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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-will-continue/


Haslam knows that, until things change, the jokes will continue

Posted by Mike Florio on March 26, 2016, 7:12 PM EDT

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AP

The NFL is the ultimate zero-sum game. For every winner, there’s a loser. For every good team, there’s a bad team.

For most of the past generation, the Browns have been among the bad teams in the NFL. Owner Jimmy Haslam knows that, until this changes, the Browns will be the butt of jokes.

“Until we start winning, people are going to make fun of you,” Haslam said this week at the league meetings in Florida, via Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal. “So it’s our job to get the right people in place to hopefully turn this thing around like we all want to see, and we’re cautiously optimistic we’ve done that.”

The right people may be in place behind the scenes. But whether the right players are in place is a different issue, especially with receiver Travis Benjamin, safety Tashaun Gipson, center Alex Mack, and tackle Mitchell Schwartz departing via free agency.

“We all knew they were good players,” chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta said in Florida, via Ulrich. “We want to get to that point where we have enough of a critical mass of our core guys that it makes sense to retain them all. . . . That day, I think we all felt like, this is going to be our hardest day, and if we can get past this, then it’s looking up from here, which is good. I think we’ll be in a position going forward to go retain a lot of those guys.”

Haslam had similar views.

“We had a plan in place, and I think you have to look at those situations individually,” Haslam said. “[They’re] good players who made good contributions to the organization, but we have a plan in place, and we’re not going to panic and knee jerk over things.”

So how long will it take to turn things around?

“I think it’s multiple years,” Haslam said. “On the other hand, we have a very competitive head coach who wants to win every game. But the key theme to take away is that we feel really good about the group we have in place. They’re working together extremely well, and we’re going to be very patient with them and give them time to develop the plan we put together.”

The real question is whether Haslam will have the patience to see the current plan through. It’s easy to commit when the record is 0-0. If/when the losses mount, will Haslam lose faith in his latest new-look front office and coaching staff?

The answer won’t be known unless and until the struggles of past years continue into 2016.


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mac, much of what you're saying is true. This constant change does nothing building a football team. Having a great OL wins no doubt, but team overall is a mess.

This team has nothing constant. Successful teams have players retiring with another ready to take his place. We see every season when injuries occur. Second and third talent tier is low rate.

Key question do you continue investing in current players or gut it trying to setup some kind of revolving door system? I believe you can say "yes" to both. There are pros and cons for each.

Biggest issues Browns have it lacks any identity or blue print. We fans have no clue what are the key components. We look elsewhere saying Browns needs this guy to be successful like that team.

I thinks the Harvard guys chose to start with a clean canvas. Again, you can argue for or against if it is the best option. For now, it is the plan. Going this route puts heavy pressure on Haslam to not blowing it up. It will take at least two years to get respectable. Mangini took this approach. We saw Holmgren trying the "add to it" approach. In both cases, it simply needed time which nobody has patience.

Back to your original thought why do we need a strong OL? I'm not saying we don't need. Simply asking having an a strong OL does what to meet what objective?

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To the top...

Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: ddubia
So then you're right which invalidates any other point of view.


No, but he has a right to express his opinion w/out being called illogical, a coward, a hater, a Negative Nancy, etc...


vers...I'm to the point where I post my opinions with absolutely no regard for what someone else might think.

I know how long it took the Browns to finally build an offensive line that was not considered a joke..

I wonder if others know how long it took?...vers, I know you know..let's see if anyone else knows?

I find it interesting how some are willing to point to the offensive line and make the comment that the team was 3-13, how good could the Oline be?...how good could Mack and Schwartz be if the Browns went 3-13?

As bad as the Browns were in 2015, why would some outside analysts point to the Browns offensive line unit and consider them to be one of the better Olines in the NFL?

I believe the Browns Harvard educated front office puts a very low priority on the offensive line, evidence by their lack of concern over losing 40% of the Oline to free agency.

The big business brains look at Erving and since the Browns used a first round draft pick on him last season, he must be good enough to start, right? Instead of RG3 trying to revitalize his career behind a solid offensive line that can allow him time to drop back in the pocket and make his reads, RG3's first thought behind the Browns new Oline might be, "running for your life"..he better have his cleats laced up tight.

