DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...not ready for prime time...

Lets spend our money on more guys like Truman Williams and Bowe. Brilliant!!! Everyone says build through the draft then we dont and it fails. Yet these guys are dead set on doing it the boring way and everyone thinks they are morons.

Lets see what they do before we fire up the torches. Car doesnt look to good when the mechanic is removing the old parts. Now lets just hope they find the right replacement parts.

I have to say this news,if true,is baffling.Makes zero sense.
On the surface this smells of big ego,as in Sashi doesn't need to hear what the guys who have been in the trenches all year scouting these players have to say about them.
I realize the reports have been filed,but,over and over again we hear of scouts getting up on the table pushing for their guy.
I guess the moneyball boys couldn't budget for the pizza party for all the scouts.

I agree w/you. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened like "positive" posters do. I wish they would stop w/them pretending to know the all the answers.

Here is what I do know.........the Browns lost some good players. They had a lot of holes to begin with. They now have more holes. That is not a good thing.

If someone [like me] tries to say that, they get bombarded w/guys spouting off opinions as facts.

Furthermore, I really don't think it matters if they wanted to leave or not. In fact, if they did want out, that is even more of an indictment on how terrible things are in Cleveland under the leadership of Haslam and Brown. People keep forgetting/overlooking that Sashi was in charge of contract negotiations.

Then, we got guys on here telling us we should not talk about losing the free agents because it is in the past. Those very same people were talking about when Banner was here. Uhmmmm guys.........that is in the past.

People might not like to hear the criticism, but until the draft and then the games begin, there isn't much more to talk about other than what the Browns have accomplished thus far. It's too early to make any huge evaluations, but thus far, the results have been ugly.

It seems like almost every move the Browns make under Haslam is about money.

Metrics say we can successfully rebuild with just Hue and WalterFootball.com.

Ya forgot Dee, the real decision maker

She has a large voice in the organization, just not sure it's in this particular space.

The scouts have already done their work. This is no big deal.

With analytics we don't need scouts,just bigger computers and data entry people.Everything can be done in Berea,saving the Haslams alot of money.
I can't really blame the guy,with as many people as he's fired and still paying their salaries,this NFL might not be as big a bonanza as he envisioned.

So we didn't go to the Superbowl last year because we didn't pay our o-line enough?

They would have blocked better if we had paid them more?

The teams in the playoffs drafted well and then spent money.

Spending money on guys that are retired when we make a playoff run isn't going to help us one bit and we need too many pieces to be wasting money on players that won't be there with us we do. DO YOU GET THAT?

No you don't. I know. I've heard it over and over in multiple 300 post threads.

I didn't like that we didn't sign Schwartz. That's the only one that bothered me because he was young enough to be there for the stretch run and the price he signed for wasn't crazy. Something obviously happened between Sashi and his agent though and they didn't get a deal done. I'm not going to whine about it too much because I don't know what happened.

You can spend all the money you want trying to put turbo charger on the Yugo if you want, but in my opinion, the little brained guys might want to take the big brained mechanic's advice and save that money for a better car first and add the upgrades later.

Sounds like a plan! Refuse to sign quality FA's until we're "ready for a run", hope we hit on multitudes of draft picks and don't worry that we'll look like crap in the mean time and don't really try to compete.

I LOVE it!

That's the part that is hard to get over for everyone, but it's true.

It's going to be easier to hit on those draft picks if they are at the top of the round rather than the middle of it.

We could have spent all of our money this year and played a little less crappy, but crappy none the less, with the only award being a worse drafting spot.

Thats the thing, we spent more money on defense last year than any other team by a lot and yet we only had 3 games in which we held the opponent under 24 pts. It took the titans and 49ers crapfest and hurricane winds and a weak armed alex smith to get those 3.

I have no issue blowing up that defense at all. I cant imagine this team even with the loses to the D being any worse. This team was horrid.

Offensively, we will see. We may suck we may not but I hated watching last years team. I honestly didnt care whether or not I saw the games.

