DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...not ready for prime time...

It sounds like he was. It also sounds like Banner shut it down.

That article was on the subject of Haslem firing Banner. Of course he was involved in it.

This whole thing has gotten out of hand. I don't think anyone is trying to deceive anyone by stating their opinions. None of us are writers with the perfect words and perfect grammar to express ourselves. But express ourselves, we do.

To accuse someone of intentional deception is way out there in my opinion. The very act of it sounds like an attempt to discredit someone over their opinion.

I made a similar post to Tab's pretty much stating the same overall opinion. In prelude I wrote a long disclaimer stating that it is all my own conjecture and opinion. In that post you found a false statement and brought it to my attention. I later retracted that statement, but, why was I not accused of trying to deceive people for that?

We can't include disclaimers with every sentence we post for fear someone will bring accusations against us for being a liar, nay, an intentional liar, for what we said.

I have a novel idea, how about we all post our opinions. If someone says something we don't agree with or even don't agree with the way they said it then we then question them on that. Maybe they'll provide a link and explain how they interpret that link, maybe they'll stand pat, maybe they'll adjust the wording of their statement so it sounds more like what they meant or maybe, maybe they'll admit they got it wrong if they did, (it could happen).

But this flinging the trying to deceive label on someone who is only trying to present their conjecture/opinion is an overly aggressive way to disagree.

Vers, where did you get this information? I would like to read that. Thanks.

Pretty sure he is just trying to make a point that anyone can make stuff up and say it as fact.

LOL.............yes, you are right.

I guess it shows the dangers or benefits [depending on how you look at it] of posting opinions as fact.

And my first question in ALL of this was to ask tab if it was his opinion or fact. I'm sorry, I do not think it is a "fact" that Haslam has never had a hand in things before and this is his first "creation," thus we should absolve him of all the problems of the past.

Read it again:



I will start w/this one: Who the heck hired Farmer as "GM" if not Haslam?

Again, opinions are great. We all have them. It just read as factual and that is why my first question was is this your opinion or is fact?

Btw.........he keeps calling me a bully. Bullies don't fight 1 against 4.

Sure, they do. For whatever reason, you have clout here. At times, you can use it like a club. Multiple new posters spoke and you swatted them. That seems pretty bullying.

In my experience, the best way to deal with a bully is to bully back. Who is seen as the bully does depend on perspective. The best solution is for everyone to stay civil. Otherwise, things just continue to escalate out of control.

.02

Like the post I pulled this quote from?

Yes, that was me being civil.

I'm surprised that you hadn't read the book yet Vers? You haven't heard the fable of "The Evil Banner"?

"The Story Of The Evil Banner"

Once upon a time in a land far, far away known as Believeland, an evil plot was executed. Thirty one unscrupulous billionaires hatched this plot. They held a legal monopoly known as the NFL. It was a tight nit club that wanted no competition. As such, they found an innocent and good man known as The Innocent Haslam on which to spring this conniving plan.

To enter their club, they strapped The Innocent Haslam with indeed what was a pure evil doer known as The Evil Banner. Soon after this plot was executed, the Evil Banner put The Innocent Haslam into a deep trance. The trance allowed The Evil Banner to take full control over the decision making, leaving The Innocent Haslam powerless to make any decisions. This would insure that the thirty one unscrupulous billionaires would have no competition to deal with coming from The Innocent Haslam.

The trance allowed The Evil Banner to make it possible for The Innocent Haslam to talk to his fans, hold press conferences and even sit in on the important decision making meetings, yet have no voice in any matters as to who were hired. The plot of the unscrupulous billionaires had succeeded far beyond their wildest expectations!

But The Evil Banner made a big mistake! He hired a well intentioned and dedicated man we call The Sashi. The Sashi was nothing like the thirty one unscrupulous billionaires. He was nothing like The Evil Banner. He wanted nothing but success and goodness for The Innocent Haslam. He found a magic potion to deliver The Innocent Haslam from his long induced trance.

Now, he and The Innocent Haslam can lead the great fans of Believeland to the promised land! Now they can see the true greatness they deserve! The thirty one unscrupulous billionaires now tremble with fear at the boundless possibilities that will no doubt unfold in Believeland. The land now rejoices!