The thought of a franchise drafting a QB at #2 and "purposely" putting him behind an Oline that is suspect and a question mark..I can't help but say out loud, what the hell are these guys thinking?

The fact is, they are not thinking in terms of "football". I believe all of us know what the Harvard bunch was thinking with their Oline moves...most just don't want to admit it or say it. With the Oline moves the business boys have made so far, it must be pointed out that they ultimately decided on the "cheapest" options.

Imagine that, the business boys front office making a "business first" decisions. I'm sure businessman owner Haslam liked the moves.

It took this franchise a long time to realize the offensive line is the most important "unit" of the football team...but it only took our Harvard educated business boys one free agency period to destroy nearly half of the Oline.

I'm being "realistic", with my focus on "football". I know there are good reasons why some franchise do all they can to keep their Oline unit together..it is the most important unit of a football team.

With the Browns Oline being much less of a priority for our business educated front office, how much will it hurt the team and what could possibly go wrong?

jmho...mac



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Quote:
mac, much of what you're saying is true. This constant change does nothing building a football team. Having a great OL wins no doubt, but team overall is a mess.


With the offensive line in tact, Hues offense would have a sound foundation. Now with nearly half the offensive line kicked out of Cleveland by the Big Brain boys, Hue's offense has more holes to fill.

Football wise, what Sashi did makes zero sense.


Quote:
This team has nothing constant.


bugs...oh yes they did! The offensive line was the only constant on the team...and what did Sashi do about that?

Quote:
Back to your original thought why do we need a strong OL? I'm not saying we don't need. Simply asking having an a strong OL does what to meet what objective?


bugs...if you don't know the answer to this question...nothing I can say will help you.

Very few know much about the offensive line...including the big brains.


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Originally Posted By: ddubia
So then you're right which invalidates any other point of view.


In case you missed it ddub, which I doubt that you did, I said it depends on one's point of view.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: mac
bugs...if you don't know the answer to this question...nothing I can say will help you.

Very few know much about the offensive line...including the big brains.


You miss understood. Based on what you are seeing the Harvard Boys build, what objective does having a strong OL resolve? Right now I don't know any objective. Hard criticizing their plan if it is unknown. Equally hard understanding what they are doing too.

I don't post often enough, but I am totally in favor having a strong DL and OL. I think you can do a lot with little play makers having those positions fortified. I don't know what the Harvard Boy's objective.

One thing I do know you don't need first/second round talent across the board to be strong. I am a believer in balance. Team end of last year was heavily invested in OL personal. They drafted a first round player with no place to play.

What I didn't approve Cleveland got nothing in return for Mack and Schwartz. Balancing project resulted in lower the quality of the OL. Waiting until the last month resolving contract issues was stupid. Again I have no idea who's call was to wait to sign both. If Farmer, they resolved this issue from reacquiring.

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Originally Posted By: bugs

You miss understood. Based on what you are seeing the Harvard Boys build,


I haven't seen them build anything.

Over 40+ years of studying the game, I've seen how important a strong OL is for run blocking and protecting your QB. Without a strong OL, both will suffer.

But I must ask, what have you see the Harvard boys build?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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bugs was actually objective in that post. He addressed both sides of the coin.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: bugs

You miss understood. Based on what you are seeing the Harvard Boys build,


I haven't seen them build anything.

Over 40+ years of studying the game, I've seen how important a strong OL is for run blocking and protecting your QB. Without a strong OL, both will suffer.

But I must ask, what have you see the Harvard boys build?


The "Harvard Boys" as you so eloquently state have not built anything...yet! Neither have they torn anything apart. You may have 40 years of studying the game, but you do not have the inside track on the happenings in Berea, period. None of us do. Does it suck that we lost Mack and Schwartz, yes, but it is not the end of the world.

You and others keep stating that the "Harvard Boys" just let them walk, especially Schwartz; however, Mack has already been quoted as saying he wanted out and the only thing that really gave him pause was the other OLmen and the community. If Mack wanted to be here, he would have been. He took less money to go to a team with the potential of winning sooner rather then later.