I am interested in seeing what Hue, duke Johnson and RG3 can do with this O. D was the worst in the league so at worst it stays the same.

Tell me which is better long term?
In both cases the cap is $150 mil every year to make things easier.

Example 1

Year 1) spend $150 mil and save $0 for next year. Draft #2 overall. Go 6-10 for the year.

Year 2) spend $150 mil and save $0 for next year. Draft #15 overall. Go 8-8 for the year.

Year 3) spend $150 mil and save $0 for next year. Draft #15 overall. Go 8-8 for the year. Have $0 extra going into year 4

Example 2

Year 1) spend $100 mil and save $50 mil for next year. Draft #2 overall. Go 0-16 for the year.

Year 2) spend $100 mil and save $100 mil for next year. Draft #1 overall. Go 4-12 for the year.

Year 3) spend $100 mil and save $150 mil for next year. Draft #5 overall. Go 8-8 for the year. Have $150 mil extra going into year 4.

In both cases your 8-8 in year 3 but in example 1 you are an older team with no extra money to spend.

Yes this is over simplified, but I didn't want to go all "Big Brained" on anyone.

So you are advocating trading Joe Thomas,as he is highly paid and won't be around when/if this team gets good.
Where do you draw the line,6 yr.guys,4 yr.guys,2 yr.guys,rookies?
It's going to be a long,long,long time before this team even sniffs .500 let alone playoffs.
By your line of thinking they should get rid of every one on roster today,bring in garbage and hope and pray they can hit on every draft pick.
Sounds like a plan.

My point is that we aren't going to the Superbowl a year from now, so it really isn't going to make any difference. I would have preferred that we kept Schwartz, but we didn't and it's over.

Just what exactly am I making excuses for when we haven't even played a game yet? There is one guy that is been digging deep for multiple threads here and I don't think it's me. We haven't played a game yet. At least wait till the sky starts falling Chicken Little.




Donte Whitner will give you that answer when he's the announcer in our next playoff game. He'll talk about the young key players on the team who got to play for those 4 years because the older Vets weren't standing in front of them. He'll talk about that 3 or 4 year vet Center that we have instead of Mack in the decline of his career.



Yeah like the Superbowl winners Denver!

They kept their starting QB from last year, backup QB, starting TE, back-up TE, starting DE, starting ILB.

Well at least they weren't as stupid as us losing 2/5ths of their offensive line. Oops, they lost 3/5ths.

They'll lose Von Miller next year too because they shot their wad and are broke and will have even more holes to fill going forward.





You may have forgot that Mack's contract is close to $50 mil and he is un-cuttable for the next 4 of the 5 total years. With $50 mil you can pay about 100 years worth of minimum contracts and about 10 years worth of decent veteran contracts. Now we could have paid him that and after he retired he could give moral support to the younger guys when we are making a playoff run or even give some solid advice to that rookie center that we are now playing that didn't get drafted until now because we were paying Mack $50 million, but that's about all the help he could be.

I know this is "Big Brain" thinking but little brains just might be able to understand that spending money just to spend it isn't that smart if the guys that you are spending it on will be in an old-age home by the time you make a playoff run.

I like when you talk football. You are very smart in that regard. However, you are really reaching in that post.

Let's keep it real.

I've already said that Joe should stay if he wants or go if he wants. If he goes though we should get more than a first rounder for him. Unlike Mack, he is under a very team favorable contract. A contract that a lot of other teams would be lining up for.

This isn't my line of thinking. I didn't come up with the plan. I'm just trying to explain to guys crying like two year olds that just got their bottles taken away that the world isn't ending and if things were as simple as they think that they are, they'd be the big brains in the front office right now.

There are a lot of NFL teams that drafted poorly and just tried to buy their way to the Super Bowl. It doesn't end well.

Ahhhh............yet another "positive poster" who has to resort to name-calling. I was hoping you were different.