I can't believe you haven't seen this before? It's been flying off the book shelves! But I heard a sequel is being written as we speak. The information being leaked says the title will be...

"The Evil Sashi.. Revenge of the Evil Banner"

Coming to a book store near you. BTW- Both of these books can be found in the fiction aisle.

It was Haslem I believe. He just fired Banner and Lombardi which left him with no GM nor Personnel guy. There was no one else to do the hire so Haslem promoted Farmer into the GM role/title. Who else would have done that hire? Everybody else was gone.

That's how I saw it.

You missed your calling.

I highly doubt that. Does the name J.R.R. Tolkien ring a bell?

It does, but I wasn't really going that far. I was thinking more along the lines of satirical journalist in the subject of your choosing.

I thought Moe fired Larry and Curly... then Joe Besser

j/c:

There have been a lot of posts since I asked that we try and separate facts from opinions. Not ONE person has agreed w/me that it is important.

I could have sworn that Purp used to insist that we not post rumors or untrue items and he used to ask for links? Maybe not, but that's how I remember it. I always thought that was a good idea, because while we can fight like cats and dogs w/our differing opinions, I think it is extremely important to fight fairly.

Not one person has agreed w/my stance and several have actually come after me rather aggressively and defended tab's comments. No problem............y'all make the rules. I'll play by the same rules if that is what y'all want.

It's pretty amazing how things went down last year. Haslam was going back and forth about firing either Pet or Farmer, but he really wasn't going to fire both.

Out of the blue, a representative of Nick Saban contacted Haslam and said that Nick might be interested in resurrecting the Browns. He said he loved his time in Cleveland when he was the DC under Bill Belichick. He said he believed he could use many of BB's same principals and a few more that he had learned in Alabama to make Cleveland a true title contender.

Well, when Nick Saban comes-a-calling, people listen. Haslam was intrigued by the idea. Discussions commenced immediately. Saban's reps insisted that Nick have complete control of every aspect of the Browns. Coaching. Drafting. Free agency. Control of the roster. Which cleaning service to employ.

Well, you know ole' Jimmy is a pretty stubborn, southern boy and he was a bit reluctant to give Saban control of everything.

Negotiations were intense. The two parties finally reached a deal. They were about to sign the contract that would bring Nick Saban to Cleveland and then Mrs. Haslam stepped in. There are several rumors out there as to why she jumped on board at that particular point in time, but none have actually been verified.

One such rumor is that Mrs. Haslam viewed the Browns as one of her reality tv shows. Those shows thrive on dissension. Back-stabbing. Trials. Tribulations, gosh darn-it! Nick Saban would not help w/any of those things. Who the heck wants stability, strong leadership, and wins when one can have the reality show that is the Cleveland Browns attempting to do what no one has ever done before. They will be trend setters. They will evolutionize the NFL. And hey, if they don't.........it buys them another 3-4 years of the fans being patient. How in the world can hiring Nick Saban trump that???

jmho

RUMORS If you cannot cite a source when posting information to the board, please do not post it at all. Saying that you saw something on television or heard it on the radio is not sufficient as a valid source. Rumors do not lend to valid discussion and will be removed when seen by a moderator.

CUT AND PASTED ARTICLES If you cut and paste an article from a news source or another site, be sure to include proper credit as to the source of the article. If you didn't write the piece yourself, provide credit as to who did write it. A link is the preferred method, but including the author and the source where the piece was retrieved from is sufficient in most cases. Posts in violation of this will be deleted when observed by the moderators. Additionally, posts from other message boards are not to be re-posted on this forum. Posting articles/info from premium sites that are obtained by subscription (i.e.: ESPN Insider, Bernie’s Insider’s, etc...) is not allowed.

Finally!

Thanks so much, bro.

Wait..........tab's post is still there....WTH????????

I haven't really read his posts, is he claiming what is he is saying is fact or is he saying it his view on what happened?

I won't say, cfrs...........read it for yourself. However, you have to read the posts preceding his, as well. There is a theme there.

I'm good.

Would you like our citations in MLA or APA format?

Vers, could you look at the fact that he went out to the head hunter group to help in looking for HC candidates as a signal that he understood his deficiency? I am looking at it that way and hoping that the trend will continue.

1) Big Brains are in charge.

2) Haslam is in charge.