Schwartz is a mystery because no one but the agent and the "Harvard Boys" know what truly went down. I tend to side with Sashi as out of all the things that have been said of him internally, outside of the organization, and other FAs that had dealing with them indicated that things were professionally handled.

Like I said in another post, if Schwartz really wanted to be a Brown he would have taken the offer that was given to him as it was more than fair; however, when he went out into free agency to test his worth and found out that no one would give him what they expected they supposedly came back and the "Harvard Boys" said take a hike. We will never know if that is true or not as Sashi said they did not pull the offer. Both sides have reasons to make themselves look less culpable in the situation so again we will never truly know.

Does losing two above average OLmen hurt, yes, but neither you nor I nor anyone else can speak with certainty what the "Harvard Boys" plan of attack is. You chose to bash and belittle while others, myself included, are intrigued and want to give the braintrust a chance to work their plan.

The question shouldn't be whether or not they have a plan, but more along the lines of will Haslem truly give them the time to complete the plan as it has been laid out?

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Originally Posted By: bugs
Originally Posted By: mac
bugs...if you don't know the answer to this question...nothing I can say will help you.

Very few know much about the offensive line...including the big brains.


You miss understood. Based on what you are seeing the Harvard Boys build, what objective does having a strong OL resolve? Right now I don't know any objective. Hard criticizing their plan if it is unknown. Equally hard understanding what they are doing too.

I don't post often enough, but I am totally in favor having a strong DL and OL. I think you can do a lot with little play makers having those positions fortified. I don't know what the Harvard Boy's objective.

One thing I do know you don't need first/second round talent across the board to be strong. I am a believer in balance. Team end of last year was heavily invested in OL personal. They drafted a first round player with no place to play.

What I didn't approve Cleveland got nothing in return for Mack and Schwartz.
Balancing project resulted in lower the quality of the OL. Waiting until the last month resolving contract issues was stupid. Again I have no idea who's call was to wait to sign both. If Farmer, they resolved this issue from reacquiring.


Except we're not getting nothing for Mack and Schwartz. We'll get compensatory picks.


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Oh brother.........

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: bugs

You miss understood. Based on what you are seeing the Harvard Boys build,


I haven't seen them build anything.

Over 40+ years of studying the game, I've seen how important a strong OL is for run blocking and protecting your QB. Without a strong OL, both will suffer.

But I must ask, what have you see the Harvard boys build?

Pitt, we agree.

I'm simply pointing out it is hard to knock, to a point, these guys until we see something. They let Mack and Schwartz walk. Ok, what is the plan? We don't know. Maybe, debatable, they make it work.

Again, there are a lot of unknowns here. I totally get yours and Vers argument. They are not helping themselves. I'm taking a different path. I'm a wait see. I'm not a negative person. I prefer to see the positive. Right now the Harvard Boys are making it difficult, but I like to see what they got. It's so screwed up anything they do maybe a improvement!

You and I disagreed about blowing it up. You stated it can't get much worse. I was against it stating it will get ugly. So far, I don't think it is as ugly as I thought. For starters, they didn't hire another rookie coach. Actually, hiring Hue gave me an ounce of hope.

Vers, thanks, it was exactly my pont.

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refs...feel free to close this thread if you want...my discussion will continue in the other threads...


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I see your opinion - I don't agree with it mac. I think possibly you misunderstood what we did. You call it a pre-meditated throw away the OL. Which I don't think happened.

I think both OL made up their mind to leave and for us to keep them here...we could be just a lateral contract from what they are getting but to over pay way more than what we wanted to keep them here. So they made a decision to stop at some point.

They didn't go into this with screw these guys we want to do an entire rebuild so FA we didn't pick are going to go.

They made fair offers. But were not going to way over pay. Some teams out there btw had to spend a certain amount of money and then all agents were wow if so and so got this my guy can get that.

I think we stuck to our guns on what we were going to spend. If the two Mack and Schwartz wanted to stay here...they both would be here.

jmho


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