DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Mock Drafts part 3

I hope you are right. That would set us up amazingly and would really give us a chance to turn this around. I still don't see it happening, but I hope it does.

Reading your report he sounds a lot like Tebow to me. I might try to watch some film of him over the weekend.

I mainly focused on the top 3 QBs.

Yikes. I must have done a terrible job. He's not Tim Tebow.

He is a poor man's Phillip Rivers if anyone.

I am not a fan of highlight reels, but here is the one that was on the top of the page I just googled. You can see how long his delivery is, how he stands in the pocket, his arm strength, keeping his eyes downfield while scrambling, some accuracy issues when his feet get too far apart, etc....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6gwIDMAnDE

....that may be the worst throwing motion I've seen in a FBS quarterback. Ick. It looks like it takes an awful long time.

How hasn't he fixed that before now? If he hasn't yet, will he be able to?

It's hard to get a feel on the leadership angle from those highlights. I have heard good things in regards to that on walterfootball and NFL.com, but I haven't seen enough to get a read on that myself.

The leadership comments were from his teammates and coaches.

I wouldn't trade up for any WR this year. Plenty of solid talent out there, but none are outstanding.

I like Mike Thomas a lot. I think he was under used at OSU. I'd take a flyer on Jalin Marshall late as well. He got benched for some fumbles but he is a gamer and fast.

I just think that Buckeye team was loaded with NFL talent, not just great in college.

Doesn't Rivers have more of a short quick, 3/4 release? Hogan has a huge windup.

Yeah, I meant that both have whacky mechanics. Both tough. Both good leaders. Similar builds.

You live out there. What's your take on Hogan?

Man..........those pics. I don't know if I have seen anyone bring it back that far.

Hogan was dreadful in 2014. Like to the point they talked about benching him dreadful. It turns out his father was dying of cancer throughout the entire season and he didn't tell anyone.

In 2015 he was much better. He definitely knows how to read coverage, make line calls, go through his progressions, drop back from under center, etc. Stanford's offense is pro style, but also pretty weird (they had seven offensive linemen on the field sometimes). Hogan really improved last season (it helped that he had the best player in the country in his backfield and catching passes), but he was not asked to do much after the ball was snapped.

The things that scare me the most are his release and that his accuracy wains at times (overthrows). I'd take him late in the draft and hope to fix his throwing motion. He already knows how to do many of the things QBs have to learn in the NFL.

I called this out a while ago. It is one of two things (1) overall he was pretty successful at Stanford so they left him alone or (2) it isn't fixable. That is what the NFL teams need to figure out. Seeing that early on he was 4th/5th round territory and now is 6th/7th/FA, I'm guessing teams don't think it can be fixed.

This being said, I'm a fan and would love to draft him late. I have a friend on the Stanford staff - nothing but good things said about him, and I've watched most of their games the last couple years. There's a ton to love about the guy, and one potentially huge pitfall. With a QB guy like Hue (and Hogan' former coach in Pep), I think he could at minimum be a solid backup.

Kind of related, but unrelated, I just read this:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-d...s-show-interest

It makes me giddy thinking we could draft Tunsil, Doctson, and Hogan (you'll see those names in my mocks above).

That´s correct , i see a some problems at the o-line.(Loss of Mack,Schwartz).
Maybe we see Greco at C (Erving is not a sure thing) , than we can use Garnett directly at RG.
Don´t know it Bitonio a fit at RT...time will tell.



QB or die. In my opinion we can not get tired to find the signal-caller. It´s the only way out of the tunnel...



That´s correct.



Same here , you are correct. I must take a look ad D and i know that.



Damn´it, i don´t see the Howard-pick.
Thank you very much for the named players- very,very interesting.
Later i post an upgradet draft-list and a new player-list.

@all : sorry about my terrible english , it´s very rusty. I must work on that.

Thanks. Your take is almost identical to what I posted in my initial post about Hogan.

I have not seen this yet....But if we do trade back and with the way everyone on here seems to think Hue wants to do alot of running, doesn't it make sense to drop back and pick up a couple of more 2nd rounders and then draft Elliot? Then you have a double threat in the Duke and Elliot. We get a play maker on O and use our 2nd's on the D. Sounds like a plan.

You say "all assume......" Who assumed that? I didn't recall one poster saying that.

What are you talking about?

With the analytics guys calling the shots, pretty much no chance of us taking Elliot. I really like the kids talent and he is a top 5 talent but his position probably pushes him into a Phins uni. I really dont see anyone inside the top 10 with a real need at RB. Maybe the Giants but they have so many other needs.