It helps when you leave the part of the post with the point in the quote, but I will admit that I let a couple of guys take me down to their level with that.

The talking football part only works when the other side is willing to listen past what they need for their next argument.

I know. I'm not dogging you, Dep.

You are another guy who I got off to a rocky start with, but I really like your knowledge. You are football smart and I learn things from you. Hopefully, it's reciprocal.

Let's keep it real. And LOL.........I'm probably the last one to talk about not getting bent over irrational posts. Sorry man....

Yet you can call people liars and it's OK.

You did lie. Mack and Gipson were pro-bowl players. No poster made that up. It's a fact.

I never said they made it up go back and reread.

Mac are you a secret Steeler fan?

You do realize that the Steelers have gone downhill right?

Yes they can get to the playoffs because of a weak division. (The Ravens have gone down as well) Once there they lose because they can't afford a defense.

Here is a great idea. You hate the Browns FO and love the Steelers FO. Go down to your local Walmart and pick up some Black and Gold.

They will love your Big Brained posts there.

Take your own advice when you go to the Walmart and spend like crazy. You can buy your happiness there.

G.C.

How is anyone supposed to root for this team, when they can't even keep anybody around for 18 months!


I wasn't a fan of (name anybody) last year, because they weren't even with the team!


Do These, think us fans are brainwashed or have no memories!


Cuss words aren't expressive enough to show my anger!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most of the scouting reports pretty much be done by now? And whenever there is a regime change on any team, isn't it normal to terminate the contracts of some or all scouts to bring in those that you prefer?

I mean, we are just a few weeks away from their contracts being up anyway. this gives them time to catch on with another team.

I get the feeling this is more about making room for guys they want rather than a money saving thing. Afterall, they still have to pay these guys until their contracts are up.

j/c

I thought that Depodesta was here to help organize things.. not to implement Baseball Moneyball in the Browns.. but to set up and run an analytical department. The Baseball GM does not have the title of Football GM, but if the computer spreadsheets contain info such as "numbers of alchoholic beverages consumed on a weekly basis.. numbers of times showed up drunk at practice.. time spent studying film.." and gives a quantifiable ranking along with football related specs and comparisons.. I'm in favor of it. The draft is slotted.. moneyball plays no role in who gets paid what for draft choices. Let's see what happens before everyone goes crazy over suppositions..

JMHO

Wow! Really?

The Browns. Love and agree with everything they do or get the hell out?

Amazing....

Just pointing him in the direction he wants to go.

mac and I have had heated battles over the years. He's stubborn and he can have a one-track mind, but make no mistake, he's a Brown's fan.

Well, I for one am picking up what you are laying down.

The biggest impediment to this franchise getting back on track has not been that we don't spend enough money. It's that we haven't had a coherent, steady organization. There isn't a single player out there that you could give a ridiculous contract to that can compensate for a poor organizational structure.

I knew someone would bring up the "still time to catch on" angle.
Nobody is hiring scouts right now.Scouting contracts typically are on yearly basis beginning and ending after the draft.
I don't know how the scouts are paid,getting a paycheck weekly or yearly.
This is a dick move,plain and simple.
The only saving grace for these guys is that no one in the NFL will put much weight in the "Fired by the Harvard Boys" line on their resumes.

so we terminate expiring contracts... typically that saves no money on those contracts themselves, but somehow was money move.

I wonder how much more they are spending on this analytic strength program, to have different coaches and varying programs by positions?

If I remember right we signed about 6 strength coaches. We just let 6 scouts go. Coincidence?

I Googled "fired scouts" and came up with numerous instances of multiple scouts being fired at odd times. I'm too lazy to copy and paste them all with links. Anyone can Google it.

It's out of the norm since most scouts contracts end after the draft. Out of the norm but not unheard of. When it does happen there must be a reason and I'm certain it's not always money motivated.

Since so many think it's so unusual I'm sure one or more of the fine sports journalists will dig into it to find more information for us.