One of these things is not like the other.

Until we can find a group that can draft some FOOTBALL players, not losers - it doesn't matter who the owner, coach and etc is.

Especially now factoring we have alot of holes proned to get populated with rookies. I hope Moneyball can help us draft because if we hit home runs, everyone will forget the veterans we let walk and we will actually start getting somewhere. Years of piss poor drafting is one of the biggest setbacks throughout the years.

Not addressing this point directly, but if memory serves me, the Banner search for HC & staff after, another "leave no stone unturned" committee search was a string of interviews that stretched on and on as interviewees got signed and so were passed over so we could look under more rocks. I believe Arians was one of the "search casualties" who really wanted to come back here. Not who the driving force, assume it was Banner, who prolonged this, and before his release seemed to indicate that there was parade yet to come. I questioned, and I am sure others did as well, what the devil we were looking for as it dragged on. They must not have found what they wanted or were unable to sell Cleveland perhaps. But the idea of keeping too many on the string was bad handling IMO. My evaluation was we had no clear vision of what we wanted or our priorities for "turning around the culture" yet again.

Bottom line: I think we were forced to settle because of stupid handling of the process. This search which produced Hue seemed to have clearer parameters and priorities. Glad we landed a top candidate according to the Kool-Aid Index of Pigskin, at least. Props to the process handling if it has success.

Moneyball, analytics, agendas, preventing Banner's attempt to grab more (bad) power that was in play, releasing some of the best we had in roster spots, we seem hell-bent on weakening ourselves further than needed and complicating our draft needs. Doubt the draft can restore the good that left.

We only have two hopes as i see it: This coaching staff and schemes compensate for needs and grows up talent for later; and that is able to happen if we draft some genuine talent and gear what we do to their skills (ex. to avoid, drafting pass rushers and dropping them into dumb coverage sets). Time to fan up IMO. Hope they can improve.

LOL at the drama here! Who gives a squat what happened in the past. We either start selecting the best talent or we'll continue to suck.

Mac, I truly feel the players they let go has already led to instability. We see first hand that top pick linemen can struggle and it's definitely not a guarantee they can be anything but a liability (Cameron primer example) and now, we have two holes that'll get filled with who knows what.

But if that's their approach, then okay. You just cannot fubar up draft picks then. Which our history suggest that's exactly what we'll do.

Nope sorry, they need to select the best talent available (coaches & players) and forget about everything that's happened to this team in the last 16 years. Put this crap to rest, nobody cares about our past suckage. Time to start putting real talent together or we'll continue to suck.

That's never going to happen. The only standards that must be met are the rules of the board...

Is this what they call a paradox? You tell me what to do two times in one sentence, yet you also tell me to stop telling posters what to do. Interesting.



Who is it that said, "stop telling posters how to post...?" Oh, and this isn't about me liking Banner. It's about you acting like Haslam had not part in past hires.



Do you have a link for that?



When in doubt.........insult.

Btw victim..........you should have never, ever called me a coward.

I think Mitchell's agent fudged that situation all up, personally. With that said, I think the staff entered free agency with little to no concern about our pending vets. I think that decision was made shortly after the staff was fully put together.

I also think they're shuffling around like crazy. I felt Hue was sincere and emotional kind of when discussing the late release of Donte. Made it seem like they had so much going on, they simply just hadn't had a chance to discuss the matter.

This year I'm taking as a trial year for our new staff to get a feel and for what's soon to be a rookie packed football team.

We'll see. It can all be easily forgotten or stored away in the "I don't care" vault if players they draft show up on the field, instead of on the bench/news headlines.

I think one of the uses of analytics we're using may be placing monetary values on the different positions rather than individual players (or in addition to player talent through some sort of formula). We may have x% of the cap allotted for center, x% allotted for RT, x% allotted for a return specialist. Those guys may have wanted more than those numbers whatever they may be.

I can understand how that thinking could have resulted in what happened. If we'd been likely to make the playoffs, I'd hope we'd have kept those players. Since we're in full rebuilding mode, I don't think locking in a large portion of the cap to those positions makes a whole lot of sense.

Without knowing the bigger plan it is hard to grade anything yet. I think the only grade we can fairly give is incomplete. Not looking good, but incomplete rather than failing.