that throw and decide to throw to a different receiver?

There's no way to know. And that is what makes him more difficult to evaluate.I hear the argument about his teammates being the same level of talent as his opponents but I will tell you this. Put me on a good HS football team as their Qb and I promise you I will put up some pretty good numbers. Put me on any college team and I guarantee you that I will put up some really crappy numbers.