Your probably right ; But passing up on weapon like Elliot is really , really Dump ~

1) His feet are way, way, way too wide. That's going to force him to overuse his hips and upper body.

2) He starts off with the ball in good position, but then goes into a Tebow. He has to gear up to torque his body to over-correct for his bad feet.






That not only hurts accuracy, but will lead to a lot of strip sacks.

3) The last part of his delivery is almost sidearm and this is because he is overusing his hips to compensate for his feet being too wide in the first picture. His momentum is sideways instead of over the top like in this picture.



Sometimes on guys like this you can get lucky and once you correct their feet the rest falls into place. Other times, you have to literally rebuild everything in the throwing motion from scratch.

Or, is it possible that in those pics, he was trying to throw a long ball, with plenty of time in the pocket.

You know, trying to throw to a guy streaking down the field in what would be a 40, 50, 60 yard completion? I'd like to see that play in real time.

Same with Tebow. Look at his eyes, and where he's looking. Probably deep.

Same with Manning, and Brady. You can tell by their eyes they were throwing short passes.

Not attacking you. Just saying one set of pictures doesn't necessarily mean conclusive evidence.

Throwing it longer is not a reason to let your mechanics go. In fact he would be able to throw it longer if his mechanics were better.

He is wasting all his motion sideways instead of using it to put distance on the ball.

It's just like Golf. Where you listen to a Golf Pro and improve your mechanics, you'll hit it farther.

This kid isn't perfect, but the series of pictures gives you a general idea on how it should look.

Over all, perhaps.

But if you can throw the ball acurately, with perfect mechanics, only 30 yards, but your receiver is open 45 yds. down field, and there's nobody in your face, I think it's okay to get some extra "oomph" in the throw.

You would think that, but the mechanics is how you get the extra oomph in your throw.

Like I said, it's like why guys pay good money to a golf pro to fix their swing.

Show me a guy with bad mechanics that has a long deep ball and I'll show you a guy that could throw it even longer with better mechanics.

Most of the time, I would agree with you. About proper mechanics.

But come on. When there's no pressure in your face, and you're going deeper than you normally can, you take that extra wide step, you put your body into it more so than on the 15 yd. slant.

JMO, I'm not an nfl coach. But, neither are you, right?

That extra wide step back does nothing. No matter where that back foot goes, your front foot should follow, so both feet need to move the same distance. It's the step forward that is where the power comes from. And you can't make the right step forward if your feet are too wide. Look at his feet again in the upper left pic and the lower right pic. They are in the same spot. He forced himself to try to do everything with his hips. That's also why his delivery is almost sidearm. So he messed up his accuracy and his power just by having his feet too wide.

It's more about habit than anything.

You get drilled in this so much that it's just second nature. If it changes because of pressure, it's just because you haven't made it habit yet. Once it's habit, the only way it changes is by you forcing it to change.

And no I'm not a coach, but I did play and I studied the game of football more than a lot of people.

It's fine not to agree. I'm not taking it as personal or anything.

I would hope you don't take it personal, because it isn't.

And with that said, we need the season to get here because there's too much "personal" stuff going on. In every thread. JMO

Michael Vick flicks his wrist and the ball goes 40 yards on a rope..

Try it both ways, Arch, and see which goes further.

Cock it back slightly further up top maybe, but down to the waist is just wasting motion. As for the step, there is an optimum range. Go beyond it and same thing, wasted motion.

Think about it, who produces more instantaneous power, a shorter striding sprinter or a long striding distance runner?

With that lower loop, the force has to be going in the wrong direction unless he's trying to throw the ball through his linemens' waists.

Scratch Shawn Oakman off the list (not that many wanted him anyway).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...ation/82793814/

Totally agree with that.

Actually, I was talking football. We were talking about Hogan as a qb. Then, you came in w/your big mouth and said this:



That's football talk?

No doubt his mechanics are going to need an overhaul. I think I mentioned that right off the bat.

We also have to consider that we're not taking him in the first 4 rounds or so. This is a guy we can maybe get in the 5th--7th.

Put it this way...........the chances of fixing mechanics is a whole lot more doable than fixing a guy who can't read post-snap coverages.

He's a project just like a lot of other QB's in this draft. As long as we go into things knowing that we need to invest some time and aren't expecting instant results, his odds are as good as a lot of other guys getting drafted higher.

And if we are lucky and fixing his feet fixes everything else, he'll be ready sooner rather than later.

Dallas will sign him as an undtrafted free agent.